Hollandistan; government tells criticasters 'it's not that bad'; new Mosque with call for prayer
80 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bucketboy;49198613]If your really volunteering at a shelter then you are probably planning on burning the place down when the time is right.
You claim to be helping them and yet your shit posting about them since the Paris incident.
If you really are helping them then you should not be so fucking critical of them. Your just full of shit Rumbler.
If you want to keep preaching then make a single thread in the fast thread section. Stop spamming threads and telling us your hate for every single immigrant and then claim to be a volunteer at a shelter.
In my opinion, you should go back and hide in your tiny bunker and keep telling your self lies.[/QUOTE]
These number focus only on the Netherlands, but they're relatively the same throughout Europe.
[b]Incarceration:[/b]
[url=http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bijna-63-procent-van-gevangenen-nederland-allochtoon]63% of prisoners in the Netherlands are immigrants[/url]
In 2013 there were 43.000 people incarcerated after being convicted of a crime. 63% of those people belong to immigrant ethnicities. 10,6% of total prison population is from Maroccan descent alone.
They make up only 2% of the entire population here in the Netherlands!
Those numbers are incredibly askew. And before you start questioning the validity.. they come from the CBS which is the governmental statistics bureau.
[b]Welfare dependancy:[/b]
[url=http://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/menu/themas/dossiers/allochtonen/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2015/zeven-van-de-tien-somaliers-in-de-bijstand.htm]CentralBureauStatistics: Welfare[/url]
17% of Turks receive immigrants welfare.
25% of Maroccans immigrants receive welfare.
69% of Somalians immigrants receive welfare.
58% of Iraquees immigrants receive welfare.
62% of Syrians immigrants receive welfare.
46% of Afghanist immigrants receive welfare.
42% of Iranians immigrants receive welfare.
50% of Eritreans immigrants receive welfare.
How about immigrants from other area's?
Only [b]2%[/b] of polish immigrants receive welfare.
How about the natives?
Only [b]3%[/b] receive welfare.
[b]Criminality[/b]
Maroccan-Dutchmen are 5.8 times as often criminal than Western-immigrants, and 6.2 times as criminal as the natives.
I'll look up the source if you want, but it's very close to those numbers. I will be having friends over... its friday night so I'll be back tomorrow.
You can't honestly think these are numbers of healthy integration can you?
You are seriously suggesting calling me a racist, and stopping the discussion and leaving this be is better????
We should fix this. Not only because they are a massive burden on the Dutch taxpayers, but also because these people are incredibly unhappy themselves in their current social position which I experience three times a day.
You mean well and think you're on their side except for reality is different, which you'd known if you werent a computer-based SJW.
We need to fix this asap, and you're sabotaging the discussion every step of the way by your childish racism accusations.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49198796]These number focus only on the Netherlands, but they're relatively the same throughout Europe.
[b]Incarceration:[/b]
[url=http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binnenland/bijna-63-procent-van-gevangenen-nederland-allochtoon]63% of prisoners in the Netherlands are immigrants[/url]
In 2013 there were 43.000 people incarcerated after being convicted of a crime. 63% of those people belong to immigrant ethnicities. 10,6% of total prison population is from Maroccan descent alone.
They make up only 2% of the entire population here in the Netherlands!
Those numbers are incredibly askew. And before you start questioning the validity.. they come from the CBS which is the governmental statistics bureau.
[b]Welfare dependancy:[/b]
[url=http://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/menu/themas/dossiers/allochtonen/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2015/zeven-van-de-tien-somaliers-in-de-bijstand.htm]CentralBureauStatistics: Welfare[/url]
17% of Turks receive immigrants welfare.
25% of Maroccans immigrants receive welfare.
69% of Somalians immigrants receive welfare.
58% of Iraquees immigrants receive welfare.
62% of Syrians immigrants receive welfare.
46% of Afghanist immigrants receive welfare.
42% of Iranians immigrants receive welfare.
50% of Eritreans immigrants receive welfare.
How about immigrants from other area's?
Only [b]2%[/b] of polish immigrants receive welfare.
