The Moron's Guide To Transhumanism, Human Enhancement And Why It's Fucking Awesome.
472 replies, posted
There's a difference between disability and lack of talent.
If someone is born with a physical disability, then they deserve the right to do what everyone else does. However, not having the talent for composing music or creating art is not a necessary ability. You don't need it to be successful. If you don't have natural talent, you can find a different job that better suits who you are as a person. To say "hurr its not fair some people can make good music while others struggle to create it" is just outright silly.
Talent and creativity drive the human species. However, if everyone becomes the same, then creativity effectively goes out the window. I mean, how can you be considered creative when everyone else could have easily thought of the same thing? Cultural progression would stagnate completely and we'd just become animals again.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;32115896]There's a difference between disability and lack of talent.
If someone is born with a physical disability, then they deserve the right to do what everyone else does. However, not having the talent for composing music or creating art is not a necessary ability. You don't need it to be successful. If you don't have natural talent, you can find a different job that better suits who you are as a person. To say "hurr its not fair some people can make good music while others struggle to create it" is just outright silly.
Talent and creativity drive the human species. However, if everyone becomes the same, then creativity effectively goes out the window. I mean, how can you be considered creative when everyone else could have easily thought of the same thing? Cultural progression would stagnate completely and we'd just become animals again.[/QUOTE]
Not just singing ability, what about the ability to do things like maths well? Or the ability to draw? Why should people be denied the life path they want to take just because they weren't born with certain abilities or circumstances that led to abilities.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;32115896]There's a difference between disability and lack of talent.
If someone is born with a physical disability, then they deserve the right to do what everyone else does. However, not having the talent for composing music or creating art is not a necessary ability. You don't need it to be successful. If you don't have natural talent, you can find a different job that better suits who you are as a person. To say "hurr its not fair some people can make good music while others struggle to create it" is just outright silly.
Talent and creativity drive the human species. However, if everyone becomes the same, then creativity effectively goes out the window. I mean, how can you be considered creative when everyone else could have easily thought of the same thing? Cultural progression would stagnate completely and we'd just become animals again.[/QUOTE]
you really don't know why artists do what they do, do you
Here's the skinny. Artists make art and creative shit [I]because they want to.[/I] They don't do it out of some misguided belief that they're going to redefine paint smearing or some shit. There is no such thing as an entirely original creation. Creativity will never "disappear" because it never had any pragmatic reason to exist in the first place.
And beyond [I]any[/I] of that, how would that in any way lead to us losing our fucking sentience? The hell did you even pull that from?
[editline]4th September 2011[/editline]
And as for creativity, it's not as magical as you think it is.
Pablo Picasso didn't pull cubism out of his ass. He stole a bunch of shit from African culture, combined it with a few other things, and then produced cubism. And the Africans who made the shit that he stole from? They stole from nature.
Nothing is entirely creative, and even right now, yes. Any idea you come up with could easily have been come up with by any other person. And it probably has.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;32115896]There's a difference between disability and lack of talent.
If someone is born with a physical disability, then they deserve the right to do what everyone else does. However, not having the talent for composing music or creating art is not a necessary ability. You don't need it to be successful. If you don't have natural talent, you can find a different job that better suits who you are as a person. To say "hurr its not fair some people can make good music while others struggle to create it" is just outright silly.
Talent and creativity drive the human species. However, if everyone becomes the same, then creativity effectively goes out the window. I mean, how can you be considered creative when everyone else could have easily thought of the same thing? Cultural progression would stagnate completely and we'd just become animals again.[/QUOTE]
If all people had the ability to get a creativity implant, someone would go out and make a better one.
Also,
[QUOTE]not having the talent for composing music or creating art is not a necessary ability[/QUOTE]
A lot of things we do aren't necessary. The same argument could be made for living with only the minimum possible.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32085472]what's wrong with that
no more dumb pricks trying to outdo each other, sounds good to me
[editline]3rd September 2011[/editline]
find me a person who can produce art after having grown up in a neutral vacuum
The only reason that we can make art is because we take in stimuli, combine it, and then spit it out. Art isn't the production of truly original content you know.[/QUOTE]
I never denied that. I'm not sure what that has to do with computers being superior to our minds though.
And actually, every piece of art ever created is an original piece [B]simply because no one else has produced it before[/B].
No art is exactly identical (short of direct plagiarism); therefore, it's original. All art is derivative, yes, but all art is [I]also[/I] original.
Originality doesn't come from the broken down parts; it comes from the whole of the work.
And this whole idea of a "creativity implant" doesn't even make sense. If everyone is creative, then the idea of creativity becomes meaningless.
[editline]4th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;32116270]If all people had the ability to get a creativity implant, someone would go out and make a better one.
Also,
A lot of things we do aren't necessary. The same argument could be made for living with only the minimum possible.[/QUOTE]
You can't make a "better creativity implant" because creative works are subjective. Any measurement of relative ability is meaningless when it comes to art.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;32116270]If all people had the ability to get a creativity implant, someone would go out and make a better one.
