• The Design of Dead Space - Game Maker's Toolkit (Pt1)
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[QUOTE=gudman;52176406]I liked that Isaac learned to talk. It was just straight up weird to me in DS1 how Isaac wasn't interacting with the world and other characters, especially considering the nature of most of 'conversations' in the game (video chat of them monologuing at you). Isaac didn't feel like an 'insert yourself' kind of character because he had other crewmembers and a personal motive (Nicole) separate from the player. I consider it to just be a weird design choice that devs corrected with the sequel. Having Isaac give absolutely no reaction towards scripted sequences and plot events was uncanny, and not in a good way to me. Sure, he's not the most interesting kind of guy out there, although I kind of liked his evolution between DS2 and DS3, he's more than a silent protagonist. Silent protags can't have personal motives and agendas by definition.[/QUOTE] I have to agree, the idea that a silent protagonist automatically makes a game more immersive never made sense to me. I'd much rather be controlling a fleshed out character I can get to know than a voiceless meat puppet, at least in a linear third person action/horror game. [editline]2nd May 2017[/editline] Would Resident Evil 4 be more immersive if Leon never said anything and people just monologued at him? No, people love that game partially because Leon is constantly spouting dumb one liners that don't really work.
[QUOTE=gudman;52176406]I liked that Isaac learned to talk. It was just straight up weird to me in DS1 how Isaac wasn't interacting with the world and other characters, especially considering the nature of most of 'conversations' in the game (video chat of them monologuing at you). Isaac didn't feel like an 'insert yourself' kind of character because he had other crewmembers and a personal motive (Nicole) separate from the player. I consider it to just be a weird design choice that devs corrected with the sequel. Having Isaac give absolutely no reaction towards scripted sequences and plot events was uncanny, and not in a good way to me. Sure, he's not the most interesting kind of guy out there, although I kind of liked his evolution between DS2 and DS3, he's more than a silent protagonist. Silent protags can't have personal motives and agendas by definition.[/QUOTE] you can have more complex silent protagonists if you're willing to put a lot of effort into it, just look at DOOM 2016. the point is the stuff that's interesting to me about Isaac mostly goes unsaid, at least by him, while a lot of his actual lines in 2 and 3 are stuff like "okay i'll go do the thing" or "hey villain you should stop your evil plan." he might not be an entirely blank slate but for the most part you're already thinking the things he says, which i feel is a bit redundant when 90% of his more interesting lines are left to the hallucinations and supplementary things anyway. basically i feel like the games should have been more like the kindergarten and Ishimura sections in DS2. Isaac says little to nothing in both those areas, but he still visibly and audibly reacts to stuff, and has Nicole putting things into more interesting terms than "wow an exploding baby just tried to kill me!"
[QUOTE=Cone;52177030]you can have more complex silent protagonists if you're willing to put a lot of effort into it, just look at DOOM 2016. the point is the stuff that's interesting to me about Isaac mostly goes unsaid, at least by him, while a lot of his actual lines in 2 and 3 are stuff like "okay i'll go do the thing" or "hey villain you should stop your evil plan." he might not be an entirely blank slate but for the most part you're already thinking the things he says, which i feel is a bit redundant when 90% of his more interesting lines are left to the hallucinations and supplementary things anyway. basically i feel like the games should have been more like the kindergarten and Ishimura sections in DS2. Isaac says little to nothing in both those areas, but he still visibly and audibly reacts to stuff, and has Nicole putting things into more interesting terms than "wow an exploding baby just tried to kill me!"[/QUOTE] My point is that Isaac learning to speak, even if he says things that the player already thinks anyway most of the time, doesn't detract from the experience and enhances it in certain parts. Isaac isn't really the centre of the narrative anyway, so him being complex or not isn't all that important, I think.
Isaac saying what the player's probably already got in mind arguably is more relatable than a guy that doesn't say a word to anyone as he yells in pain and when crushing alien zombie skulls.
While I think he was a little harsh on 2 in this one I agree with the stuff about the pacing. How you just find a room full of goons just chilling out in the middle of a necromorph infested church was always strange.
[QUOTE=gudman;52177119]My point is that Isaac learning to speak, even if he says things that the player already thinks anyway most of the time, doesn't detract from the experience and enhances it in certain parts. Isaac isn't really the centre of the narrative anyway, so him being complex or not isn't all that important, I think.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=RikohZX;52177153]Isaac saying what the player's probably already got in mind arguably is more relatable than a guy that doesn't say a word to anyone as he yells in pain and when crushing alien zombie skulls.[/QUOTE] it's not so much about being immersive as i just prefer it from a characterization standpoint. i liked how in DS1 he just screams and shouts and breathes heavily, like he's mentally retreating to a point where he can't even talk right - you can feel the PTSD developing and non-essential parts of his brain shutting down. i think that both makes him more unique as a character and also makes the situation seem a lot more brutal and vicious, when even your protagonist is hunched over and dismembering things and roaring like a monster.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52177153]Isaac saying what the player's probably already got in mind arguably is more relatable than a guy that doesn't say a word to anyone as he yells in pain and when crushing alien zombie skulls.[/QUOTE] IMO it kind of fits considering Issac is almost always alone in the otherwise quiet and claustrophobic corridors of the ship, and this is the first time he's had to deal with the necromorph threat. If I were in his position, id likely stay dead silent too. I mean, he still reacts to things, just mostly through animation rather than voice.
