Total War: Warhammer Chaos Warriors In-Engine Trailer - General

Just wait a year or two untill there is a bundle of all DLCs together with the game, GOTY edition or so and get that. Much cheaper.

Oh man this is Warhammer fantasy too. What! That's lame.

[QUOTE=Srillo;48965511]We've seen the Orcs, Empire and Dwarves in focus but have heard scant details about the Vampire Counts, supposedly the games fourth core race. Yet 6 months ahead of release DLC for Chaos Warriors is well enough along to not only announce it but show it off. Gonna go a bit conspiracy theorist here and say that I think Chaos WAS a base faction, but SEGA/GW thought that as a business decision it net more pre-orders as a DLC tease than something like the Vampire Counts. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2S78uES.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] How does one make a Warhammer game and NOT have Chaos as a core faction? CA are just out for your money, they know the game will get torn to shreds by reviewers upon the release because it will be a buggy disaster as is their every title. They are relying on people pre-ordering. Honestly this shit right here should be illegal.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;48965740]I dunno, legality?[/QUOTE] Ah, so you don't cross on the red light either? Not gonna talk about the fact that in some countries downloading for personal use (i.e. netherlands) is perfectly legal.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;48965856]Because despite a few bad decisions (which have been ongoing in TW for years), the devs have put tons of hard work into this game and I feel like supporting them?[/QUOTE] Look, man, I get it. A Warhammer strategy game created by CA is like a dream come true, right? And from the look of things, CA are doing their very best to make this one a hell of a good time for anyone slighty into the franchise... like, they actually CARE about the license, something that can only be said for about, what, 2% of all the Warhammer video games? But that STILL doesn't excuse this. They SHOULD know better than this. I'm not that much into Warhammer fantasy, but even I know that Chaos is one of the main armies. To not have them in the core game is like not having the combine/aliens in Half-Life 2, for just like the combine, they are one of the main reason why there even is an eternal conflict to begin with. So to lock this pivotal cornerstone of the ENTIRE universe behind a paywall is greedy, dumb, and shows that they are more than willing to milk fans for extra cash since they think they can get away with it. The fact that it seems that it's feature complete, and that the Vampire lords, an army that would have made a lot more sense to sell as DLC, is now for some reason considered one of the standard armies is shit. Also, even shittier, why the hell are they focusing on showing off the apparent fucking DLC army before they have even showed off the main armies?

[QUOTE=Muggi;48966249]Look, man, I get it. A Warhammer strategy game created by CA is like a dream come true, right? And from the look of things, CA are doing their very best to make this one a hell of a good time for anyone slighty into the franchise... like, they actually CARE about the license, something that can only be said for about, what, 2% of all the Warhammer video games? But that STILL doesn't excuse this. They SHOULD know better than this. I'm not that much into Warhammer fantasy, but even I know that Chaos is one of the main armies. To not have them in the core game is like not having the combine/aliens in Half-Life 2, for just like the combine, they are one of the main reason why there even is an eternal conflict to begin with. So to lock this pivotal cornerstone of the ENTIRE universe behind a paywall is greedy, dumb, and shows that they are more than willing to milk fans for extra cash since they think they can get away with it. The fact that it seems that it's feature complete, and that the Vampire lords, an army that would have made a lot more sense to sell as DLC, is now for some reason considered one of the standard armies is shit. Also, even shittier, why the hell are they focusing on showing off the apparent fucking DLC army before they have even showed off the main armies?[/QUOTE] If there is enough outcry, I think CA will change this. Sadly the official forums will allow themselves to get castrated and pay for the pleasure of such before they get angry about anything CA does. Honestly the only other feedback they get is from youtube comments (lol) or TWC (really really awful forum). Or I give CA too much credit and they keep it. Probably the most likely outcome. My relationship with CA is seriously complex at this point.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;48967191]If there is enough outcry, I think CA will change this. Sadly the official forums will allow themselves to get castrated and pay for the pleasure of such before they get angry about anything CA does. Honestly the only other feedback they get is from youtube comments (lol) or TWC (really really awful forum).[/QUOTE] The thing is though, the forums went absolutely ballistic at the inclusion of Pontus in Rome 2, and the appearance of female warriors in Attila.

