[QUOTE=AaronM202;51715921]Holy shit can you actually give anyone an argument behind your opinion.
Also the SJW thing is a possibility, not a reality, in his mind. Nobody told him the ban reason, so he's speculating, jesus christ.
[editline]23rd January 2017[/editline]
Also Hitman is LITERALLY A SERIAL KILLER/MURDER SIMULATOR AND NOBODY GIVES A SHIT.[/QUOTE]
I would argue that with Hitman that it is a Puzzle Murder Simulator.
Nobody gives a shit because that's what hitmen do, they do hits/kills for money. Also the fact they AREN'T BUTCHERING HIGH/JUINOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IN THE 5 GAMES HE'S IN.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51715905]lmao fuck this dude. Makes like the most disgusting game ever, then makes a whiny video blaming ~sjw's~ for getting his already abhorrent game banned.
Maybe don't make what is essentially a serial killer simulator if you want to be treated like a normal developer???[/QUOTE]
You're right, we should also ban Hitman, Postal 1/2, Party Hard, Hotline Miami, Assassins Creed, Friday the 13th, Manhunt, Hatred, and all of these other games that make Wafflemonstr, a good Christian gamer, feel confident about gaming.
Since Twitch blacklists games based on how ESRB would rate them, I think you guys should learn about how games are rated.
They don't take into account what is optional, but what is accessible to anyone playing the game.
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51715986]I would argue that with Hitman that it is a Puzzle Murder Simulator.
Nobody gives a shit because that's what hitmen do, they do hits/kills for money. Also the fact they AREN'T BUTCHERING SCHOOL KIDS IN THE 5 GAMES HE'S IN.[/QUOTE]
And yet Hitman, a murder simulator, plays the murder far more seriously than this game does (in some games anyway, Contracts was depressingly dark in tone for example), while this game is a cartoony uguu thing with over the top silly anime tropes thats difficult to take seriously, yet the murder in it, which isnt even necessary unlike Hitman, is being treated as damning.
Yandere Simulator is a boring game and Yandare Dev is a straight busta
:dog:
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51715993]You can play Postal 2 as a serial killer simulator and you're allowed to stream it on twitch.
You should probably try and form a real argument before you start yapping off[/QUOTE]
The devil is in the detail.
Postal 2 is rated M.
Manhunt 2 is rated AO.
Read the ESRB descriptions.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51715993]You can play Postal 2 as a serial killer simulator and you're allowed to stream it on twitch.
You should probably try and form a real argument before you start yapping off[/QUOTE]
Postal 2 is an apt comparison because, if im not mistaken, just like Postal 2, YandereDev said while killing is easier, its entirely possible to do a pacifist run without taking a single life.
[editline]23rd January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Talvy;51716003]Postal 2 is rated M.
Manhunt 2 (uncut), on the other hand, is rated AO.
Read the ESRB reviews. The devil is in the details.[/QUOTE]
I'd attribute that to the satire. The Manhunt series is explicitly about or thematically tied to and stylistically reminiscent of snuff films.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51716006]I'd attribute that to the satire. The Manhunt series is explicitly about or thematically tied to and stylistically reminiscent of snuff films.[/QUOTE]
Content rating systems only really care about objective details:
[QUOTE=Postal 2]Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Mature Humor, Strong Language, Use of Drugs[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Manhunt 2]Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Talvy;51716042]Content rating systems only really care about objective details.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but people judge them so its subjective no matter what.
