What it means to be theist / deist / atheist / religious - General

I'm a theist. I don't have the energy to share why, that you care.

[QUOTE=Smooth Jazz;32448443]I'm a theist. I don't have the energy to share why, that you care.[/QUOTE] Obviously your god isn't that important to you, if laziness stops you from sharing!

[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;32447779]No they don't. In fact they have to do with a lack of knowledge but are based on a belief in god.[/QUOTE] what?

Agnostic.

Atheism is not a religious view. As I've stated, it is disbelief or lack of belief in deity(s). Again I ask, how is not believing in something a belief? Also do you think Atheism is a religion? Saying Atheism is religious view is like saying not playing football is a sport.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32449017]Atheism is not a religious view. As I've stated, it is disbelief or lack of belief in deity(s). Again I ask, how is not believing in something a belief? Also do you think Atheism is a religion? Saying Atheism is religious view is like saying not playing football is a sport.[/QUOTE] Atheism is commonly identified as a religion because while their are no rules, rites or rituals associated with it, it is in the end a persons belief relating the presence (or not) of a deity. That's how I see it. I wouldn't call it a religion by any stretch, but I can understand the association with it.

[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32449065]Atheism is identified as a religion because while their are no rites or rituals associated with it, it is in the end a persons belief relating the presence (or not) of a deity. That's how I see it. I wouldn't call it a religion by any stretch, but I can understand the association with it.[/QUOTE] In order for it to be a religious view, it would require faith. [quote]re·li·gious adj \ri-ˈli-jəs\ Definition of RELIGIOUS 1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes> 2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances [/quote] Atheism does not require faith, therefore it is not a religious view.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32449103]In order for it to be a religious view, it would require faith. Atheism does not require faith, therefore it is not a religious view.[/QUOTE] Try reading my post before posting a 'rebuttal.' Not once did I say I thought it was a religion nor classifiable as a religion, I said the association was understandable because it was a belief relating to the existence of a deity, which is easily the most promoted and known belief in religious systems. Whether or not you have faith in one. Therefore it's easy just to say "religious beliefs" because that's what it is, beliefs relating to the subject of religion, no matter the lack of faith or belief in the existence of a god.

[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32449159] Not once did I say I thought it was a religion nor classifiable as a religion[/QUOTE] I never said you did. [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32449159]because it was a belief relating to the existence of a deity[/quote] You are saying that everything related to religion is a religious view? Wrong. If I say I disbelief in any religion is that a religious view? Disbelief =/= Belief for the 3rd time. [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32449159]Whether or not you have faith in one.[/QUOTE] Faith is required in a view in order for it to a religious view by definition. So again, you are wrong.

I am open to the belief that there COULD be a higher power, but I do not believe that said higher power(s) created the universe or interfere with our lives. Would that make me agnostic?

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32449309] If I say I disbelief in any religion is that a religious view? [/QUOTE] YES. It is a view pertaining to religion and is thus a religious view. I'll ask you to answer this question (again): Do you believe in god or deities? Answer as an atheist would. Hint it's a yes or no question

Personally, I identify myself as either an "atheist" or a "non-religious individual" when asked (which happens much more than you'd think, actually) about my religion. I don't believe in a God. I believe the Bible's stories are rubbish, as well any other books written by sand-swimmers thousands of years ago - however, I find them interesting and like reading them (kind of like why people study ancient science, to see what people used to think basically.) I don't really believe anything "superstitious" like ghosts, curses, magic, or anything like that (but I believe Karma has good meaning, rather than practical use [it's good to be nice to people, but that doesn't guarantee nice things will happen to you, basically] to get what you want) I'm complicated /:v:\

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450050]YES. It is a view pertaining to religion and is thus a religious view. [/QUOTE] How is lacking a belief in gods (i.e atheism) a religious view when by definition, in order for said view to be religious, it requires faith which atheism does not. [QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450050]I'll ask you to answer this question (again): Do you believe in god or deities? Answer as an atheist would. Hint it's a yes or no question[/QUOTE] I will answer your question by stating I lack a belief in god(s).