Also,
A lot of things we do aren't necessary. The same argument could be made for living with only the minimum possible.[/QUOTE]
Can the first creativity implant make you creative enough to design a better one!?
[QUOTE=Z3r0747;32117379]I never denied that. I'm not sure what that has to do with computers being superior to our minds though.
And actually, every piece of art ever created is an original piece [B]simply because no one else has produced it before[/B].
No art is exactly identical (short of direct plagiarism); therefore, it's original. All art is derivative, yes, but all art is [I]also[/I] original.
Originality doesn't come from the broken down parts; it comes from the whole of the work.
And this whole idea of a "creativity implant" doesn't even make sense. If everyone is creative, then the idea of creativity becomes meaningless.
[editline]4th September 2011[/editline]
You can't make a "better creativity implant" because creative works are subjective. Any measurement of relative ability is meaningless when it comes to art.[/QUOTE]
Don't fucking pussyfoot around the issue. The point is that "creativity" is just taking old things, combining them, and giving them a spin. It is not the process of creating new material, just slightly different views on the same material.
If you want to argue that all art is perfectly unique because all art is slightly different from every other piece of art, then fine. But understand that if you do that the word "unique" loses all meaning.
The only people who care about transhumanism are losers unhappy with their lives. Sorry, but it's true.
[QUOTE=Neolithic v2;32117990]The only people who care about transhumanism are losers unhappy with their lives. Sorry, but it's true.[/QUOTE]
Haha, no.
I wish I could sedate people I don't like with amphetamines and and give them each lobotomies in my basement.
[QUOTE=Rick Ross;32118082]I wish I could sedate people I don't like with amphetamines and and give them each lobotomies in my basement.[/QUOTE]
Amphetamine (USAN) or amfetamine (INN) is a psychostimulant drug of the phenethylamine class which produces [B]increased wakefulness and focus[/B] in association with decreased fatigue and appetite.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32118058]Haha, no.[/QUOTE]So basically what you're saying is that you disagree? Ok, I guess. Copying an often used response doesn't make you seem any smarter though.
[QUOTE=Neolithic v2;32117990]The only people who care about the [b]progression of medical technology[/b] are losers unhappy with their lives. Sorry, but it's true.[/QUOTE]
Is what I read.
Why do assholes like you just pop into threads like these and make inflammatory claims with no argumentative backing? Isn't that also known as trolling, which is a bannable offense?
[QUOTE=Neolithic v2;32118277]So basically what you're saying is that you disagree? Ok, I guess. Copying an often used response doesn't make you seem any smarter though.[/QUOTE]
How else do you expect me too respond to such a stupid comment.
[QUOTE=Supacasey;32118343]Is what I read.
Why do assholes like you just pop into threads like these and make inflammatory claims with no argumentative backing? Isn't that also known as trolling, which is a bannable offense?[/QUOTE]suck my augmented dick
seriously though this is all very fascinating, although I can't imagine in what manner society would function if we all had "[B]un[/B]hibited consciousness"
[QUOTE=Neolithic v2;32118388]suck my augmented dick
seriously though this is all very fascinating, although I can't imagine in what manner society would function if we all had "inhibited consciousness"[/QUOTE]
well i imagine very badly
enjoy being considered a lower human when you have bad genes etc. for augmentations and cant have them or whatever (if peoples bodies actually reject augs or something like in deus ex)
babies will undergo genetical therapy so their bodies accept augs and poor people cant afford them etc.
[QUOTE=TheForeigner;32118546]enjoy being considered a lower human when you have bad genes etc. for augmentations and cant have them or whatever (if peoples bodies actually reject augs or something like in deus ex)
babies will undergo genetical therapy so their bodies accept augs and poor people cant afford them etc.[/QUOTE]
It may be like that for a while, but eventually it will be available to most people.
[QUOTE=TheForeigner;32118546]enjoy being considered a lower human when you have bad genes etc. for augmentations and cant have them or whatever (if peoples bodies actually reject augs or something like in deus ex)
babies will undergo genetical therapy so their bodies accept augs and poor people cant afford them etc.[/QUOTE]
Rejection assumes the augmentations are trans or subdermal. As far as prosthesis go, that doesn't have to be the case. As far as actual augmentations though, that's so far off it's a moot point right now.
I think the surgical procedure & attachment will be more expensive than the actual augmentations. Not in the first years, but slightly later on.
[QUOTE=MaverickIB;32053713]You see, I just don't think that's going to be possible for an extremely long time, if ever.
Mastering a profession or whatever is about far more than just knowing shit. I mean, you could have all the information in the world about quantum physics implanted into your brain and still be a shit quantum physicist. Why? Because true knowledge is knowing how to apply what you know, not just knowing it for the sake of knowing it. You could be able to calculate numbers in a split second but still get stumped on a problem because you don't know which formula to use.
So if a chip or whatever were to actually be useful, it'd have to not only provide knowledge but also interface with our abilities to use that knowledge with logic and reason. Something like that would need to be so intricate and advanced that there's no way people would pour the resources into developing it. Schooling people and choosing the candidates that pick up on it will remain the cheapest solution.
