• A Warning to All Game Developers (YandereSim)
    245 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mchapra;51713115]he's pretty much an ideas guy and other people did bulk of the work for him but sure dude[/QUOTE] I don't think thats true, he hired people to help clean up his code some I think volunteered, some might have been paid but it's a bit of a dick move to say he's just an ideas guy
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;51713193]papers, please? spelunky? cave story? another world? dust an elysian tale? banished?[/QUOTE] Pretty much all of these except banished is a 2D game, though the games look fantastic I'd really say that making 3d models and textures to be a really hard thing along with animations and other things. Yandere Sim's concept isn't something that you'll be able to do by yourself considering the scale of what the game is aiming for including the 3D assets one has to make.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;51713193]papers, please? spelunky? cave story? another world? dust an elysian tale? banished?[/QUOTE] Don't forget Stardew Valley.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51713304]Twitch doesn't allow games that are rated AO, and games that would be rated AO if they bothered to get an ESRB rating. YouTube doesn't allow porn or explicit violence (like jihadist beheadings). I don't see why this is a surprise. If they're being inconsistent about their policy, rip them for that, but disallowing kawaii classmate murder simulator seems pretty straightforward to me.[/QUOTE] AO ratings are exclusively given to 2 types of games. 1) Porno games that are being sold in the United States, and 2) Games with large controversies surrounding them, i.e. Hatred, Manhunt 2, and GTA:SA. 99% of porno games either predate ESRB ratings or were never sold in the United States, but they kind of speak for themselves so no such thing is needed in this case. The kind of controversy that gets an AO rating is based on mainstream reaction rather than content, and as a result controversial games are usually no more violent or crude than most M rated games. So no, it wouldn't get an AO rating. Not unless a massive smear campaign suddenly happened.
[QUOTE=mchapra;51713115]he's pretty much an ideas guy and other people did bulk of the work for him but sure dude[/QUOTE] yes getting help on your project = ideas guy gabe newell is an ideas guy he had a bunch of people help him make hl1 what a fucking nerd
it all got a bit creepy once he established that it wasn't a fun game that parodies anime archetypes and instead a totally serious (?) game about stalking and murder with super elaborate and gory mechanics except for some reason you're an underage girl in a pseudo-japanese anime world where everything is slightly pervy also the fact that he's still having all of the artists/musicians/actors for the game work for free as "volunteers" while making so much money off of the game is shameful
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;51712906]How is this a game? :v:[/QUOTE] Honestly sounds like a procedurally generated name for an evil region in Dwarf Fortress before Toady removed bad words from the languages.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713606]also the fact that he's still having all of the artists/musicians/actors for the game work for free as "volunteers" while making so much money off of the game is shameful[/QUOTE] Oh he's intending to pay for all the assets he includes in his full release of the game. He's cataloguing all that. But he also said that some assets "might have to be remade to be up to scratch". So basically all work volunteers have done so far for the alpha/beta builds amounts to speculative work.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713606]it all got a bit creepy once he established that it wasn't a fun game that parodies anime archetypes and instead a totally serious (?) game about stalking and murder with super elaborate and gory mechanics except for some reason you're an underage girl in a pseudo-japanese anime world where everything is slightly pervy also the fact that he's still having all of the artists/musicians/actors for the game work for free as "volunteers" while making so much money off of the game is shameful[/QUOTE] Someone already covered your last point, as for the former Something can parody/subervet tropes and still have a serious subject matter under it's surface, One Punch Man and Madoka are great examples of this. Parodies aren't always just a lighthearted jokefest.