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;48967191]TWC (really really awful forum).[/quote] Tbh, TWC isn't any worse off than any other forum, especislly since opinions don't get silenced like the official tw forums.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;48963001]why not fucking ask for them to include THE MAIN ANTAGONIST RACE as a playable race period ffs. it would be like if orks or chaos marines were behind a paywall in WH40K. [editline]22nd October 2015[/editline] could you fucking imagine the outrage this would have been if dark crusade, that featured the necrons, didn't have them playable at all?[/QUOTE] It's quite possible that they wouldn't have been included at all if they weren't made DLC, so I'd much rather they be included than not. Also, Necrons were featured in Winter Assault first and were not playable. In response to their popularity, the next expansion Dark Crusade made them playable.

man the butthurt in response to this is hilarious, the droves of people claiming that the Chaos Barbarians are the 'most important' faction in the game is funny as hell. strategy games (including other 40k games!!!) have a long LONG history of not having playable bad guys that eventually come out as an expansion or what have you. Honestly I don't care one bit that Chaos isn't a playable faction in the base game but I'm pleasantly surprised that they took the time to put them into the game (and are charging significantly less than say Rise of the Lich King or Chaos Rising). [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] btw game doesn't take place during the Endtimes as far as we've seen, so no, chaos is just kind of an overlying problem to the world and not an imminent threat, at least not in comparison to the Greenskins (who are in fact a much more real and immediate issue in Warhammer fantasy) [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Srillo;48965511]We've seen the Orcs, Empire and Dwarves in focus but have heard scant details about the Vampire Counts, supposedly the games fourth core race. Yet 6 months ahead of release DLC for Chaos Warriors is well enough along to not only announce it but show it off. Gonna go a bit conspiracy theorist here and say that I think Chaos WAS a base faction, but SEGA/GW thought that as a business decision it net more pre-orders as a DLC tease than something like the Vampire Counts. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2S78uES.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] I think that another strong theory here is that they haven't finished off the Vampire Counts and don't want to show off an incomplete faction. You have to imagine the amount of work being put into each race, they're investing a shit ton into authenticity here, and each of the existing factions (or what we've seen of them) look incredibly detailed and well made for that. Most of the factions currently are pretty derivative of fantasy tropes with a warhammer twist on them, so they've got a lot to work with. Vampire Counts are a whole 'nother ballpark though. How do you go about designing an entire culture with a fitting army that's based around -Vampires-? Warhammer fans are known for being an incredibly hard to please group (I should know, I've been more and more absorbed into the fanbase myself over the years) and misrepresentation of a faction like that would be a significantly more grievous offense to the majority of the fanbase than what is essentially an addon faction (which Chaos is in fantasy, up until you start reaching the end of the pre-sigmar era) being put behind a paywall

Chaos is always the root of all world-ending problems. It's literally in opposition to every faction, even itself, and it is impossible to stop because it feeds off of the negative emotions all the sentients in Warhammer experience.

[QUOTE=G3rman;48971140]Chaos is always the root of all world-ending problems. It's literally in opposition to every faction, even itself, and it is impossible to stop because it feeds off of the negative emotions all the sentients in Warhammer experience.[/QUOTE] Right, except here's the thing. The Chaos Gods -can't- finish the great game entirely, as that would cause themselves to be destroyed, as their source of power is then gone. They're fully aware of this, hence the fact that they haven't wiped out existence. Seeing as this isn't Endtimes, we're not worrying about any sort of pre-sigmar stuff, which puts chaos into the cheeky sunday morning cartoon villain area. The most you're gonna see of the Chaos Barbs in fantasy currently is a bunch of savages running around, a cult or two popping up in which a few daemons are summoned, and the major factions usually giving 0 shits because they're no major threat unless they unify (which they don't because they're uncivilized savages who care about killing eachother just about as much as the rest of the world, kinda like the greenskins in 40k) they're going to have their machinations in the game, absolutely, but it's more than clear that the Greenskins are going to be the more present antagonist in the game. Warhammer fantasy is not 40k, Chaos isn't a constant issue that's always being thrust into the center light.