[QUOTE=Quark:;32450265]Personally, I identify myself as either an "atheist" or a "non-religious individual" when asked (which happens much more than you'd think, actually) about my religion. I don't believe in a God. I believe the Bible's stories are rubbish, as well any other books written by sand-swimmers thousands of years ago - however, I find them interesting and like reading them (kind of like why people study ancient science, to see what people used to think basically.) I don't really believe anything "superstitious" like ghosts, curses, magic, or anything like that (but I believe Karma has good meaning, rather than practical use [it's good to be nice to people, but that doesn't guarantee nice things will happen to you, basically] to get what you want) I'm complicated /:v:\[/QUOTE]That reminds me, it seems to me that more atheists know the stories of the Bible better than most Judeo-Christians.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32450272]Not yes or no[/QUOTE] If that was a final on a test you would've failed when I gave you both possible answers. [quote]How is lacking a belief in gods (i.e atheism) a religious view when by definition, in order for said view to be religious, it requires faith which atheism does not. [/quote] Atheism can be defined as either lacking a belief in gods or not believing in gods. [I]They mean the same thing why can't accept that.[/I] And atheism requires just as much faith as being religious / theist. What do you [B]believe [/B]created us? The big bang? How do you [B]know [/B]the big bang happened? You accept whatever you believe is on faith, which is why it's a belief. Obviously there's exceptions but the big bang, currently, is not provable. It is just a very well thought out theory (key word: theory) that has some potential pieces of evidence. However you won't ever know for sure that's what happened unless you go back in time and see it. I [B]believe [/B]the big bang created us, I don't know. You seem to want to make out Atheists as this ultra pure group but we aren't. Again, being atheist automatically shows your views on religion ([I]that you think it's a load of hogwash[/I]). Thus it's a theistic view if you want to be really really specific, but it still [I]shows your views on religion.[/I]

-double post snip-

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450613]If that was a final on a test you would've failed when I gave you both possible answers.[/QUOTE] I answered the way I did to avoid the word games most theist play when you just say " I don't believe in god". Further more, If I simply state, "I don't believe in god", that's a incomplete statement of my position because from a theistic point of view, there is only one (or more) god(s) pertaining to their beliefs. A much more complete statement would be that I lack a belief in god(s) or that I have an absence of belief in god(s). The fact that you fail to understand this leads me to believe that you are purposely being disingenuous or are functionally retarded. [QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450613]And atheism requires just as much faith as being religious / theist. [/quote] And here the big reveal comes. I suspected you believed as such. Atheism does not require any faith. Atheism is simply the rejection of claims made by theist ( i.e there is a god or gods). I'm willing to bet you believe this because the existence of a god or gods is impossible to disprove, therefore lack of belief requires faith. This is logically inconsistent because your claim that atheism requires faith makes the assumption that all proposition or claims are equal. If I told you that there exist a pink elephant, you could not disprove this claim unless you searched every elephant in the universe which is impossible, however if I told you there exist a square circle you can say this is a logical contradiction which is basically the same as disproving it. I present 1 of many paradoxes involving the existence of a THEISTIC god:[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox[/url] Thus we have at the very least, doubted the existence of a theistic god because it has inherit logical contradictions and fallacies. So I ask you, how does a disbelief in god(s) require faith when logically, the evidence for a theistic god is to the contrary? [QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450613]What do you [B]believe [/B]created us? The big bang? How do you [B]know [/B]the big bang happened?[/QUOTE] Excuse me? You speak of the origin of life ( More specifically origin of man I presume in which case evolution is objectively the correct answer), but then you mention the big bang which leads me to believe you think evolution has something to do with the big bang. Cosmology and biology are 2 different sciences and I don't understand why you fail to understand this simple fact. [QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450613] You accept whatever you believe is on faith, which is why it's a belief. [/QUOTE] You seem to think any belief at all inherently requires faith in some capacity. A belief is simply something someone beliefs to be true. Atheism is not the assertion of truth(i.e There is no god) it is the rejection of claims by theist. [QUOTE=thrawn2787;32450613]It is just a very well thought out theory (key word: theory[/QUOTE] You don't understand theory in a scientific context and I think I'll stop responding right here, because after reading the rest of your post it is clear to me you don't understand the positions you're arguing against at all.

I'm personally an Atheist, but I don't rule out the possibility of some kind of Deist deal having happened. I don't discount the possibility of a god, since as far as I know a wizard creating the universe is just as plausible as anything else, but if one does exist he is impersonal, and does not touch things. In other words I do not believe in god(s) but I do not discount the fact that it is a possibility.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451036]words words words[/QUOTE] Your only argument is there has to be faith(wrong bud), and your only backing to that is "dictionary! but official definitions!" Remember this? That copy and paste you use as your argument? "of, [i]relating to[/i], or devoted to religious beliefs or observances" I'd say "I don't believe there is a god" is [b]clearly relating to religious beliefs[/b] Now stop trying so hard, definitions don't make the world what it is, despite what you try so desperately to believe.

[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32451112]I'd say "I don't believe there is a god" is [b]clearly relating to religious beliefs[/b][/Quote] The argument is not whether or not "I don't believe there is a god" is related to religious beliefs, the argument is, " Is atheism a religious view?". I don't understand why you fail to understand that in order for something to be a RELIGIOUS belief, it requires faith which atheism does not. [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32451112]Now stop trying so hard[/QUOTE] You act as if my efforts are somehow a bad thing. What society do you live in where trying hard is perceived as negative? I wonder what you'll achieve in your life with that attitude. [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32451112]definitions don't make the world what it is, despite what you try so desperately to believe.[/QUOTE] I don't understand why you keep personally attacking me as if they somehow negate my arguments ( see desperate). I don't like how you fail to rebut any of my arguments, but instead resort to dancing around the actual topic( Atheism a religious belief?) to cover up your clear lack of understanding of it.