Implants that affect things like reflexes, balance, stress management, and whatnot are all plausible. Implants that somehow make you a genius at a certain field of study are not. It just isn't as simple as putting all the information in your brain and ta-da, you're a genius. That's kind of like saying you're a martial arts master just because you know everything there is about a certain art. 10 bucks says when it's time to actually practice it, you won't have a clue what the fuck you're doing. Same exact concept with any other subject, being knowledgeable does not equate to being proficient.[/QUOTE]
So you're saying that reading a car manual and saying you can fix that car, does not compare to having fixed the car ten times? Of course. But dude, we're dealing with hypotheticals, entirely. If you can assume that you can put a textbook's worth of information in a brain, you should also assume you can put what 10 pounds of cylinder head feels like in your hand, or the subtle adjustments that a carburetor needs that a veteran mechanic would know, into your brain. Yes, downloadable experience.
I'm a shitty writer and that's probably hard to read :v:
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
ffs i need to be more active in here
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
To further illustrate my point:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ7Ww3rd06c&feature=youtu.be&t=28s[/media]
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;32064612]Except one treats the brain as circuitry and the other as soup.[/QUOTE]
Mind altering substances do a lot more than just beat your brain till it sees stars. They trigger certain chemical producing glands so you see stars :pwn:
The human body, as is, is 100 times more practical than any prosthesis or anything ever created so far..
But binoculars for example are "more practical" than eyes.. You can zoom and look out to great distances, but still the human eye can see all the way to the horizon, can see at a 180 degree angle and stuff.
So uhh.. I don't really care much for installing a mechanical arm or whatever the fuck to your body to have "super strength" because humans can be very strong anyway. I guess my point is that shit like Deus Ex is just ridiculous and you shouldn't be concerned about shit like that.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32125248]The human body, as is, is 100 times more practical than any prosthesis or anything ever created so far..
But binoculars for example are "more practical" than eyes.. You can zoom and look out to great distances, but still the human eye can see all the way to the horizon, can see at a 180 degree angle and stuff.
So uhh.. I don't really care much for installing a mechanical arm or whatever the fuck to your body to have "super strength" because humans can be very strong anyway. I guess my point is that shit like Deus Ex is just ridiculous and you shouldn't be concerned about shit like that.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but to get strong you have to dedicate your entire life to being strong, transhumanism would make none lethal self defence much easier.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32125571]Yeah but to get strong you have to dedicate your entire life to being strong, transhumanism would make none lethal self defence much easier.[/QUOTE]
Or have a huge burst of adrenalin.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32125571]Yeah but to get strong you have to dedicate your entire life to being strong, transhumanism would make none lethal self defence much easier.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about you, but I'll always admire the man who dedicated his life to being strong more than than the guy who bought a new set of mechanical arms and became 10 times as strong.
People want it but they don't want to work for it.
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
A little irrelevant, but that's just what I thought
[QUOTE=Chrille;32125628]I don't know about you, but I'll always admire the man who dedicated his life to being strong more than than the guy who bought a new set of mechanical arms and became 10 times as strong.
People want it but they don't want to work for it.
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
A little irrelevant, but that's just what I thought[/QUOTE]
Who said anything about admiration? It would allow him to out perform a normal human which is reward enough to me.
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=sltungle;32125595]Or have a huge burst of adrenalin.[/QUOTE]
Even then you would still have much limitation.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32125699]Who said anything about admiration? It would allow him to out perform a normal human which is reward enough to me.[/QUOTE]
That was exactly my point. You get to reap the rewards and not do any of the work.
You crave all this superhuman stuff yet you aren't even willing to push your real body to its max.
Yeah yeah exactly, being augmented having wires and prostheses around your body vs. being a decent sized, strong man?
[QUOTE=Chrille;32125796]That was exactly my point. You get to reap the rewards and not do any of the work.
You crave all this superhuman stuff yet you aren't even willing to push your real body to its max.[/QUOTE]
Money doesn't appear out of thin air, it would take effort to get the money to buy this stuff. Plus some people are just physically incapable of achieving it and just get lorded over by those who are stronger.
[editline]5th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32126627]Yeah yeah exactly, being augmented having wires and prostheses around your body vs. being a decent sized, strong man?[/QUOTE]
Prostheses would likely be far superior to the natural counter part.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32127314]Money doesn't appear out of thin air, it would take effort to get the money to buy this stuff.[/QUOTE]
How is it even the same? That's like saying you should get a really high salary because you've been working out a lot and it took a huge effort. You dedicate yourself to a certain skill and get better, you improve yourself. If you just buy the end result you skip the entire process, which [i]in my opinion[/i] is the lesser mans alternative.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32127314]Plus some people are just physically incapable of achieving it and just get lorded over by those who are stronger.[/QUOTE]
If you're crippled or something, in which case bionic legs or arms would be your only choice.
So I repeat; you crave all this superhuman stuff yet you aren't even willing to push your real body to its max.
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