The Moron's Guide To Transhumanism, Human Enhancement And Why It's Fucking Awesome. - General - Facepunch Forum

The Moron's Guide To Transhumanism, Human Enhancement And Why It's Fucking Awesome.

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[QUOTE=LuaChobo;31997862]A calculator[/QUOTE] I think you misunderstood the question

[QUOTE=The one that is;31997318]At above. So you're saying that because I don't want to be a cyborg I will have to be left behind and made poor based entirely on the fact that I do not wish to have a doctor cut my body apart and piece it together with machines. That's stupid as hell and I hope you look back on your post and realise that. That's basicaly saying you're all for having a class based society where the poor are those who choose to not be augmented. You're an idiot. Plus consider the idea that someone might get ahold of technology capable of setting off an EMP or something, your augments are now fucked and you're probably fucked as well. Or maybe they run a magnet over your head and your hard drive augmented brain suddenly turns into mush and you become a useless husk, fun huh?[/QUOTE] Your simultaneous fear and anger are amusing to me.

Also the magnets aren't really powerful enough to fuck with any handheld electronics. From what I've read people can even handle credit cards without accidentally demagnetizing them.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;31997942]If people can do it, people will do it. Human calculators would be hired for universities and schools so they could explain how they got to the answer, rather than just answering it.[/QUOTE] All calculators do is add 2 + 2. They are merely tools, nothing more. The people that use them already explain how they got the answer. For example, a calculator couldn't come up with Pythagorean theorem- a human did, and he explained how he got it over and over again until it became proven. You know why the calculator gets the answer it does when you put it in there, otherwise you never would have put it in there in the first place!

Human calculators would just streamline the math process. We wouldn't need calculators to calculate. A calculator aug would just be like an "app" for your body, you wouldn't really need it but it would sure make things easier.

Also to the people complaining about how it would be very painful blah blah they numb their hand by wearing a rubber glove (to keep hand from getting wrinkled and wet) and sticking it into ice until they can't feel any longer. It eliminates practically all pain

double posting what is this black magic

I don't know I'm as half confused as you are. Auto merge halp us all

Why would anyone 'donate' to this? I mean I can see the usefulness for disabled people but for the grand majority is a very bad idea. Imagine if something like a solar flare happened to hit the earth or an EMP happened to explode, are those really gonna work anymore? I see a lot of people talking about getting their brain replaced with mechanical parts, yeah, have fun not working anymore. There's nothing indicating in our genetic code we need more (considering most of our DNA isn't even activated and is starting to, meaning we probably have natural powers.)

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;31997769] what practical application would ever apply for that?[/QUOTE]High school and/or college.

Shit-storm inbound.

Emper you realize what en EMP does right? If people replaced their brains with mechanical parts an EMP would do nothing haha especially because if your brain was mechanical it wouldn't be capable of jack shit. I think you meant something else

I didn't mean to replace your brain fully. I meant by replacing certain parts of your brain with computer chips etc.

[QUOTE=Godrek;31998225]Emper you realize what en EMP does right? If people replaced their brains with mechanical parts an EMP would do nothing haha especially because if your brain was mechanical it wouldn't be capable of jack shit. I think you meant something else[/QUOTE] two new users with minimal posts also, an electro-magnetic pulse could fry computer chips an stuff, they'd need a way to protect the stuff fromthat

[QUOTE=The one that is;31997318]At above. So you're saying that because I don't want to be a cyborg I will have to be left behind and made poor based entirely on the fact that I do not wish to have a doctor cut my body apart and piece it together with machines.[/quote] 'Poor'? Poor relative to what, exactly? Relative to people who decided they did want to do that, yeah, you probably would be paid less because you aren't as productive. That's how the world works right now, it would just be more obvious. The difference between then and now, though, is you'd have a choice. You could choose to be less well off if it means keeping your 'purity', if there is such a thing, there's a lot of people today, I bet, that wish they had that choice. [QUOTE=The one that is;31997318]That's basicaly saying you're all for having a class based society where the poor are those who choose to not be augmented.[/quote] Once again, poor relative to what? They would be far better off than before augmented people existed, just not as well off as augmented people themselves. Life would be better for them, indirectly, by doing absolutely nothing. The more one person can do the more the entire society benefits as a result, it takes far less people to manufacture cars, therefore, more people have cars and even those without cars reap the benefits of economic productivity being multiplied. Another example, due to the automation of computers people can do many things far more quickly. It's called the 'information age' for a reason and yes, people who don't own a computer benefit immensely from computers as well. [QUOTE=The one that is;31997318]Plus consider the idea that someone might get ahold of technology capable of setting off an EMP or something, your augments are now fucked and you're probably fucked as well. Or maybe they run a magnet over your head and your hard drive augmented brain suddenly turns into mush and you become a useless husk, fun huh?[/QUOTE] Well being that devices exist that can kill all of humanity right now I don't see that as much of a problem. We might as well give up humanity and kill ourselves if somebody can launch a bunch of nukes and kill us all, right? I mean, as long as we're fucked and all.

