• A Warning to All Game Developers (YandereSim)
    245 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51714393]If you're wanting to see a game made and you're an artist with a shitty day job, why not spend your free time when you aren't employed doing something productive? I just don't see how it's preferable for people to give him hard earned money over art assets that can be made without commitment and on whatever schedule the volunteer pleases. Like sure if you're rich and have a great job sure just throw im a few bucks but if you're scraping by but have some free time and you want to help you might as well.[/QUOTE] I am an artist with a shitty day job, and doing free work for a commercial product is not only damaging to the whole industry, but devalues your other work as well when trying to sell yourself; everyone will expect free work.
[QUOTE=Cummed Pants;51714517]I am an artist with a shitty day job, and doing free work for a commercial product is not only damaging to the whole industry, but devalues your other work as well when trying to sell yourself; everyone will expect free work.[/QUOTE] I seriously doubt people willfully volunteering their animu quality art assets for one man meme game projects will ever damage the industry. If it were AAAs with huge funding/wide profit margins and large teams abusing unpaid volunteers i would agree with you but that simply isn't the situation. I quite enjoy a community effort like what they're doing here and i consider it selfish to try to shit on other people wanting to make something for people to enjoy, it reminds me of the paid mods fiasco somewhat, the whole "but anyone doing anything needs to be paid because value because capitalism makes everything better".
The reason why this game is banned is that regardless of how you spin the 'Alternate no kill Paths' (which I think he said could only use once, and some that can't be non-killed), you still will end up having to, or at the very least have the choice to, to do one or more of the following: [QUOTE] -Murder Juinor/High School girls/guys with varying amounts of animation/brutality -Kidnap said Juinor/High School girls -Torture/Brainwash said girls into committing a suicide attack on someone -Literally fake a suicide -electrocute/drown (I think he said that was coming idk) students -Leading a girl into hanging herself due to rumors that the player creates -take lewd photographs of (in terms of what uniform you chose, and what the dev says the other uniforms are supposed to be) minors -sell those photos to a person who will send you blackmail material/other positive incentives -have mechanics where you have to literally butcher a body to hide and burn -[sp] Summon a fucking elderitch hand god[/sp] [/QUOTE] With the amount of times he referenced the torture scene from GTA V, he didn't seem to realize that the scene he mentioned was only done ONCE and even then it was forced onto the player. You are supposed to feel uncomfortable and resistant to torturing the guy while playing through that section. You are made to feel that the agent you meet during that mission is a man who has no real morals or even care for the guy, and even the reckless, moral-less Trevor is (slightly) against (at first) torturing a guy they literally just saved from the exact same scenario at the FIB HQ.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51714665]The reason why this game is banned is that regardless of how you spin the 'Alternate no kill Paths' (which I think he said could only use once, and some that can't be non-killed), you still will end up having to, or at the very least have the choice to, to do one or more of the following:[/QUOTE] I didn't know you worked at twitch. You should get a coworker to email him so he can reply to you and explain to you how his game actually works before you decide to ban it. The nonviolent options include setting up a rival with a different student so she loses interest, or just sabotaging your rival's relationship through nonviolent means (put gross shit in the lunch she made for senpai spread rumors senpai likes something he actually hates etc, got implemented a few dev videos back). other than that, yes, there are a lot of ways to eliminate rivals as there should be in any hitman style game. Literally just quoting the game having too many kill methods as a valid reason to ban it makes you look silly.
[QUOTE=DaWhatTheFox;51714243]The game is banned because it's trash.[/QUOTE] but no mans sky isn't?
[QUOTE=Warborq;51714293]This guy is blissfully ignorant of the overall product he's making, and how it looks to anybody peering in from the outside.[/QUOTE] He really is not. He is well aware of his product and the themes, but he can't push the sort of narrative he did in the video if he admits that.
Now, even if it's sensitive for Twitch, i would love to see this on stream.
[QUOTE=Plaster;51714766]but no mans sky isn't?[/QUOTE] There are no streams of a game no one wants to play
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51714598]I seriously doubt people willfully volunteering their animu quality art assets for one man meme game projects will ever damage the industry. If it were AAAs with huge funding/wide profit margins and large teams abusing unpaid volunteers i would agree with you but that simply isn't the situation. I quite enjoy a community effort like what they're doing here and i consider it selfish to try to shit on other people wanting to make something for people to enjoy, it reminds me of the paid mods fiasco somewhat, the whole "but anyone doing anything needs to be paid because value because capitalism makes everything better".[/QUOTE] I would buy that if he hadn't set up a patreon, especially one so successful, and then plans to sell the results afterwords; all while taking free work in. And it not being a AAA title makes it worse. With the amount of talented artist on the indie level looking for work, and all the money he's being handed, it's ridiculous in my opinion. [editline]23rd January 2017[/editline] Mostly I don't get why people would care about not seeing streams of YD, this is what 50% of them will look like: [video]https://youtu.be/G7NBmFrwKvU[/video]
how is it okay for him to accept money for the project when he is contributing less than his "volunteers"? it would be different if nobody was being paid, and this was a completely volunteer-run free game, or if everyone was getting paid a decent amount. right now it's on the same level as having people do work for "exposure"--people should be paid for their time and effort.