The problem is, people will complain no matter what. Even if it's free content.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48971233]Right, except here's the thing. The Chaos Gods -can't- finish the great game entirely, as that would cause themselves to be destroyed, as their source of power is then gone. They're fully aware of this, hence the fact that they haven't wiped out existence. Seeing as this isn't Endtimes, we're not worrying about any sort of pre-sigmar stuff, which puts chaos into the cheeky sunday morning cartoon villain area. The most you're gonna see of the Chaos Barbs in fantasy currently is a bunch of savages running around, a cult or two popping up in which a few daemons are summoned, and the major factions usually giving 0 shits because they're no major threat unless they unify (which they don't because they're uncivilized savages who care about killing eachother just about as much as the rest of the world, kinda like the greenskins in 40k) they're going to have their machinations in the game, absolutely, but it's more than clear that the Greenskins are going to be the more present antagonist in the game. Warhammer fantasy is not 40k, Chaos isn't a constant issue that's always being thrust into the center light.[/QUOTE] how can you even be this wrong Chaos has always been the foremost antagonist faction in Warhammer. If you go look up the faction listing in any of the core Warhammer books, Chaos will always be listed second, right after the Realms of Men. The Great War against Chaos was literally the single most important event in the lore. You remember that, right? The part where a bunch of Chaos warbands united and buttfucked one of the major human kingdoms? The event that forged the alliance between the Empire, the Dwarves and the High Elves? The event which allowed the Empire to finally found the Colleges of Magic with the aid of the Elves? What the fuck are you talking about. Hell, even in this very trailer you can clearly see Chaos sacking the shit out of a city.

[QUOTE=elowin;48971760]how can you even be this wrong Chaos has always been the foremost antagonist faction in Warhammer. If you go look up the faction listing in any of the core Warhammer books, Chaos will always be listed second, right after the Realms of Men. The Great War against Chaos was literally the single most important event in the lore. You remember that, right? The part where a bunch of Chaos warbands united and buttfucked one of the major human kingdoms? The event that forged the alliance between the Empire, the Dwarves and the High Elves? The event which allowed the Empire to finally found the Colleges of Magic with the aid of the Elves? What the fuck are you talking about. Hell, even in this very trailer you can clearly see Chaos sacking the shit out of a city.[/QUOTE] yes im fully aware of the event in universe in which chaos banded together (like I said, that's the only situation where they're even remotely a threat due to their constant infighting, much like the greenskins) and went ham on on a then broken empire, who would be unassisted by the elves because they themselves were dealing with their dark counterparts also deciding to throw their shit into the stew and even after all of that, the forces of order came together, won the war, and chaos was completely shitstomped because once against the chaos gods proved that maybe once in a thousand years they'll be competent and actually have an effective plan, but they'll always go back to being pieces of shit to eachother that have no sense of grand strategy and would rather bicker with one another for an eternity than ever actually do anything proper. like I said, not a threat (aside from very specific circumstances, and even then the only reason they did so good early on was because the empire was strictly against the use of magic and no one -actually- anticipated the chaos gods working together) [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] literally the trailer shows what seems to be a band of chaos warriors with the aide of some eh tier daemons wiping a group of imperial soldiers. i fail to see where any of this implies them to be a credible threat (and just cause they roflstomped the 'umies don't mean anything, of course chaos warriors will beat their equivalent in imperial soldiers, their sole purpose is bloodshed)

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48971834]yes im fully aware of the event in universe in which chaos banded together (like I said, that's the only situation where they're even remotely a threat due to their constant infighting, much like the greenskins) and went ham on on a then broken empire, who would be unassisted by the elves because they themselves were dealing with their dark counterparts also deciding to throw their shit into the stew and even after all of that, the forces of order came together, won the war, and chaos was completely shitstomped because once against the chaos gods proved that maybe once in a thousand years they'll be competent and actually have an effective plan, but they'll always go back to being pieces of shit to eachother that have no sense of grand strategy and would rather bicker with one another for an eternity than ever actually do anything proper. like I said, not a threat (aside from very specific circumstances, and even then the only reason they did so good early on was because the empire was strictly against the use of magic and no one -actually- anticipated the chaos gods working together) [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] literally the trailer shows what seems to be a band of chaos warriors with the aide of some eh tier daemons wiping a group of imperial soldiers. i fail to see where any of this implies them to be a credible threat (and just cause they roflstomped the 'umies don't mean anything, of course chaos warriors will beat their equivalent in imperial soldiers, their sole purpose is bloodshed)[/QUOTE] Right, because they're not a credible threat until they're destroying the entire world, right? What.