[QUOTE=Emper;31998251]I didn't mean to replace your brain fully. I meant by replacing certain parts of your brain with computer chips etc.[/QUOTE] Go Google how an EMP works and what it would effect and why.

[QUOTE=Godrek;31998010]Human calculators would just streamline the math process. We wouldn't need calculators to calculate. A calculator aug would just be like an "app" for your body, you wouldn't really need it but it would sure make things easier.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Godrek;31998037]Also to the people complaining about how it would be very painful blah blah they numb their hand by wearing a rubber glove (to keep hand from getting wrinkled and wet) and sticking it into ice until they can't feel any longer. It eliminates practically all pain[/QUOTE] DOUBLE POST AUGMENTATION THEY'RE AMONG US HANZERS CAUSED 9/11 HITLER WAS AUGMENTED

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;31997972]All calculators do is add 2 + 2. They are merely tools, nothing more. The people that use them already explain how they got the answer. For example, a calculator couldn't come up with Pythagorean theorem- a human did, and he explained how he got it over and over again until it became proven. You know why the calculator gets the answer it does when you put it in there, otherwise you never would have put it in there in the first place![/QUOTE] Tell that to the guys who proved any Rubik's cube position can be solved in 20 turns or less using a computer. [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] And anyway, your brain is nothing but a complex biological computer. There's no reason a powerful enough computer could not prove new theorems.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;31998547]Tell that to the guys who proved any Rubik's cube position can be solved in 20 turns or less using a computer.[/QUOTE] There IS a pattern to solving a rubik's cube- the guys who made the program understood what this pattern was and figured out a way to make the computer do this. So all the computer is doing is putting in numbers to a formula and making an action based on the result.

I don't have any problem with mechanical augmentation, as it wouldn't likely be worth getting for considering the pay of physical labor type jobs. What worries me is mental augmentation accelerating to the point where one model is orders of magnitude greater than the last one, and the unaugmented or those with outdated augmentation would be like animals to those with the most powerful minds.

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;31998606]There IS a pattern to solving a rubik's cube- the guys who made the program understood what this pattern was and figured out a way to make the computer do this. So all the computer is doing is putting in numbers to a formula and making an action based on the result.[/QUOTE] No because the optimal algorithm is complex enough that it can't possibly be memorized by normal humans.

Transhumanism is a joke, just live your goddam life without wanting to fuck aliens with a robot dick

Dear lord I tried watching that video but it makes me cringe [editline]29th August 2011[/editline] Why would you even do that, it is bound to be infected

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;31998649]No because the optimal algorithm is complex enough that it can't possibly be memorized by normal humans.[/QUOTE] someone had to tell the computer what to do it's not like you can place a computer and a rubik's cube in the same room together and expect the computer to solve it without any prior instruction

[QUOTE=Carbo;31998695]Transhumanism is a joke, just live your goddam life without wanting to fuck aliens with a robot dick[/QUOTE] I'd imagine it was people like you back in the dark ages that said the same thing about medicinal research. Good luck trying to deny collective curiosity.

[QUOTE=Ac!dL3ak;31998729]someone had to tell the computer what to do it's not like you can place a computer and a rubik's cube in the same room together and expect the computer to solve it without any prior instruction[/QUOTE] But that's not the issue because then you can make the same case that a human is instructed by its environment on how to prove things mathematically as well and whether a computer or not becomes irrelevant. Also: [quote]Attempts have also been made in the area of artificial intelligence research to create smaller, explicit, new proofs of mathematical theorems from the bottom up using machine reasoning techniques such as heuristic search. Such automated theorem provers have proved a number of new results and found new proofs for known theorems. Additionally, interactive proof assistants allow mathematicians to develop human-readable proofs which are nonetheless formally verified for correctness. Since these proofs are generally human-surveyable (albeit with difficulty, as with the proof of the Robbins conjecture) they do not share the controversial implications of computer-aided proofs-by-exhaustion.[/quote]

I think some of the people in this thread are missing the point. Yes, these 'grinders' may be reckless, but they are pioneering future advancements in augmentation themselves. They are the core of the system that will bring us forward. Engineers and Scientists are the ones who will refine and improve upon these base augmentations, and then the public at large will get their hands on them. As augmentation technology improves, scientists and engineers will continue to innovate traditionally (improving on what they have, while occasionally making a breakthrough), while 'grinders' will go the opposite way, finding the niche routes, uses, and improvements for the newly refined augmentations designed by the scientists and engineers. And the cycle repeats itself (hopefully) infinitely. These risk takers, are our future. They can change the way we look at augmentations, and therefor, can change the entire landscape of the field.