[QUOTE=kr1f333;51714941]how is it okay for him to accept money for the project when he is contributing less than his "volunteers"? it would be different if nobody was being paid, and this was a completely volunteer-run free game, or if everyone was getting paid a decent amount. right now it's on the same level as having people do work for "exposure"--people should be paid for their time and effort.[/QUOTE] He's literally organizing the business end, designing the game and programming everything for years on end. Gee oh he isn't also an artist so has some volunteers making art assets whenever they want to and he also spends extra budget over his self imposed salary cap on hiring non volunteer artists get the torches and pitchforks clearly he is killing the games industry. You have obnoxiously unrealistic expectations. Making shitty anime art is miles easier than the design and programming, it would only take me an hour of standalone time to make an art asset for yansim's intended level of detail from scratch, fully unwrapped, textured and i wouldn't have to dedicate a portion of my brain to understanding the codebase for every time i decide to pick up work on it.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;51713304]Twitch doesn't allow games that are rated AO, and games that would be rated AO if they bothered to get an ESRB rating. YouTube doesn't allow porn or explicit violence (like jihadist beheadings). I don't see why this is a surprise. If they're being inconsistent about their policy, rip them for that, but disallowing kawaii classmate murder simulator seems pretty straightforward to me.[/QUOTE] This game is neither rated by the ESRB (Yet anyway) nor would it be likely to make it to AO. [editline]23rd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]This is pure attention seeking from this guy tbh[/QUOTE] "My game was banned from a streaming service which allows people to see my product and get my product needed exposure so it can make a profit, it was banned, i asked them and they seem to deliberately be ignoring me and i dont know why" is attention seeking? [QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]Twitch doesn't owe him shit, it's their service and they can disallow whatever they want. [/QUOTE] Why is this always the go to excuse for companies or services doing stupid shit and being dicks about it? No, they dont, but that doesnt prevent anyone from calling them out on bad practices. [QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]It shouldn't need clarification, because it's clear from the content of the game that Twitch aren't comfortable having it on their platform.[/QUOTE] He's pointed out most games on the banned list are outright porn, and pointed to examples of other games with content on par or worse than his games (Its essentially Hitman animu edition anyway). There are more repugnant anime games out there allowed on twitch. [QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]The entire argument about other games "doing worse" is such a complete load of bullshit too. If GTA allowed you to take sexualized images of ambiguously aged minors before killing them, he might have a point. You have to be purposefully ignorant to think that GTA and other games are allowed just because they're popular. [/QUOTE] Except he points out another anime style game where you can do just that, and in fact, theres an anime game where you kill those same ambiguously aged minors by stripping them (iirc) and its completely allowed, Akiba's Strip. [QUOTE=Streecer;51714123]Finally, the SJW bogeyman he conjures up in the last half is stupid as hell. For some reason in his mind the only possible explanation for his underage blackmail murder simulator to be banned is that a shadowy cabal of "them" has taken over twitch specifically to target him.[/QUOTE] He didnt say it WAS, he said it was a possibility. From his point of view, his game was banned for seemingly no reason, he cant get in touch with anyone to discuss it let alone figure out why it was banned to begin with, and he's even said he's willing to cooperate to remove things that Twitch doesnt like, so he's trying to imagine why they would do such a thing, and yes, believe it or not, that is a real, tangible, distinct possibility that could in fact be the case. [editline]23rd January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Warborq;51714293]This guy is blissfully ignorant of the overall product he's making, and how it looks to anybody peering in from the outside. Him pulling up an argument that a game where the narrative is run by school students being in an environment with a cartoon bear and a scooby doo murder mystery is the same was complete ass backwards. I can't believe that he's not able to differentiate between the theme of his own game focused on stalking and torturing as the main motif. There's also a difference between having a scenario where you torture somebody for a narrative purpose for a tense sequence. To a gameplay mechanic focused on deriving pleasure from it. As an overall theme it's completely focused on the pleasure from the act of killing and torturing other students, no matter how much he tries to tip-toe through that fact. I'm not saying it's a bad game. But seriously man. He's got to stop bringing it up, i'd love for a streaming site that was large to all types of content with no censorship. But he won't get it on Twitch no matter how much he tries to hide the fact that this game is solely about killing students, he should be true to his own game and admit to what it actually is instead. Yes, it's silly. But holy moly, he's being ignorant about his own product and the image it has.[/QUOTE] Really all i have to say is Hitman. A franchise of literal murder simulators where the whole concept is to have fun killing people in gruesome and creative fashions in which it encourages you to revisit levels and just go nuts (Blood Money for example, if you want to see all the titles you can earn, you'll have to become a spree shooter, theres even a special one for murdering an entire neighborhood of innocent people, including a dog, with a baseball bat). It takes that concept more seriously than this game does (which is evidently self aware since it quite intentionally dabbles in some really silly Anime tropes and cliches, the games called Yandere Simulator for gods sake). Even then, UNLIKE Hitman, YandereDev has stated and shown you dont need to kill people to go about the game, its just easier, in that way its somewhat comparable to Postal 2, just not outright satire. [sp]And not even remotely as perfect as Postal 2[/sp].