[QUOTE=aurum481;51713661]Oh he's intending to pay for all the assets he includes in his full release of the game. He's cataloguing all that. But he also said that some assets "might have to be remade to be up to scratch". So basically all work volunteers have done so far for the alpha/beta builds amounts to speculative work.[/QUOTE] that excuse would work if it was still a no-budget passion project but the guy is running a million+ subs youtube channel on top of a $5k+ monthly patreon. some of it may be placeholder art but the game is obviously already a product at this point even though it isn't finished, and a lucrative one for him. Anything that's in the game right now is already part of the product he may not be legally doing anything wrong since he's still calling all the contributors "volunteers" but it's definitely shitty business practice [QUOTE=dvc;51713674]Someone already covered your last point, as for the former Something can parody/subervet tropes and still have a serious subject matter under it's surface, One Punch Man and Madoka are great examples of this. Parodies aren't always just a lighthearted jokefest.[/QUOTE] well what is he really parodying in a dark way then? is he doing anything unexpected or interesting with the setting? what's the "serious subject matter" here? to me it seems like he's just playing everything super straight in a generic anime porn world with hitman gameplay madoka stood out because it was something new at the time, and the twist came out of nowhere after they built the characters up in a normal way
[QUOTE=aurum481;51713661]Oh he's intending to pay for all the assets he includes in his full release of the game. He's cataloguing all that. But he also said that some assets "might have to be remade to be up to scratch". So basically all work volunteers have done so far for the alpha/beta builds amounts to speculative work.[/QUOTE] That's pretty shitty. If you commission an artist to make something, you pay them; even if it doesn't make the final cut, or you decide to change it after. Actors who are in scenes that don't make the theatrical release still get paid. That's a good way to get sued.
[QUOTE=Cummed Pants;51713808]That's pretty shitty. If you commission an artist to make something, you pay them; even if it doesn't make the final cut, or you decide to change it after. Actors who are in scenes that don't make the theatrical release still get paid. That's a good way to get sued.[/QUOTE] Volunteer actors don't get paid though. If they agreed to volunteer rather than work for late pay, then there's no case to be made. [QUOTE=Rahu X;51713215]Also, while looking up the whole Yandere Dev vs. Mike Z thing, I came across [URL="https://prettyuglylittleliar.net/topic/1896-yanderedev-evaxephon/"]this lengthy post.[/URL] [/QUOTE] I kinda think the reason he cant get a gf is not his looks. Dude's a total creep and both his videos and game do reflect that quite a lot. And while I normally don't judge devs by their content, in this case it's quite evident.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;51713193]papers, please? spelunky? cave story? another world? dust an elysian tale? banished?[/QUOTE] Axiom Verge is a pretty crazy example of this, he even learned how to make music for that game.
[QUOTE=Cummed Pants;51713808]That's pretty shitty. If you commission an artist to make something, you pay them; even if it doesn't make the final cut, or you decide to change it after. Actors who are in scenes that don't make the theatrical release still get paid. That's a good way to get sued.[/QUOTE] To be fair on this whole thing, if people are perfectly happy to contribute to the project for no pay so you can focus on what you are good at rather than having to learn to do it all yourself (And some people are just not talented artistically and would end up producing junk either way), then why should he say no? A lot of the games mentioned with 1 man dev teams are obviously created by extremely dedicated and talented people who I'd go as far as to say are creative geniuses, but most people just aren't capable of that in a realistic timeframe even if they put their mind to it. If I was in his position but couldn't really afford to shell out money hiring artists/etc, but I had a dedicated fanbase with some talented artists willing to create assets for free just to contribute to the game, why the heck not? I mean it does kinda suck that he is massively profiting and will do more when it releases from tons of content that is made by other people, but I'm sure everyone contributing understands that and is doing it anyway. It's not like he's duping people out of money.
