Music? Is this generation making shit music, or are people not looking hard enough? - General

[QUOTE=Bobie;34715456]this man actually believes this stare in wonder, it is true[/QUOTE] it's funny because it is true you must be blind to believe so [editline]15th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;34715327]I just wanted your opinion on it, but since you're unethically biased, I have nothing else to say to you. But we can talk about classical music if you wish: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/threads/1100123[/url][/QUOTE] sure it's a nice song, but technically and constructively it does not compare.

It's quite simple, really. Turn off the radio and spend time researching new artists. There is a fuckton of great stuff coming out right now.

[QUOTE=redBadger;34715975] sure it's a nice song, but technically and constructively it does not compare.[/QUOTE] Sure.

[QUOTE=AK'z;34715515]Most classical music experts ramble on about how [I]technically[/I] awesome it is. But they almost never comment on the experience or how they feel. It depresses me to think that such people who dedicate their lives to this music, have nothing more to say about it. Where are the classical music discussions elsewhere? Seriously where are they, are they hiding from me?[/QUOTE] listening to new forms of music might... CAUSE YOU TO LIKE IT AND FEEL JOY OH NO

[QUOTE=redBadger;34715277]the beach boys don't even compare to the number of songs bach, mozart, handel, etc. wrote. The number of songs classical musicians wrote, each being just as accurate and logical as the last, is astronomical. The BWV catalog for bach has 1,127 pieces in it. Mozart is around 600. It's doubtful that anyone nowadays can compare. Music and logic nowadays are going down the drain. Most people ignore rules and just plop notes on a page and experiment with how things sound and just go for it. Classical masterminds crafted their music with great, incomparable precision.[/QUOTE] There's a quote from Johann Joseph Fux's Gradus Ad Parnassum, a great book on theory, that I think applies here. "I do not believe that I can call back composers from the unrestrained insanity of their writing to normal standards." Gradus Ad Parnassum was published in 1725. red, you've posted a lot in the MGR and other music threads telling people that they're terrible at music if they're not able to compose works mimicking those of the great baroque and classical masters. Music evolves and is part of our culture. To say that there is only one correct form is fallacious. I try not to assume, but every time you post these types of replies I can just imagine you attending a concert of the Rite of Spring or one of Mahler's symphonies and shaking your head in disgust at the "abomination" of music being played out before you. Also, the "volume of works" argument doesn't make much sense. Besides romantic composers like Liszt far surpassing Mozart in the number of works written, by that logic Beethoven would be considered a terrible musician with his mere nine symphonies. All music is just organized sound. Whether you write in a baroque style, a minimalist style, or a post-modernist one, it's still music. If you don't connect to or appreciate a form of music, listen to more of it and try to write in the style, don't reject it outright. I'm by no means a master in the field of music (nor do I ever hope to be, one of the joys of composition and performance is never ending growth), but it seems that one of the best ways to learn and improve is to push yourself outside of your comfortable area.

what about Avant-Garde? Surely you won't dismiss that in favour of the "technical" stuff.

[QUOTE=redBadger;34714995]Music in this generation, for the most part, has no logic or actual musicality put into it at all. Let's look at something like this: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpqm1hxgH-w[/media] Name one contemporary piece that can compare to logic of this. Everything Bach, and other composers of their generations wrote took time, patience, and logic. Nowadays, musicians can rely on electronics to hide their 'talent' and to create nice beats for them in a few weeks. Everything musicians did in the past was constructed with every brick in the right spot. Granted Bach did have to hand-write all his pieces, but the actual performance base of the music relied on everyone's cooperation to know their part perfectly.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJk69zvgBhU[/media]

[QUOTE=redBadger;34715975]it's funny because it is true you must be blind to believe so [editline]15th February 2012[/editline] sure it's a nice song, but technically and constructively it does not compare.[/QUOTE] Why is it that you think music is improved by its technicality and construction? Art is about emotion. I couldn't care less if a song was in 4/4 and used 2 chords if it was sincere and expressive.

is it really? Personally, I have to go with Technicality instead of "Emotion"

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719339]is it really? Personally, I have to go with Technicality instead of "Emotion"[/QUOTE] Why? [editline]16th February 2012[/editline] Because if it's because you get to see how well some huge black shirted man can wank around on a guitar, that's closer to mathematics than it is art.