Is this the game where you can also spread rumors about someone on social media until they end up getting bullied into committing suicide by hanging?
[QUOTE=Naota1248;51713183]I've never heard of someone that is talented enough to code a game AND make all of the visual/audio assets. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I would like to believe that his contributors will get credit and compensation for their hard work![/QUOTE] :dog: [sp]Well to be fair, I think he used a game engine someone else made, and someone else helped him with the designs. But everyone said it's his game and he made it himself.[/sp]
2D assets are different from 3D
[QUOTE=Sally;51715541]2D assets are different from 3D[/QUOTE] You can put more effort into 2D assets than 3D assets.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51715553]You can put more effort into 2D assets than 3D assets.[/QUOTE] You can put more effort in 3D assets than 2D assets.
[QUOTE=Sally;51715571]You can put more effort in 3D assets than 2D assets.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51715553]You can put more effort into 2D assets than 3D assets.[/QUOTE] Everything is situational and there is no set definitive truths regarding game assets and effort.
I have said this in a different thread, but this game really crosses the line from being murder simulator to psychotic (almost creepy) fantasy simulator. Honestly, he REALLY should have seen this coming, regardless if twitch isn't being consistent. This game doesn't even have any comedic messages or any meaning to it at all. This game is just straight up creepy, it was kind of cool and looked like an alternative to hitman, but then it just got weird. I find it hard to defend this game. I'd like to see some arguments as of why this shouldn't be banned, what possible reason other then shock value this game could be considered normal entertainment in the context of an average player.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598]I have said this in a different thread, but this game really crosses the line from being murder simulator to psychotic (almost creepy) fantasy simulator. Honestly, he REALLY should have seen this coming, regardless if twitch isn't being consistent. This game doesn't even have any comedic messages or any meaning to it at all. This game is just straight up creepy, it was kind of cool and looked like an alternative to hitman, but then it just got weird. I find it hard to defend this game. I'd like to see some arguments as of why this shouldn't be banned, what possible reason other then shock value this game could be considered normal entertainment in the context of an average player.[/QUOTE] I'd like to hear your opinion on why its "pychotic". The whole thing from my point of view is too over the top to take seriously.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598]I have said this in a different thread, but this game really crosses the line from being murder simulator to psychotic (almost creepy) fantasy simulator. [/QUOTE] I really don't get where this is coming from or how some people are so fragile that this unnerves them. [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598]This game doesn't even have any comedic messages or any meaning to it at all.[/QUOTE] Why does this even matter? [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598] I'd like to see some arguments as of why this shouldn't be banned[/QUOTE] Because other games with the same kind of content aren't banned. [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598]what possible reason other then shock value this game could be considered normal entertainment in the context of an average player.[/QUOTE] Perhaps because some people find it fun. I know, it's shocking that some people have different preferences in their fictional entertainment.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715598]I have said this in a different thread, but this game really crosses the line from being murder simulator to psychotic (almost creepy) fantasy simulator. Honestly, he REALLY should have seen this coming, regardless if twitch isn't being consistent. This game doesn't even have any comedic messages or any meaning to it at all. This game is just straight up creepy, it was kind of cool and looked like an alternative to hitman, but then it just got weird. I find it hard to defend this game. I'd like to see some arguments as of why this shouldn't be banned, what possible reason other then shock value this game could be considered normal entertainment in the context of an average player.[/QUOTE] It's based on a kind of anime character type that acts psychotic and extremly jealous, i think. So it's all intentional. I don't think it aimed at the average player either, probably at someone with knowledge of that kind of anime.