[QUOTE=yellowoboe;51713527]I'm trying to pay attention to the video but I just can't get over that this is a fucking video game title.[/QUOTE] These is always the classic game "Suck my Dingus or Die". I will have a place in my heart for all eternity
[QUOTE=Dr.Cola;51713559]Pretty much all of these except banished is a 2D game, though the games look fantastic I'd really say that making 3d models and textures to be a really hard thing along with animations and other things. Yandere Sim's concept isn't something that you'll be able to do by yourself considering the scale of what the game is aiming for including the 3D assets one has to make.[/QUOTE] Not really. Making sprite art that's high quality, looks good and is animated well can be even more time consuming than making 3d models, especially when you have a game that has an art style that's as simplistic looking as Yandere Simulator. In fact, I'd say that animating 2d sprites is generally a lot harder and way more time consuming than animating 3d models, especially since with 3d you can use motion capture, as well as find a bunch of different pre-made motion captured animation libraries online.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713606]also the fact that he's still having all of the artists/musicians/actors for the game work for free as "volunteers" while making so much money off of the game is shameful[/QUOTE] He's been pretty transparent about how he's been paying significant contributors to the game, [URL="https://www.patreon.com/posts/2016-and-polls-7685057"]I definitely wouldn't say it's 'free'.[/URL] [QUOTE]Every month, $3,500 of that money went to me, leaving us with a "surplus" of $24,725.30. Over the course of the year, the surplus money was used to compensate seven volunteers who contributed to the game in noteworthy ways. Aliases will be used instead of real names, unless the volunteer in question has publicly attached their real name to the game. Ani - $100 for animation assistance Druelbozo - $12,000 for creating numerous 3D models Momoki - $750 for providing the voice of Midori, Kokona, Saki, and Oka. Yosua - $250 for providing numerous animations Sheltor - $500 for creating numerous motion-captured animations Brittany Lauda - $800 for providing the voice of Osana Najimi Only Wednesday Music - $3,100 for composing numerous background tracks A total of $17,500 was used to compensate volunteers who contributed to the game in remarkable ways. As a result, the "surplus" of $24,725.30 has become $7,225.30.[/QUOTE] Besides that, volunteers are exactly that, volunteers, whether or not you put them in quotation marks. They don't go in expecting rigid payment, they do what they do because they want to contribute to the game. You can't act like he's conning these people out of time and money, especially when the people who are putting in an especially demanding amount of work [I]are [/I]getting compensated.
[QUOTE=Omniary;51713916]He's been pretty transparent about how he's been paying significant contributors to the game, [URL="https://www.patreon.com/posts/2016-and-polls-7685057"]I definitely wouldn't say it's 'free'.[/URL] Besides that, volunteers are exactly that, volunteers, whether or not you put them in quotation marks. They don't go in expecting rigid payment, they do what they do because they want to contribute to the game. You can't act like he's conning these people out of time and money, especially when the people who are putting in an especially demanding amount of work [I]are [/I]getting compensated.[/QUOTE] Oh that's a quite recent post on patreon. Seems my view was outdated as it was based on his older status videos. Nice to know that volunteers are getting rewarded.
[QUOTE=Omniary;51713916]He's been pretty transparent about how he's been paying significant contributors to the game, [URL="https://www.patreon.com/posts/2016-and-polls-7685057"]I definitely wouldn't say it's 'free'.[/URL] Besides that, volunteers are exactly that, volunteers, whether or not you put them in quotation marks. They don't go in expecting rigid payment, they do what they do because they want to contribute to the game. You can't act like he's conning these people out of time and money, especially when the people who are putting in an especially demanding amount of work [I]are [/I]getting compensated.[/QUOTE] well i'll admit i didn't know about that the amounts are a bit weird though, and i don't get why he'd only pay one of the modelers if there are others making assets as well and why is the modeler making $12k while all of the animators are making below a thousand combined, is the modeler a close friend perhaps? other than that though, in that post he does come off as pretty scummy. like, he apparently takes only $3500 of the patreon money as his own salary and puts the rest off but he obviously regrets that and wants to keep it for himself, as he writes here [quote]Occasionally, I encounter people who are not aware that I have "capped" my salary at $3,500. Sometimes, these people express shock when I tell them that I'm giving up about $1,500 every month. Some people have told me that they believe this isn't fair, and that I should be keeping every single cent that I make from Patreon. We've been using the "Salary is capped at 3.5k, surplus goes to volunteers" strategy for the past 13 months. Is it time to remove the cap?[/quote] "some people have told me that they believe this isn't fair" pfffft Followed by a poll which ended up like this [thumb]https://i.imgur.com/l2CwPZX.png[/thumb] gj lol