[QUOTE=Talvy;51715991]Since Twitch blacklists games based on how ESRB [B]would[/B] rate them, I think you should all learn something about how games are rated. They don't take into account what is optional, but what is accessible to anyone playing the game.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's quite the case. From the [URL="https://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_process.aspx"]Rating Process from ESRB[/URL] (FOR BOXED/PHYSICAL COPIES OF GAMES):
[QUOTE]Once checked to ensure that all pertinent content disclosed in the completed questionnaire is reflected in the DVD submitted, [B]the DVD is reviewed by a group of at least three trained raters who collectively deliberate about what rating should be assigned[/B]. Once the raters reach consensus on the appropriate Rating Category and Content Descriptors, [B]ESRB staff reviews the raters' recommendation and may conduct a parity review to maintain consistency in rating assignments[/B]. A Rating Summary is finalized shortly thereafter, providing additional detail about the key factors that contributed to the rating assignment, including specific examples of game content or attributes. [B]The final rating is then issued to the publisher, which may either accept it as final or revise the game's content and resubmit it to the ESRB, at which time the process starts anew[/B].[/QUOTE]
Of course, Yandere Simulator isn't being distributed physically yet, but the point was that the ESRB's job is done by trained professionals who make a living out of adequately rating videogames. Let's take a look at the procedure for digital games:
(FOR DIGITALLY DISTRIBUTED GAMES):
[QUOTE][B]Publishers of these digitally delivered games and apps complete a series of multiple-choice questions that address content across relevant categories[/B] (as described above). The questionnaire also asks questions related to a game's interactive components, such as the enabling of user interactions or the sharing of a user's physical location or personal information, if it enables the purchase of digital goods, and/or if unrestricted Internet access is provided. [B]The responses to these questions automatically determine the game's Rating Category, Content Descriptors and Interactive Elements, which are issued immediately upon completion of the questionnaire. Because these products are rated by an automated process they do not receive Rating Summaries.[/B]
[B]Due to the volume of digitally delivered games and apps, ESRB works with developers, the mobile community at large and storefronts that display ESRB ratings to identify rating issues whenever possible.[/B] This augments ESRB's own testing of digitally delivered games and apps to ensure that appropriate ratings have been assigned. In the event content was not fully or accurately disclosed by the developer, the rating displayed will be promptly corrected or, in egregious cases, the game may be removed from the store.[/QUOTE]
Twitch did not disclose any (not even incomplete!) forms/procedures used to judge the game, they did not work with the developer at all, and continue to stay silent about it. That's the whole gist of the controversy. From the day it was banned, the action was always seen as a kneejerk reaction to a really weird game.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51715993]You can play Postal 2 as a serial killer simulator and you're allowed to stream it on twitch.
You should probably try and form a real argument before you start yapping off[/QUOTE]
in postal 2, it being over the top is the joke. in yandere simulator there is no joke beyond the reference to the yandere character trope
[QUOTE=butre;51716147]in postal 2, it being over the top is the joke. in yandere simulator there is no joke beyond the reference to the yandere character trope[/QUOTE]
Yandere Sim is over the top as well, just in a different, not as in your face way.
You unlock different panties for stat boosts like come on.
Twitch just fears negative press. While would they risk losing potential advertisers for a no name indie game? In the case of the AAA games used as examples, there is already big companies that work with backlashes and that enables Twitch to play it safe. True, they are hypocrites but from their pov it is still better to just ban it and not talk about it than causing unnecessary drama.
Also:
-Hitman: Genetically enhanced professional adult assassin kills other adults
-YanSim: Average teenage girl (potentially) kills and/or bullies other teenagers to suicide in a [U]school[/U] environment
While they may have similar gameplay elements, you must be blind to not see the difference between the two games thematically.
I will probably buy it and have dumb fun with it, but I won't pretend it is not some creepy fantasy murder sim.
[QUOTE=patrioticturtle;51716161]
Also:
-Hitman: Genetically enhanced professional adult assassin kills other adults
-YanSim: Average teenage girl (potentially) kills and/or bullies other teenagers to suicide in a [U]school[/U] environment
While they may have similar gameplay elements, you must be blind to not see the difference between the two games thematically.
I will probably buy it and have dumb fun with it, but I won't pretend it is not some creepy fantasy murder sim.[/QUOTE]
I recognize the difference and raise the fact that slasher movies have used teens and schools as settings for decades (i know, movies =/= games but stay with me here), i cant name any games off the top of my head besides Last Year which isnt out yet, if anyone knows of more that'd be welcome because im sure there are dozens of examples.
I know Silent Hill has set stuff in schools and i think featured baby or childlike enemies (i do know theres a lot of creepy sexual overtones and pyramid head rape, however :v:). The idea of something involving death, or the deaths of a minor, at the hands of the player, in a school environment at that, arent entirely foreign to video games.