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719339]is it really? Personally, I have to go with Technicality instead of "Emotion"[/QUOTE] well music is art, and art is the spontaneous overflow of emotion. Even stuff like Bach and Mozart would be nothing without the feeling they put into making it, it'd just be notes on paper

I just get along more with the technical aspect of music Doesn't help the fact that the media has bullshited us exagerating the aspect of emotion in a piece of music, leaving behind the complexity

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719456]I just get along more with the technical aspect of music Doesn't help the fact that the media has bullshited us exagerating the aspect of emotion in a piece of music, leaving behind the complexity[/QUOTE] the media? you mean people. no-one gives a shit about how complex something is unless they are deluded musicians who don't realize that the ability to play harmonic minor in A flat across the fretboard doesn't mean they can write songs. of course anyone can appreciate the complexity of something, but the emotion of a piece is so much more important. hence why we remember Mozart. his pieces are not complex at all, yet they harbour a lot of emotion.

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719456]I just get along more with the technical aspect of music Doesn't help the fact that the media has bullshited us exagerating the aspect of emotion in a piece of music, leaving behind the complexity[/QUOTE] fair enough, but they aren't exaggerating the aspect of emotion at all. When people make art it's about emotion, otherwise it won't be good art. It's really obvious in works like the downward spiral by nine inch nails where the emotions are so intertwined it's impossible to avoid, but even in stuff like porcupine tree's discography they're putting their heart and soul into the track. The complexity is birthed out of the emotion.

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719420]art is the spontaneous overflow of emotion.[/QUOTE] By definition, Art is [url=http://www.answers.com/topic/art]applied aesthetics[/url], Doesn't matter what approach it uses(Technical or a More Emotional approach) but the objective is to sound good

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719517]By definition, Art is [url=http://www.answers.com/topic/art]applied aesthetics[/url], Doesn't matter what approach it uses(Technical or a More Emotional approach) but the objective is to sound good[/QUOTE] okay, I get what you're trying to say, but I'm an artist. I write poetry, I'm in a band, and I work in watercolours as well. Nothing I have ever made was created simply out of a desire to achieve technical perfection or complexity, otherwise I would be an engineer or something. No artists I know of work in a technical approach either, basically all art comes from emotion and thought. No one just goes 'I'm going to make some cool sounding because reasons' otherwise they'd never get anywhere

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719510]even in stuff like porcupine tree's discography they're putting their heart and soul into the track. The complexity is birthed out of the emotion.[/QUOTE] ehhhh not the best example. a lot of the times porcupine tree indulges themselves a little too far for my liking to the point of where it becomes wank material like Dream Theater. i prefer radiohead, hah.

[QUOTE=thisispain;34719551]ehhhh not the best example. a lot of the times porcupine tree indulges themselves a little too far for my liking to the point of where it becomes wank material like Dream Theater. i prefer radiohead, hah.[/QUOTE] I actually was going to write radiohead but I changed it to Porcupine tree because I figure they care more about the technicality than Thom yorke does heh. As long as he keeps dancing like that he can hit bin lids with dead cats for all I care

[QUOTE=thisispain;34719551]ehhhh not the best example. a lot of the times porcupine tree indulges themselves a little too far for my liking to the point of where it becomes wank material like Dream Theater. i prefer radiohead, hah.[/QUOTE] finally someone on FP who isn't riding steven wilson's dick, thankyou [editline]16th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719574]I actually was going to write radiohead but I changed it to Porcupine tree because I figure they care more about the technicality than Thom yorke does heh. As long as he keeps dancing like that he can hit bin lids with dead cats for all I care[/QUOTE] thom yorke makes far more complex music than wilson