This topic has come up before, so I'll just echo the general gist of my previous comments: Too many people are leaping on the transhumanism train and embracing technologies that just aren't ready, or indulging in ridiculously speculative predictions about what technology will and will not be able to do. At the most basic level, many of the mundane implants people propose are already covered by handheld objects. For example, sunglasses. Do you really need retracting sunglass implants a la Deus Ex? It's far more expensive, more permanent, and more likely to screw up with additional complications than just a cheap pair of sunglasses. If anyone actually willingly undergoes such a procedure, it will be for the sheer novelty, not because of any additional practicality over boringly mundane technology. Transhumanism already exists to a degree- every day, people are going about their daily lives with synthetic implants doing everything from regulating the heart to augmenting bones to replacing entire limbs. The only major difference between the real world and the fictional future is that currently such augmentations are inferior to or on par with their flesh-and-blood counterparts. It's not just sheer functionality that will have to be better to make them worthwhile, though- practicality is a major concern. Implants carry the risk of rejection or infection, are difficult to repair if damaged, are expensive to implant in the first place, have complications with existing technology (like MRIs), and generally are difficult to design due to the fact that modern technology doesn't like to operate in a mostly-water environment. Transhumanism will occur when two things happen: First, when technology progresses to the point where electronic implants are actually enhancements and not just substitutes, and second, when medical science progresses to the point where such implantations can be carried out cheaply, efficiently, and with minimal risk of complication. When both of those happen, serious body modification is bound to occur. If one or both doesn't occur, though, the technology with remain speculative and impractical.

[QUOTE=catbarf;31999042]Do you really need retracting sunglass implants a la Deus Ex? It's far more expensive, more permanent, and more likely to screw up with additional complications than just a cheap pair of sunglasses. If anyone actually willingly undergoes such a procedure, it will be for the sheer novelty, not because of any additional practicality over boringly mundane technology[/quote] I believe their primary function is to display the HUD that we all see while playing the game. He sees all that stuff as well, that's what the glasses do. They aren't there to make Jensen look like a pimp. [QUOTE=catbarf;31999042]Transhumanism already exists to a degree- every day, people are going about their daily lives with synthetic implants doing everything from regulating the heart to augmenting bones to replacing entire limbs. The only major difference between the real world and the fictional future is that currently such augmentations are inferior to or on par with their flesh-and-blood counterparts. It's not just sheer functionality that will have to be better to make them worthwhile, though- practicality is a major concern. Implants carry the risk of rejection or infection, are difficult to repair if damaged, are expensive to implant in the first place, have complications with existing technology (like MRIs), and generally are difficult to design due to the fact that electricity-based technology doesn't like to operate in a mostly-water environment. Transhumanism will occur when two things happen: First, when technology progresses to the point where electronic implants are actually enhancements and not just substitutes, and second, when medical science progresses to the point where such implantations can be carried out cheaply, efficiently, and with minimal risk of complication. When both of those happen, serious body modification is bound to occur. If one or both doesn't occur, though, the technology with remain speculative and impractical.[/QUOTE] The technology will happen, I don't think anyone denies that though I do agree that it isn't currently possible, that's not really up for debate. We knew that already. It's also easy, for a person who works in technology to know roughly the extent of the changes that will occur. Obviously, people can't predict everything, but it's not difficult to imagine.

[QUOTE=The89thAlt;31998383]Go Google how an EMP works and what it would effect and why.[/QUOTE] EMPs only really cause major damage to devices that have lots of wiring or long antennas. An EMP on something like a tiny, simple electrical device would do barely anything, if at all. Of course, I wouldn't want to take that chance with something like my brain. Just saying though. Tiny electronics are resistant to the effects of an EMP. If one hit the US, simple electronics like flashlights and things similar would still work, depending on the distance to the pulse and the intensity. Things like radios, modern cars, anything with large motors (wire coils in the motor would act like an antenna for the pulse) would be most likely irreversibly damaged.

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