[editline]23rd January 2017[/editline]
Didnt Dead Space 2 have you slaughtering zombie babies in a bloodied nursery at one point?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;51715905]lmao fuck this dude. Makes like the most disgusting game ever, then makes a whiny video blaming ~sjw's~ for getting his already abhorrent game banned.
Maybe don't make what is essentially a serial killer simulator if you want to be treated like a normal developer???[/QUOTE]
I'll take "person who has never played the game" for $200
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51716184]I know Silent Hill has set stuff in schools and i think featured baby or childlike enemies (i do know theres a lot of creepy sexual overtones and pyramid head rape, however :v:). The idea of something involving death, or the deaths of a minor, at the hands of the player, in a school environment at that, arent entirely foreign to video games.[/QUOTE]
I think it has something to do with suspension of disbelief.
I mean it is easy to see a game or film with sci-fi or supernatural humans or monsters killing other people (whether they are kids or adults) and be like "okay this is pretty fucked up but is very unlikely this will ever happen so might as well I just have fun with it".
But with YS, besides the cartoony artstyle, there is not enough unrealistic elements to make it easy for you to not take it at face value.
Quick example is the Binding of Isaac. You have this toddler in an abusive household hiding from his delusional mother. Why is this okay in this case? Because then you have a very simplistic and childish view of the world in that game, fighting unrealistic and grotesque monsters with your tears. It is so over the top it is comical and makes it hard to take the game's lore serious.
And for another extreme example, there was that Japanese rape game back in the days that played the premise too straight to make it comical in any shape or form. You just felt dirty after it. I think that is the crux of the problem in Yandere Sim's case too.
If you don't know what anime tropes are and what it parodies, you just see a jealous kid trying to harm her fellow schoolmates. Some people will find it hard to disassociate it from reality and might find it "too real", if that makes sense.
(damn, I swear in my head this post looked way shorter)
[QUOTE=patrioticturtle;51716369]I think it has something to do with suspension of disbelief.
I mean it is easy to see a game or film with sci-fi or supernatural humans or monsters killing other people (whether they are kids or adults) and be like "okay this is pretty fucked up but is very unlikely this will ever happen so might as well I just have fun with it".
But with YS, besides the cartoony artstyle, there is not enough unrealistic elements to make it easy for you to not take it at face value.
Quick example is the Binding of Isaac. You have this toddler in an abusive household hiding from his delusional mother. Why is this okay in this case? Because then you have a very simplistic and childish view of the world in that game, fighting unrealistic and grotesque monsters with your tears. It is so over the top it is comical and makes it hard to take the game's lore serious.
And for another extreme example, there was that Japanese rape game back in the days that played the premise too straight to make it comical in any shape or form. You just felt dirty after it. I think that is the crux of the problem in Yandere Sim's case too.
If you don't know what anime tropes are and what it parodies, you just see a jealous kid trying to harm her fellow schoolmates. Some people will find it hard to disassociate it from reality and might find it "too real", if that makes sense.
(damn, I swear in my head this post looked way shorter)[/QUOTE]
First, thank you for actually coming up with something reasonable.
Yeah i can see that, maybe im just used to video games with close to reality settings yet absurd actions within them, but i dont see this as being as bad as some other people see it. I can certainly see how people can be unsettled by it, but there are people painting it in such an objective black and white "this is how it is and its AWFUL" way, misrepresenting the actual game itself, which is an awful way to look at it, especially when YandereDev has mentioned he's perfectly willing to cooperate with Twitch and remove anything that crosses a line.
[QUOTE=Naota1248;51713183]
I've never heard of someone that is talented enough to code a game AND make all of the visual/audio assets. Maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I would like to believe that his contributors will get credit and compensation for their hard work![/QUOTE]
Its not common but some people do have the talent to do it all, like the developer of Zerahypt, Syrsa
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51715921]Holy shit can you actually give anyone an argument behind your opinion.
Also the SJW thing is a possibility, not a reality, in his mind. Nobody told him the ban reason, so he's speculating, jesus christ.