[QUOTE=ntzu;52177877]IMO it kind of fits considering Issac is almost always alone in the otherwise quiet and claustrophobic corridors of the ship, and this is the first time he's had to deal with the necromorph threat. If I were in his position, id likely stay dead silent too. I mean, he still reacts to things, just mostly through animation rather than voice.[/QUOTE] I think the only animated reaction that isn't a stagger or covering his face is at the end when he finally watches the recording to the end. Silent Protagonist games work when the voice of reason prevails, or what's being said sounds like it'll lead to good gameplay. "Hey, let's go play with the gravity gun" is more likely to engage a player playing a Silent Protagonist than "Huh, Tram-rail's offline, Isaac can you take a look at that?" Isaac had to be voiced in the second game, and the writing for him was good and the VA delivered it fantastically. There wasn't a point when Isaac was saying something that I didn't feel I wouldn't have said. Sarcastic "Great's" felt appropriate when Ellie says "least you don't have to go through medical!". Within the narrative of DS2 being the series' Aliens to DS1 Alien, it made sense for Isaac to push back and have a bit of fight in him. It's not like he's some kickass Rambo all of a sudden, you're powerless against Nicole after all, but this isn't your first Necromorph outbreak and Isaac is still afraid, but he knows he can handle it.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlW0siaOjAE[/media] Really good hardcore run of Dead Space 2, made me reinstall.
[QUOTE=Cone;52158337]"why did you make it actiony" doesn't necessarily imply that Dead Space was ever scary, just that the horror theme made it more fun than it would have been as a straight action game. like the necromorphs were never scary, but they're cool enemies because they're super gross and imaginative, and their disfigured design informs how you fight them. but then your first enemy in DS3 looks like this guy [thumb]https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/deadspace/images/9/9d/Scaf_pilot_fodder.png/revision/latest?cb=20161108190744[/thumb] and he just comes at you with a regular old axe and he dies with a headshot and it's just like "really?"[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know about the third game, but 1 and 2 (especially 1 though) had this feel of dread around the place. This feel that something paranormal was afoot, and not just some generic space zombie shit going on. You get to see this first hand with stuff like the woman crying over the dead mangled person at the hospital, the marine with the severed leg in his arms, the doctor that saws a guy up before killing herself, and so on. There obviously is the generic space zombie stuff in it, but you sense that theres something else behind it. Something slightly paranormal, and that gives a good feeling to it.
Final part [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edcBLDNR2Ig[/media]
Oh my god, he nailed it so well at the end there. [vid]https://u.nya.is/mvlnya.webm[/vid]
I gotta be honest, and while i wish no ill will on the general employees, i wouldn't be that upset of EA shut down entirely. It's gotten to be such a nuisance of a company, because while you've got situations like Bioware's slow decline or Ubisoft's explosive downfall, EA's been a thorn in the industries side for a long time now. I don't know about anyone else, but when i hear about EA being involved in a new IP or getting their mitts on a new company, i always wonder how far it'll go becore they inevitably mangle it, or if it'll even get off the ground to begin with. So many great people capable of making great games lost in the meddling sea of EA. Maybe that's just me though.
[QUOTE=StrawberryClock;52157929]Good example of how Dead Space manages to stay fresh despite how old it is: [twitch]RudeBadWaffleDoggo[/twitch] I think it's the only time you intentionally get jumped when you're on a bench in the game. On my last playthrough (years ago on the Xbox 360 when I was a wee lad) I never used that bench and I never got attacked because of it. There a lot of moments like that where you get unique encounters that don't get repeated which keeps you guessing. I mean heck, the reason I turn around there is because of the whole "sometimes you get a silent necromorph sneaking up behind you" thing which I think only happens a 4th or a 5th of the time.[/QUOTE] DS2 has a scene like this where right as you open a save station, you hear a necromorph blast open a vent shaft right behind you while you're stuck in the save screen.
While he completely nailed the overview on the head, he also contradicted the hell out of himself in regards to his entire tone and take on DS2. If he's going to do broad editorials along with his usual mechanical and thematic expositionals, he definitely needs to practice more on differentiating his tone and diction to fit each separate venue better.
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