In case you didn't notice, the omnipotence paradox only applies to omnipotent gods. Not all gods have to be omnipotent.

[QUOTE=ECrownofFire;32451291]In case you didn't notice, the omnipotence paradox only applies to omnipotent gods. Not all gods have to be omnipotent.[/QUOTE] Can you give me of an example of a god that is not omnipotent?

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32449103]Atheism does not require faith, therefore it is not a religious view.[/QUOTE] Faith is belief, and atheists believe something, therefore it's faith. [editline]24th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451331]Can you give me of an example of a god that is not omnipotent?[/QUOTE] How about practically every monotheistic god ever. In fact, most gods throughout history haven't been omnipotent.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451261]The argument is not whether or not "I don't believe there is a god" is related to religious beliefs, the argument is, " Is atheism a religious view?"[/QUOTE] I'm done with this before I waste more time on you. You literally said this wasn't about how "I don't believe in god" is a religious view. That's exactly what atheism is and you "danced around" how you just openly stated that atheism is a religious view. Religious beliefs are one of the thing that define a religion, therefore the belief that there is no god is a religion, based on definitions. Definitions; the only thing you have to back your 'argument.' I'm taking this as you giving in to what I've been saying, whether you want to admit or not. Because you literally just said Atheism is a religious view, and it's not a religion because it doesn't require "faith." It does require faith, faith in your belief that you are not bound by any religious rites or rules. It by definition, is a religion.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32451359]Faith is belief, and atheists believe something, therefore it's faith.[/QUOTE] Faith is a certain type of belief ( i,e without evidence), therefore to say faith in of-itself applies universal is illogical(see sweeping generalization: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_%28fallacy%29[/url]) . I present the claim , " all dogs have 2 eyes, therefore humans are dogs" to further show the fallacy.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451331]Can you give me of an example of a god that is not omnipotent?[/QUOTE]Pantheism, pretty much any polytheistic god, 90% of Christian denominations (Catholicism included), and so on. It's actually quite rare that you find an omnipotent god. [editline]23rd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451417]Faith is a certain type of belief ( i,e without evidence), therefore to say faith in of-itself applies universal is illogical(see sweeping generalization: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_%28fallacy%29[/url]) . I present the claim , " all dogs have 2 eyes, therefore humans are dogs" to further show the fallacy.[/QUOTE]And what evidence is there against the existence of a god? Consider the possibilities of Pantheism and Deism/Spinoza's God in your answer.

Ah, I see the dictionary is still what defines your world, I am definitely done with this. Atheism does not near meet the characteristics of religion, I am aware of this, believing this isn't a problem, to do it with your only argument being CTRL+V definitions of certain words is annoying to me.

[QUOTE=Rhinovirus;32451417]Faith is a certain type of belief ( i,e without evidence), therefore to say faith in of-itself applies universal is illogical(see sweeping generalization: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_%28fallacy%29[/url]) . I present the claim , " all dogs have 2 eyes, therefore humans are dogs" to further show the fallacy.[/QUOTE] The definition of faith is somewhat mixed. It can be used simply to describe any belief. [url]http://www.onelook.com/?w=faith&ls=a[/url] However, even in the definition that there's no proof, well there really isn't any proof that there is no God. Of course most people will say that the burden of proof lies with them and blah blah blah but that's for pragmatic scientific method not philosophical existentialism.

[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32451480]The definition of faith is somewhat mixed. It can be used simply to describe any belief. [url]http://www.onelook.com/?w=faith&ls=a[/url] However, even in the definition that there's no proof, well there really isn't any proof that there is no God. Of course most people will say that the burden of proof lies with them and blah blah blah but that's for pragmatic scientific method not philosophical existentialism.[/QUOTE] Your attempting to reason with someone who's debating abilities consist of copy+paste. Get ready for a fresh wave from dictionary.com

[QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32451371]You literally said this wasn't about how "I don't believe in god" is a religious view. [/QUOTE] No I didn't (see: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman[/url]), I stated the argument is not about whether or not the statement "I don't believe in god" is related to religion, but rather, " Is atheism a religious view?". You seem to think that related to/ or involving religion = religious belief which is clearly logically inconsistent when you apply it to something else. Take for example the claim because not playing football is related to football( only when referring to the specific activity not involved in), therefore not playing football is a sport. [QUOTE=HawkeyeTy;32451371] Religious beliefs are one of the thing that define a religion [/QUOTE] Yes religious ( i.e faith-based beliefs) beliefs are one thing that define a religion, but the problem is that you seem to think Atheism requires some sort of faith which I have already showed to not be true in my response to thrawn which you appear to just forgotten about. I doubt you even read my post with any comprehension since you still have yet to post a rebuttal to my contention that Atheism does not require faith, but instead just restate your claim( Atheism requires faith) as if that somehow negates your need to provide evidence for your claims. I suggest you properly read my post and any other in the future to avoid looking like a fool with no reading comprehension skills.