[editline]23rd January 2017[/editline]
Also Hitman is LITERALLY A SERIAL KILLER/MURDER SIMULATOR AND NOBODY GIVES A SHIT.[/QUOTE]
Three of the people at Amazon/Twitch who make 'the large decisions' on branding have serious issues with any kind of depictions of sex (remember all the Witcher bullshit?, pepperidge farm remembers) much less a game that implies that sexual assault (offscreen or not) on a minor is part of the 'advanced endgame', [b]optional or not[/b] is pretty much destined for the banning block. Given the game author is rather loud and open about his fetishes in his youtube channel, yes you could see this coming a mile away, and no it's not a mystery why.
Given other content on Twitch that is still viewable by minors and the like, is this hypocrisy incarnate?
Very Probably.
Is that going to have any bearing on getting this game unbanned?
Nope, because it's not going to get unbanned. I guarantee Izzy Galvez and couple of his buddies have already shown the author's channel commentaries to his higher ups, and the chances of this game ever getting on Twitch are zilch.
The ratio of children supporting the game in the comment section quite something...
Did he ever upgrade the game from High School to Academy yet? I stopped following/watching his videos when he kept complaining about those damn emails.
[editline]4[/editline]
I feel that if he just removed children, then twitch would allow his game.
Regardless of your opinion of the game, let's just bring the community guidelines into view again.
[quote]Nudity can't be a core focus or feature of the game in question, and modded nudity is disallowed in its entirety. Occurrences of in-game nudity are permitted, so long as you do not make them a primary focus of your content and only spend as much time as needed in the area to progress the game's story. Games rated Adults Only (AO) by the ESRB are not permitted in content on Twitch.[/quote]
This game doesn't focus on nudity, nor is it rated AO by the ESRB. Therefore the game should be allowed on Twitch, case closed.
They either need to update the guidelines to include "no games with creepy schoolgirl murder fantasy" or unban the game, it's that simple.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51716653]
[editline]4[/editline]
I feel that if he just removed children, then twitch would allow his game.[/QUOTE]
[B][I]Technically[/I][/B], they're all 18 or higher, by YanDev's word
[editline]24th January 2017[/editline]
as memey as it sounds
[QUOTE=butre;51716147]in postal 2, it being over the top is the joke. in yandere simulator there is no joke beyond the reference to the yandere character trope[/QUOTE]
there's no joke other than the joke?
[editline]p[/editline]
which isn't even true to begin with, some of the clubs are pretty ridiculous for example
guess you missed the delinquents with pompadours
[QUOTE=Stroheim;51715986]I would argue that with Hitman that it is a Puzzle Murder Simulator.
Nobody gives a shit because that's what hitmen do, they do hits/kills for money. Also the fact they AREN'T BUTCHERING HIGH/JUINOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IN THE 5 GAMES HE'S IN.[/QUOTE]
I mean if it's fine for hitman because its what hitmen do, it's fine for a yandere because it's what yanderes do. Just because your less familiar with the trope doesnt make it less acceptable. It's literally just the same thing in yansim except with more nonviolent options.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51716653]Did he ever upgrade the game from High School to Academy yet? I stopped following/watching his videos when he kept complaining about those damn emails.
[editline]4[/editline]
I feel that if he just removed children, then twitch would allow his game.[/QUOTE]
Well he can't tell if that's the issue because they won't tell him what the problem is
hence the video
[QUOTE=27X;51716484]much less a game that implies that sexual assault (offscreen or not)[/QUOTE]
Where in the entire game or it's associated media has this even come up? The torture scenes? Those are implied to be merely physical damage.
I mean, yeah, the game is creepy, and is obviously in bad taste to a number of people. But it's also enjoying a great deal of popularity as well, so it's not just "for weird, creepy people", and weird creepy people can't have nice things as we all know.
People (especially on reddit) talk a lot about rape. What rape? There is no sex, implied or shown.
I actually remember e-mailing him just to be a dick after he posted that "Yandere Dev's Biggest Problem" video.
Well I sent a message off to one of the twitch staff I know. I'll see if anything comes from it.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.