How about the natives?
Only [b]3%[/b] receive welfare.
[b]Criminality[/b]
Maroccan-Dutchmen are 5.8 times as often criminal than Western-immigrants, and 6.2 times as criminal as the natives.
I'll look up the source if you want, but it's very close to those numbers. I will be having friends over... its friday night so I'll be back tomorrow.
You can't honestly think these are numbers of healthy integration can you?
You are seriously suggesting calling me a racist, and stopping the discussion and leaving this be is better????
We should fix this. Not only because they are a massive burden on the Dutch taxpayers, but also because these people are incredibly unhappy themselves in their current social position which I experience three times a day.
You mean well and think you're on their side except for reality is different, which you'd known if you werent a computer-based SJW.
We need to fix this asap, and you're sabotaging the discussion every step of the way by your childish racism accusations.[/QUOTE]
it's almost like a population that gets discriminated against regularly becomes disenfranchised and has a harder time actually getting a decent job, leading them to turn to crime and welfare to survive.
kicking them out isn't going to fix that. not being a dick to refugees or migrants and actually attempting to accept them into your society will. migration is always going to be a thing, fucking deal with it and learn to adapt much like they have to.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49198877]it's almost like a population that gets discriminated against regularly becomes disenfranchised and has a harder time actually getting a decent job, leading them to turn to crime and welfare to survive.
kicking them out isn't going to fix that. not being a dick to refugees or migrants and actually attempting to accept them into your society will. migration is always going to be a thing, fucking deal with it and learn to adapt much like they have to.[/QUOTE]
Ah i see. So the Dutch are just racists who all got together and arbitrarily chose to all discriminate against muslims. We accept and live in harmony with people from many different cultures and ethnicities.
You're right. We've got this figured out.
Btw this same problem is livid in all Western countries so I guess all western natives got together in your mind and all agreed to just arbitralily agreed to just discriminate against this group.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49198877]it's almost like a population that gets discriminated against regularly becomes disenfranchised and has a harder time actually getting a decent job, leading them to turn to crime and welfare to survive.
kicking them out isn't going to fix that. not being a dick to refugees or migrants and actually attempting to accept them into your society will. migration is always going to be a thing, fucking deal with it and learn to adapt much like they have to.[/QUOTE]
I hope you have some evidence to back up this claim
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49198877]it's almost like a population that gets discriminated against regularly becomes disenfranchised and has a harder time actually getting a decent job, leading them to turn to crime and welfare to survive.
kicking them out isn't going to fix that. not being a dick to refugees or migrants and actually attempting to accept them into your society will. migration is always going to be a thing, fucking deal with it and learn to adapt much like they have to.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe they should have integrated so that they actually have a chance of getting a decent job, just like the Indonesians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Surinamese and the Caribbeanians did.
Look. We didn't force them to integrate. It was all up to themselves. There are more than enough opportunities for them to integrate successfully enough into Dutch society, which a part of them do and thus do land a decent job without anyone treating them different. Unfortunately, it is a significantly tinier percentage compared to the other minorities I named earlier.
[QUOTE=Jordax;49199246]Or maybe they should have integrated so that they actually have a chance of getting a decent job, just like the Indonesians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Surinamese and the Caribbeanians did.[/QUOTE]
They didn't integrate overnight. Why are we expecting refugees, people who otherwise would not have planned to come over, to integrate overnight? It took decades for those cultures to be seen as "a part" of their new host culture, and even then there are still issues amongst the "natives" with them in a lot of places.
The refugee crisis hasn't been ongoing long enough to actually give these guys a chance to integrate at all in any meaningful way. It's not uncommon for first generation migrants to end up grouping together when migrating.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199299]They didn't integrate overnight. Why are we expecting refugees, people who otherwise would not have planned to come over, to integrate overnight? It took decades for those cultures to be seen as "a part" of their new host culture, and even then there are still issues amongst the "natives" with them in a lot of places.
The refugee crisis hasn't been ongoing long enough to actually give these guys a chance to integrate at all in any meaningful way. It's not uncommon for first generation migrants to end up grouping together when migrating.[/QUOTE]
Because the muslims we are talking about have been here since the 1960's in the Netherlands.