[QUOTE=Talvy;51715506]Is this the game where you can also spread rumors of someone on social media until they get bullied into committing suicide by hanging?[/QUOTE] No, it's the game where you spread rumors of someone on social media until they get isolated enough for senpai not to want to be their boyfriend. At that point, the 'target' is 'neutralized', and while it's not the prettiest and kindest part of the game, it's still better than all the lethal paths. Now, if [B][I]you [/I][/B] out of [B][I]your own will[/I][/B] want to keep going at it until she can't take it anymore, that's on [B][I]you [/I][/B] and your conscience. Is it disturbing giving you the ability to do that? Arguable. But then you should also rag at Undertale for a certain ending.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51715634]I really don't get where this is coming from or how some people are so fragile that this unnerves them. [/QUOTE] Because it's fucking creepy for a game to even have the option to literally bully a girl into suicide. Yes, that's fucking fun. Can you give me a list of games that let you do that that aren't on twitch's list? I don't care if your "sjw" or "anti-sjw" or some shit, that option is creepy and disturbing. That goes beyond reason.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715652]Because it's fucking creepy for a game to have even the option to literally bully a girl into suicide. Yes, that's fucking fun. Can you give me a list of games that let you do that that aren't on twitch's list?[/QUOTE] Same thing could be said about a game where an option is to pull a person's teeth out as torture. [QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715652] I don't care if your "sjw" or "anti-sjw" or some shit, that option is creepy and disturbing. That goes beyond reason.[/QUOTE] Also, come up with an adjective other than creepy. It just makes you sound overly squeemish.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715652]Because it's fucking creepy for a game to even have the option to literally bully a girl into suicide. Yes, that's fucking fun. Can you give me a list of games that let you do that that aren't on twitch's list? I don't care if your "sjw" or "anti-sjw" or some shit, that option is creepy and disturbing. That goes beyond reason.[/QUOTE] No but can you actually explain why. Dont go "but its X because its X and this out of context Y game mechanic backs me up" actually support your claim with an argument like everyone else, you're not getting any special privileges here.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51715662]Same thing could be said about a game where an option is to pull a person's teeth out as torture.[/QUOTE] What? GTA V? The one where it has an underlying message about that whole scene? Because I am having a hard time seeing the underlying message in this game. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51715670]No but can you actually explain why. Dont go "but its X because its X and this out of context Y game mechanic backs me up" actually support your claim with an argument like everyone else, you're not getting any special privileges here.[/QUOTE] Out of context? That's not out of context. That is the goal of the game - disable the other girls by ANY MEANS necessary. Thats an option, I don't think it's encouraged (just "there",) but it shouldn't be an option. I still have yet to see what other games have that option. That's where it crosses the line for me. It's meaningless and creepy. Hitman is again, a perfect contrast. Still a murder simulator, but not even close to the levels of creepy this game reaches.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715671] Out of context? That's not out of context. That is the goal of the game - disable the other girls by ANY MEANS necessary. Thats an option, I don't think it's encouraged, but it shouldn't be an option. I still have yet to see what other games have that option. That's where it crosses the line for me.[/QUOTE] You can have sex with prostitutes then murder them in cold blood to get your money back in GTA, thats also perfectly acceptable? It comes down to player decisions. Its on you if you do that. The game mechanic is in place for a purpose and that purpose can be achieved without resulting in death unless you push it there. You say out of context that you can bully girls into suicide, however in context the entire meaning of that mechanic changes completely, you bully them to keep them away from your target, bullying them into suicide is not necessary.
[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51715671]Out of context? That's not out of context. That is the goal of the game - disable the other girls by ANY MEANS necessary. Thats an option, I don't think it's encouraged, [B]but it shouldn't be an option[/B]. I still have yet to see what other games have that option. That's where it crosses the line for me.[/QUOTE] Please arbiter of moral decency in fiction, tell us all the things that can and can't be done in fictional entertainment. Tell us what meanings are justification for horrible things and what aren't in FICTIONAL entertainment. [QUOTE=AaronM202;51715686]It comes down to player decisions. Its on you if you do that. The game mechanic is in place for a purpose and that purpose can be achieved without resulting in death unless you push it there. [/QUOTE] Honestly this is getting dangerously Sarkeesian-esque. You have the option to kill exclusively women, ergo this game is misogynist.
And why shouldnt it be an option? Can you give a rational explanation as to why? The setting provides context to the option existing, and its one of many options you have. Yes, it happens in reality, thats bad, but so does murder, kidnapping, and torture.
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