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719574]I actually was going to write radiohead but I changed it to Porcupine tree because I figure they care more about the technicality than Thom yorke does heh.[/QUOTE] well that certainly is true. i think they've cared more and more as time goes on. some of early stuff is childishly simple and pretty memorable while their latest stuff seems to be along the lines of prog metal.

if people have to look hard then the majority of the generation must be shit

[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;34719602]finally someone on FP who isn't riding steven wilson's dick, thankyou[/QUOTE] i've been here for ages, calm down hahha [QUOTE=Nibwoddle;34719602]thom yorke makes far more complex music than wilson[/QUOTE] but he doesn't care too much about it as in he doesn't make stuff designed to show complexity and chops.

[QUOTE=Nibwoddle;34719602] thom yorke makes far more complex music than wilson[/QUOTE] no doubt, but I guess I meant the complexity isn't really at the front of Yorke's mind, whereas being prog Porcupine tree would feel kind of obligated to get a bit complex.

[QUOTE=geogzm;34719613]if people have to look hard then the majority of the generation must be shit[/QUOTE] oh yeah typing in pitchfork or spin in your address bar so difficult

[QUOTE=geogzm;34719613]if people have to look hard then the majority of the generation must be shit[/QUOTE] no, the stuff that gets the most exposure by the media is. in the grand scheme of music the cash-in pop music is an absolute minority. and you don't even have to look hard, stuff like radiohead and kanye west are ridiculously popular and they are making excellent music. [editline]16th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;34719639]but he doesn't care too much about it as in he doesn't make stuff designed to show complexity and chops.[/QUOTE] i stand corrected, steven wilson has a much larger emphasis on [I]over[/I]production

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719550]okay, I get what you're trying to say, but I'm an artist. I write poetry, I'm in a band, and I work in watercolours as well. Nothing I have ever made was created simply out of a desire to achieve technical perfection or complexity, otherwise I would be an engineer or something. No artists I know of work in a technical approach either, basically all art comes from emotion and thought. No one just goes 'I'm going to make some cool sounding because reasons' otherwise they'd never get anywhere[/QUOTE] But think about it, you can't just said that you can't take any technical approach at all. well sure you can be pretty expresive with a 4/4, 4 chords song, but as an artist yourself, wouldn't you like to achieve a really high technical and complex degree while expressing all your emotions and feelings? Artists cannot diss' other artists because they want to express themselves in a technical way to be honest, it isn't all about the technical, but not all about the emotions either

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719704]But think about it, you can't just said that you can't take any technical approach at all. well sure you can be pretty expresive with a 4/4, 4 chords song, but as an artist yourself, wouldn't you like to achieve a really high technical and complex degree while expressing all your emotions and feelings? Artists cannot diss' other artists because they want to express themselves in a technical wave to be honest, it isn't all about the technical, but not all about the emotions either[/QUOTE] you can make a technical song, but if it isn't being fueled by emotion it just comes out as wanky self-indulgent bullshit

[QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719704]but as an artist yourself, wouldn't you like to achieve a really high technical and complex degree while expressing all your emotions and feelings? [/QUOTE] no because being technical and complex doesn't improve the song in anyway. if your song requires a 14/8 time signature then so be it but tacking it on just to add technicality and complexion is just overindulging and that makes any emotion and feeling feel indirect. it's like david byrne says, how am i supposed to believe a singer when they sing everything with beauty and sophistication?

[QUOTE=thisispain;34719755]no because being technical and complex doesn't improve the song in anyway. if your song requires a 14/8 time signature then so be it but tacking it on just to add technicality and complexion is just overindulging and that makes any emotion and feeling feel indirect. it's like david byrne says, how am i supposed to believe a singer when they sing everything with beauty and sophistication?[/QUOTE] this puts it better than I did

[QUOTE=strayebyrd;34719732]you can make a technical song, but if it isn't being fueled by emotion it just comes out as wanky self-indulgent bullshit[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ordigenius;34719704] Artists cannot diss' other artists because they want to express themselves in a technical way [/QUOTE] isn't open mindness a trait required for art anyway?