Honestly? It's a fucking game and this is a joke. His arguments are shit and so is Twitch. It blows my mind that whole upheavals happen over stuff like this.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713802] well what is he really parodying in a dark way then? is he doing anything unexpected or interesting with the setting? what's the "serious subject matter" here? to me it seems like he's just playing everything super straight in a generic anime porn world with hitman gameplay madoka stood out because it was something new at the time, and the twist came out of nowhere after they built the characters up in a normal way[/QUOTE] That's because he's focusing on mechanics first and we don't know much about the actual narrative yet. And I don't know about you, but I don't know how you can judge a games parody value soley by the fact it has sound mechanics? Does a parody game have to not be... yknow... a game? Does every parody have to have jokey mechanics too? I don't know, but so far, we have clubs with ridiculous bullshit going on in them, shit like panties giving you certain attributes when you wear them, and paying for bonuses with panty shots, this game doesn't take itself 100% seriously. Also I don't know where people are getting the 'sexually torture' thing from, as far as I'm aware the kidnapping mechanic doesn't really do that, it doesn't even show what the torture is. We don't know that much about the narrative yet, so you can't call it not a parody when the dev is just focusing on solid mechanics before story. He said he wanted to incorporate serious themes into the narrative, and we have yet to see what those are.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713802] well what is he really parodying in a dark way then? is he doing anything unexpected or interesting with the setting? what's the "serious subject matter" here? to me it seems like he's just playing everything super straight in a generic anime porn world with hitman gameplay madoka stood out because it was something new at the time, and the twist came out of nowhere after they built the characters up in a normal way[/QUOTE] It parodies the 'senpai pls notice me' multiple times. Right off the bat: If you get close to him, your view suddenly goes pink and you drop everything on your hands, switching to a blushing, fidgety animation. One of the girls you have to cut from his life literally gives him the "I made you bento, but it's not because I like you or anything, b-baka!!" shtick. You can murder anyone and students will react in different ways; with him, it's an instant game over, because you p.much lose him. And not just killing people: if your reputation in the school goes low enough, he won't respect you/face you/somethingsomething and it's also a game over. [editline]23rd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;51713141] "Poor guy he's overworked" "The E-mails are tiring him out!" Yandere Dev doesn't realize you can get user interaction and feedback by other means of not reading every single email you get, if you're popular you're bound to get filled with emails and private messages. It's like if a YouTuber complained about people filling his notifications box cause apparently he wants to read every single one of them. And apparently he wastes so much time doing so because he wants to find people who can help him with professional voice acting and other shit like that. You don't do this by reading through your emails, you do this by hiring someone. You're trying to find gold on a sea of garbage. It's also the excuse he uses for apparently how sluggish the development for his game is. "YandereDev gets too much e-mail! Sending YandereDev an e-mail will slow down the game's development!". How has he not seen the problem here and fixed it after so many years.[/QUOTE] For the record, he has posted another video in which he mentions it was more or less an one time event, and while he works a lot of time, he doesn't spend as much time reading emails. I remember it because I was the first to rag about him doing that until he posted that video.
This is pure attention seeking from this guy tbh, Twitch doesn't owe him shit, it's their service and they can disallow whatever they want. It shouldn't need clarification, because it's clear from the content of the game that Twitch aren't comfortable having it on their platform. The entire argument about other games "doing worse" is such a complete load of bullshit too. If GTA allowed you to take sexualized images of ambiguously aged minors before killing them, he might have a point. You have to be purposefully ignorant to think that GTA and other games are allowed just because they're popular. Finally, the SJW bogeyman he conjures up in the last half is stupid as hell. For some reason in his mind the only possible explanation for his underage blackmail murder simulator to be banned is that a shadowy cabal of "them" has taken over twitch specifically to target him.