Theyve not been exposed to any expectations that were any different to what was expected from other immigrants....
Thats the entire fucking point...
Most of the people in the statistics Ive posted are 2nd or 3rd generation Dutch-born...
Stop squirming to be able to apologize. Im having to drag you kicking and screaming into reality here.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49199245]I hope you have some evidence to back up this claim[/QUOTE]
oh idk just look at most minority groups in western countries today?
Black people (well, black sounding names, whilst we're here) in the US and UK have been found to be treated unfairly during the hiring process for whatever reason[1] (hint: it's not that they're unqualified)
Many people, y'know, the guys that create the culture by existing? Still throw around racist jokes and think less of those with different skin colours (racism still isn't dead guys).
Racial profiling in police affairs is still a big thing.
Compound those issues and many more and you have a population that is likely fucking [I]done[/I] with that shit. They can't get a job because their name sounds too exotic, they can't drive a nice car as it's deemed "suspicious" and they get stopped. Slap in some resentment from people who genuinely think their entire country is being shafted just to give these guys golden shitters and diamond grills or whatever and you've got a lovely recipe for making it hard to integrate.
[1] [url]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/[/url] (secondary source I know, boo hoo this isn't my thesis)
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199345]oh idk just look at most minority groups in western countries today?
Black people (well, black sounding names, whilst we're here) in the US and UK have been found to be treated unfairly during the hiring process for whatever reason[1] (hint: it's not that they're unqualified)
Many people, y'know, the guys that create the culture by existing? Still throw around racist jokes and think less of those with different skin colours (racism still isn't dead guys).
Racial profiling in police affairs is still a big thing.
Compound those issues and many more and you have a population that is likely fucking [I]done[/I] with that shit. They can't get a job because their name sounds too exotic, they can't drive a nice car as it's deemed "suspicious" and they get stopped. Slap in some resentment from people who genuinely think their entire country is being shafted just to give these guys golden shitters and diamond grills or whatever and you've got a lovely recipe for making it hard to integrate.
[1] [url]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/[/url] (secondary source I know, boo hoo this isn't my thesis)[/QUOTE]
what do the UK and the US have to do with the netherlands?
You're saying that the crime and welfare statistics in the netherlands are caused by discriminatory practices on the part of the natives, you can't just assert that as fact without any corroborative evidence
Hm... This has got me thinking, are there any restrictions against Mosques broadcasting a radio channel for the call to prayer? Does it have to be played through loudspeakers? It seems like that would alleviate most of the problems with noise issues, and minarets could probably be converted to radio towers fairly easily.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49199327]Because the muslims we are talking about have been here since the 1960's in the Netherlands.
Theyve not been exposed to any expectations that were any different to what was expected from other immigrants....
Thats the entire fucking point...[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked you were ranting and raving about the immigration crisis. Not Muslims that have been around for a while.
And even then, 100% integration (from the sounds of it, that means eradicating their own culture in yours eyes?) isn't a reasonable goal. The world is more connected now more than ever, it's not going to be a smooth ride as culture clashes will happen. But that doesn't mean we puss out and just start sending people back. We push on, and over the generations these cultures do mesh in some way.
There are tons of Muslims that I know who are pretty well integrated with "British culture", and some that aren't as such and tend to stay in their communities more. But that's all anecdotal, like most of your evidence. So it's not super useful for actually discussing the legislative requirements of the situation.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199345]oh idk just look at most minority groups in western countries today?
Black people (well, black sounding names, whilst we're here) in the US and UK have been found to be treated unfairly during the hiring process for whatever reason[1] (hint: it's not that they're unqualified)
Many people, y'know, the guys that create the culture by existing? Still throw around racist jokes and think less of those with different skin colours (racism still isn't dead guys).
Racial profiling in police affairs is still a big thing.
