[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305537]Read the first three lines of my post.
I accept evolution, I'm explaining why it's technically a theory.[/QUOTE]
but i even if we prove it, it is still a theory
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24305475]macro evolution is just micro evolution but over time. its not like one day a fish get legs or a squid gets eyes, its slowly happens.[/QUOTE]
Fish formed legs from the removal of the actinodin 1 and 2 genes over time. We've induced this in lab tests when actinodin 1 and 2 were removed form fish embryos. The fish did not form fins but rather nubs.
To me, if you accept micro evolution there should be no question about macro.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305503]
But we've seen micro evolution, we technically haven't seen macro.[/QUOTE]
If you want to see a type of Macro evolution in an observable time spam study bacteria in an environment that stresses them to change by slowly killing off all their natural food sources. After a few months most of the bacteria will die, but you will find the occasional bacteria that has adapted to the new toxic environment, no it is not a new species but it is now a sub species that has adapted to its new environment and will continue to adapt and change.
Thats pretty much Micro evolution moving into Macro evolution over an extended period of time, in another 50 years you may see a new species of bacteria due to the fast reproduction rates.
[QUOTE=OvB;24305555]Fish formed legs from the removal of the actinodin 1 and 2 genes over time. We've induced this in lab tests when actinodin 1 and 2 were removed form fish embryos. The fish did not form fins but rather nubs.
To me, if you accept micro evolution there should be no question about macro.[/QUOTE]
Thats because there really is no difference.
[QUOTE=OvB;24305555]Fish formed legs from the removal of the actinodin 1 and 2 genes over time. We've induced this in lab tests when actinodin 1 and 2 were removed form fish embryos. The fish did not form fins but rather nubs.
To me, if you accept micro evolution there should be no question about macro.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305537]Read the first three lines of my post.
I accept evolution, I'm explaining why it's technically a theory.[/QUOTE]
People on this forum are gun-ho to jump into a fight.
If you don't believe in evolution, you don't know what it is.
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24305566]If you want to see a type of Macro evolution in an observable time spam study bacteria in an environment that stresses them to change by slowly killing off all their natural food sources. After a few months most of the bacteria will die, but you will find the occasional bacteria that has adapted to the new toxic environment, no it is not a new species but it is now a sub species that has adapted to its new environment and will continue to adapt and change.
Thats pretty much Micro evolution moving into Macro evolution over an extended period of time, in another 50 years you may see a new species of bacteria due to the fast reproduction rates.
Thats because there really is no difference.[/QUOTE]
Except bacteria reproduce asexually, as far as i'm aware it's only become macro-evolution if the two species can no longer interbreed effectively.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305575]People on this forum are gun-ho to jump into a fight.[/QUOTE]
I'm not fighting, I'm just adding that little tidbit of information.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305595]Except bacteria reproduce asexually, as far as i'm aware it's only become macro-evolution if the two species can no longer interbreed effectively.[/QUOTE]
Not all bacteria, some bacteria do swap genetic information and some bacteria can change from asexual to accept genetic information from other bacteria.
[QUOTE=Mexican;24305584]If you don't believe in evolution, you don't know what it is.[/QUOTE]
Lemme fix that for you
[QUOTE=Mexican;24305584]If you believe in evolution, you don't know what it is.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Heroms;24283351][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans[/url]
Awfully unspecific but it's still pretty clear that over 50% don't believe in evolution.
Either way, who gives a shit? Let people believe what they want to believe, it's not doing any harm to anyone else.[/QUOTE]
Except these people hold back scientific advancements and refuse to get their kids vaccinated.
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24305623]Not all bacteria, some bacteria do swap genetic information and some bacteria can change from asexual to accept genetic information from other bacteria.[/QUOTE]
However their primary method of reproduction is asexually, you know this, I know this.
Sharing plasmids or what have you isn't sexual reproduction.
My least favorite argument is "well gravity's just a theory so maybe I can fly right?" No, there's a law of gravity, stating that there is a constant force pushing down, and there is the theory of gravity, a theory about what causes the force.
In fact, one could argue the current theory of gravity is less supported by fact than the theory of macro evolution.
[QUOTE=Mexican;24305652]My least favorite argument is "well gravity's just a theory so maybe I can fly right?" No, there's a law of gravity, stating that there is a constant force pushing down, and there is the theory of gravity, a theory about what causes the force.
In fact, one could argue the current theory of gravity is less supported by fact than the theory of macro evolution.[/QUOTE]
Technically pulling you down, but yes.
[editline]11:23PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24305623]
Lemme fix that for you[/QUOTE]
You seem like a smart man, why don't you believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24305623]Lemme fix that for you[/QUOTE]
no, evolution is a confirmed fact, even if you don't believe in macro evolution
Men were made from dirt and women were made from their ribs!
Nah, we evolved from monkeys.
Actually the second one makes more sense.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305650]However their primary method of reproduction is asexually, you know this, I know this.
Sharing plasmids or what have you isn't sexual reproduction.[/QUOTE]
True but that does not detract from the bacteria changing over time, bacteria becoming immune to antibiotics is still proof of adaptations. This however has not created any new species of bacteria to this day, but they are now classified as a new sub species much like we classify domesticated animals.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305668]
You seem like a smart man, why don't you believe in evolution?[/QUOTE]
Because it is not a belief, its a scientific theory based on natural observations, do I think evolution is real, sure do. Do I consider it a fact of life, of course. However I am not going to say with 100% certainty it is correct, as there could and most likely is more to learn in the process of evolution.