The game is banned because it's trash.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51713606]also the fact that he's still having all of the artists/musicians/actors for the game work for free as "volunteers" while making so much money off of the game is shameful[/QUOTE] You think it's shameful to have people contributing art assets to a game but crowdfunding in general isn't shameful? I actually think community asset contributions are a lot more above board than handing him money, you cant just go and spend those art assets on something else after all.
[QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]This is pure attention seeking from this guy tbh, Twitch doesn't owe him shit, it's their service and they can disallow whatever they want. It shouldn't need clarification, because it's clear from the content of the game that Twitch aren't comfortable having it on their platform.[/QUOTE] Maybe, actually act like a responsible company and give him an simple answer. If they can take a decision that affect him this much, they can justify it as well. [QUOTE]The entire argument about other games "doing worse" is such a complete load of bullshit too. If GTA allowed you to take sexualized images of ambiguously aged minors before killing them, he might have a point. You have to be purposefully ignorant to think that GTA and other games are allowed just because they're popular. [/QUOTE] Hatred is banned, if GTA wasn't popular, is it really that different? Popularity helps, a lot. [QUOTE]Finally, the SJW bogeyman he conjures up in the last half is stupid as hell. For some reason in his mind the only possible explanation for his underage blackmail murder simulator to be banned is that a shadowy cabal of "them" has taken over twitch specifically to target him.[/QUOTE] Let's ignore all the other possible reasons he gave.
This guy is blissfully ignorant of the overall product he's making, and how it looks to anybody peering in from the outside. Him pulling up an argument that a game where the narrative is run by school students being in an environment with a cartoon bear and a scooby doo murder mystery is the same was complete ass backwards. I can't believe that he's not able to differentiate between the theme of his own game focused on stalking and torturing as the main motif. There's also a difference between having a scenario where you torture somebody for a narrative purpose for a tense sequence. To a gameplay mechanic focused on deriving pleasure from it. As an overall theme it's completely focused on the pleasure from the act of killing and torturing other students, no matter how much he tries to tip-toe through that fact. I'm not saying it's a bad game. But seriously man. He's got to stop bringing it up, i'd love for a streaming site that was large to all types of content with no censorship. But he won't get it on Twitch no matter how much he tries to hide the fact that this game is solely about killing students, he should be true to his own game and admit to what it actually is instead. Yes, it's silly. But holy moly, he's being ignorant about his own product and the image it has.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51714257]You think it's shameful to have people contributing art assets to a game but crowdfunding in general isn't shameful? I actually think community asset contributions are a lot more above board than handing him money, you cant just go and spend those art assets on something else after all.[/QUOTE] well no, with crowdfunding people fund it either to get a reward or because they want to see the final project, and it's a way for the creator to gage interest and be able to create things for their audience without much financial risk with volunteer asset contributions like this he's just taking advantage of the goodwill from young artists who can't find work while contributing to a culture that devalues creative work in general yandere simulator isn't a nonprofit, he shouldn't have "volunteers"
It really bothers me that he gave a like to his own video.
[QUOTE=Eric95;51714300]well no, with crowdfunding people fund it either to get a reward or because they want to see the final project, and it's a way for the creator to gage interest and be able to create things for their audience without much financial risk with volunteer asset contributions like this he's just taking advantage of the goodwill from young artists who can't find work while contributing to a culture that devalues creative work in general yandere simulator isn't a nonprofit, he shouldn't have "volunteers"[/QUOTE] If you're wanting to see a game made and you're an artist with a shitty day job, why not spend your free time when you aren't employed doing something productive? I just don't see how it's preferable for people to give him hard earned money over art assets that can be made without commitment and on whatever schedule the volunteer pleases. Like sure if you're rich and have a great job sure just throw im a few bucks but if you're scraping by but have some free time and you want to help you might as well.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.