Compound those issues and many more and you have a population that is likely fucking [I]done[/I] with that shit. They can't get a job because their name sounds too exotic, they can't drive a nice car as it's deemed "suspicious" and they get stopped. Slap in some resentment from people who genuinely think their entire country is being shafted just to give these guys golden shitters and diamond grills or whatever and you've got a lovely recipe for making it hard to integrate.
[1] [url]http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/[/url] (secondary source I know, boo hoo this isn't my thesis)[/QUOTE]
Completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Racism is real yes, especially in America but Im sorry....you cant just extrapolate this to a similar topic and then claim the thesis is still equally valid.
Please try again
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49199395]Completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Racism is real yes, especially in America but Im sorry....you cant just extrapolate this to a similar topic and then claim the thesis is still equally valid.
Please try again[/QUOTE]
Irrelevant because you said so? That's not really how it works.
Racism is still pretty much everywhere, it's not a US-centric thing, it's not just shouting "FUCKING NIGGERS AND KIKES" all day either. You're probably retarded if you think such things. Racism can be subtle. A distrust in those of a different race, a negative thought at the idea of someone of another race getting something you don't have.
So tell me. How does racism not apply as a plausible reason for the integration of these new migrants?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199461]Irrelevant because you said so? That's not really how it works.
Racism is still pretty much everywhere, it's not a US-centric thing, it's not just shouting "FUCKING NIGGERS AND KIKES" all day either. You're probably retarded if you think such things. Racism can be subtle. A distrust in those of a different race, a negative thought at the idea of someone of another race getting something you don't have.
So tell me. How does racism not apply as a plausible reason for the integration of these new migrants?[/QUOTE]
I just said so.
Youre claiming western society has just arbitrarily muslims to discriminate.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49199552]I just said so.
Youre claiming western society has just arbitrarily muslims to discriminate.[/QUOTE]
Western society arbitrarily discriminates/discriminated against societies from all over the east (and west). What's your point? We aren't suddenly being shits to muslims, we're being shits to muslims like we were with Indians, Chinese, fuck even Polish people over here still get shit.
People discriminate against every-fucking-one all the time. But rather than give in to that and wall ourselves off why don't we work to fix that?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199572]Western society arbitrarily discriminates/discriminated against societies from all over the east (and west). What's your point? We aren't suddenly being shits to muslims, we're being shits to muslims like we were with Indians, Chinese, fuck even Polish people over here still get shit.
People discriminate against every-fucking-one all the time. But rather than give in to that and wall ourselves off why don't we work to fix that?[/QUOTE]
except we've already established that in the netherlands chinese, indian, and polish immigrants are far and away more successful than their middle eastern counterparts
So what evidence leads you to assume that the netherlands are especially discriminatory against middle easterners?
how about we first provide evidence to support your currently unfounded assertions before coming up with a plan of action under the assumption that they're correct?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49198877]it's almost like a population that gets discriminated against regularly becomes disenfranchised and has a harder time actually getting a decent job, leading them to turn to crime and welfare to survive.
kicking them out isn't going to fix that. not being a dick to refugees or migrants and actually attempting to accept them into your society will. migration is always going to be a thing, fucking deal with it and learn to adapt much like they have to.[/QUOTE]
Victim blaming, an interesting stance.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;49199572]Western society arbitrarily discriminates/discriminated against societies from all over the east (and west). What's your point? We aren't suddenly being shits to muslims, we're being shits to muslims like we were with Indians, Chinese, fuck even Polish people over here still get shit.
People discriminate against every-fucking-one all the time. But rather than give in to that and wall ourselves off why don't we work to fix that?[/QUOTE]
This shows again and again that I'm talking to a brick wall completely.
You've put me in the box in your mind labelled xenophobe immigrant-hater, and even if I turn out to be a 2nd generation Maroccan myself now... I'd still be in there.
[QUOTE=Rumbler;49209315]This shows again and again that I'm talking to a brick wall completely.
You've put me in the box in your mind labelled xenophobe immigrant-hater, and even if I turn out to be a 2nd generation Maroccan myself now... I'd still be in there.[/QUOTE]
there are many people like that on this forum, which is very saddening
also, there are people who support you with your opinions even if most people surge to call you racist
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