[QUOTE=Zedo Mann;24305694]we evolved from monkeys.[/QUOTE]
no, common ancestors bro
[QUOTE=Zedo Mann;24305694]Men were made from dirt and women were made from their ribs!
[B]Nah, humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor.[/B]
Actually the second one makes more sense.[/QUOTE]
fixed.
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24305716]True but that does not detract from the bacteria changing over time, bacteria becoming immune to antibiotics is still proof of adaptations. This however has not created any new species of bacteria to this day, but they are now classified as a new sub species much like we classify domesticated animals.[/quote]
With your guidelines for a new species, anyone who has any sort of allergy would be part of a sub-species since they are not able to handle certain things. Right?
[quote]
Because it is not a belief, its a scientific theory based on natural observations, do I think evolution is real, sure do. Do I consider it a fact of life, of course. However I am not going to say with 100% certainty it is correct, as there could and most likely is more to learn in the process of evolution.[/QUOTE]
Except people treat it like a belief, either you accept evolution is the reason we are here or you don't, hence you believe in it or not.
There is a bit of gray area with abiogenisis, but evolution is very black and white.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305891]With your guidelines for a new species, anyone who has any sort of allergy would be part of a sub-species since they are not able to handle certain things. Right?
Except people treat it like a belief, either you accept evolution is the reason we are here or you don't, hence you believe in it or not.
There is a bit of gray area with abiogenisis, but evolution is very black and white.[/QUOTE]
A domesticated dog is a sub species of the wolf, dogs can still mate with wolves and produce viable offspring even though the dogs look and behave differently. That is a sub species, you could say Africans and Europeans are sub species of Homo Sapien if you really wanted to get into it. The fact is a sub species is only classified when enough genetic changes have happened to cause a "major" difference from the parent species.
[QUOTE=Heroms;24283351][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans[/URL]
Awfully unspecific but it's still pretty clear that over 50% don't believe in evolution.
Either way, who gives a shit? Let people believe what they want to believe, it's not doing any harm to anyone else.[/QUOTE]
Agree.
[QUOTE=Bllasae;24306166]Agree.[/QUOTE]
i would not care, but they are doing harm.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305595]Except bacteria reproduce asexually, as far as i'm aware it's only become macro-evolution if the two species can no longer interbreed effectively.[/QUOTE]
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[editline]04:06AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305891]With your guidelines for a new species, anyone who has any sort of allergy would be part of a sub-species since they are not able to handle certain things. Right?
Except people treat it like a belief, either you accept evolution is the reason we are here or you don't, hence you believe in it or not.
There is a bit of gray area with abiogenisis, but evolution is very black and white.[/QUOTE]
No it's not. You're just an uneducated layman and as such you don't know enough about biology to make distinguished opinions about evolutionary dynamics.
And actually, there is no "accept it or you don't" if you have the slightest clue as to what's true. Evolution is true. It' true in the same way that gravity is true. There is no argument.
Abiogenesis however, is a hypothesis. And as such is completely open to scrutiny.
[editline]04:07AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mexican;24305719]no, common ancestors bro[/QUOTE]
Well, technically that common ancestor was a monkey.
But hey technically we're still monkeys right now so what the hell.
[QUOTE=Heroms;24283844]Believing in a deity and calling it God or Jesus != being Christian.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry to bring this up so late, but it seems like a common misunderstanding that it's a core teaching of Christianity that the Trinity is just one entity. There are Christian belief systems, like Arianism, that do not believe so.
[editline]07:10AM[/editline]
And Jehovah's witnesses of course.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;24306259]
Well, technically that common ancestor was a monkey.
But hey technically we're still monkeys right now so what the hell.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but when you say it everyone's all THEN WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS so it's best to get into the habit
[QUOTE=Mexican;24306636]Yeah but when you say it everyone's all THEN WHY ARE THERE STILL MONKEYS so it's best to get into the habit[/QUOTE]
people are fucking stupid
no point in trying to dance around issues for their benefit when they're still just going to bury their heads in the ground
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;24306658]people are fucking stupid
no point in trying to dance around issues for their benefit when they're still just going to bury their heads in the ground[/QUOTE]
better idea, when they say that shoot them, yea its hard work but your helping your helping the world by doing it
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24283325]well i guess i will be moving to Denmark.[/QUOTE]
And I Iceland.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24305503]But we've seen micro evolution, we technically haven't seen macro.[/QUOTE]
wuts natures apm?
I have to say people who don't believe in evolution are so goddamn ignorant.
Well it is a theory, but it's a hell of a lot better than creationism. The fact that more and more people are believing in evolution is a huge improvement. Even the Catholic church has included evolution in their doctrine.
[QUOTE=Heroms;24283351][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Main_religious_preferences_of_Americans[/URL]
Awfully unspecific but it's still pretty clear that over 50% don't believe in evolution.
Either way, who gives a shit? Let people believe what they want to believe, it's not doing any harm to anyone else.[/QUOTE]
Of course it fucking is, it's harming the overall state of USA's literacy. Do you really want the world to be filled with scientifically illiterate retards?
Honestly if we let people believe what they want we'd have a shitstorm all over the place.
''I believe murder isn't wrong, so I should be totally allowed to do it!''
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