theyre not a credible threat because they posed a threat at one point due to taking EVERYONE (including a fractured and infighting empire) by surprise by coming together, and then the instant order got its shit together Chaos got rekt hardcore. After the great war, there's a significantly stronger vanguard against Chaos, the factions are much more closely knit and will answer eachothers calls at a moments notice if chaos is involved, and the Empire now has trained mages and accepts the elvish arts in their society. Chaos had their one chance to get shit done and that passed. Now any attempt they make, even if the unified again, would be significantly less effective. Endtimes doesn't really count because all of that shit that was written as buildup to AoS is ass and honestly shouldn't even be canon

This seems like one of those things that's gonna be called out and be reverted. Much like Deus "Augment Your Preorder Today" Ex [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] And holy shit is the fanboy strong in this thread jesus

I've wanted this game since Rome total war. If only it was being made by the devs behind medieval2...

[QUOTE=Saxon;48972103]This seems like one of those things that's gonna be called out and be reverted. Much like Deus "Augment Your Preorder Today" Ex [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] And holy shit is the fanboy strong in this thread jesus[/QUOTE] welcome to warhammer discussions, where we hoot and hollar at each other until we agree that we both like warhammer, up until we find something else to hollar about

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48972075]theyre not a credible threat because they posed a threat at one point due to taking EVERYONE (including a fractured and infighting empire) by surprise by coming together, and then the instant order got its shit together Chaos got rekt hardcore. After the great war, there's a significantly stronger vanguard against Chaos, the factions are much more closely knit and will answer eachothers calls at a moments notice if chaos is involved, and the Empire now has trained mages and accepts the elvish arts in their society. Chaos had their one chance to get shit done and that passed. Now any attempt they make, even if the unified again, would be significantly less effective. Endtimes doesn't really count because all of that shit that was written as buildup to AoS is ass and honestly shouldn't even be canon[/QUOTE] so your argument is that they're not a threat because people now realize that they're a threat ...what

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48972075]theyre not a credible threat because they posed a threat at one point due to taking EVERYONE (including a fractured and infighting empire) by surprise by coming together, and then the instant order got its shit together Chaos got rekt hardcore. After the great war, there's a significantly stronger vanguard against Chaos, the factions are much more closely knit and will answer eachothers calls at a moments notice if chaos is involved, and the Empire now has trained mages and accepts the elvish arts in their society. Chaos had their one chance to get shit done and that passed. Now any attempt they make, even if the unified again, would be significantly less effective. Endtimes doesn't really count because all of that shit that was written as buildup to AoS is ass and honestly shouldn't even be canon[/QUOTE] I don't understand how you can blatantly disregard the lore of FB to try and defend [I]a pre-order bonus.[/I] Even if we strip out the issue of it being Chaos specifically, pre-order bonuses are still a shitty draconian practice that has no purpose in the modern world of refunds.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48972241]I don't understand how you can blatantly disregard the lore of FB to try and defend [I]a pre-order bonus.[/I] Even if we strip out the issue of it being Chaos specifically, pre-order bonuses are still a shitty draconian practice that has no purpose in the modern world of refunds.[/QUOTE] oh dont get me wrong, i dont care for it being a pre-order bonus, im just talking about how the game most likely didn't have them in the core vision, at least right away. Chaos has been pushed aside for DLC/Expansion pack territory before, and that was in 40k where their role is infinitely more highlighted. [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=elowin;48972196]so your argument is that they're not a threat because people now realize that they're a threat ...what[/QUOTE] my argument is that their threat came from the fact that no one was prepared for them. the forces of chaos lost a significant amount of power after the war against chaos (something that the canon does in fact reference, things DO become less of a threat when you've dealt with them before and are now prepared for them.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48972284]my argument is that their threat came from the fact that no one was prepared for them. the forces of chaos lost a significant amount of power after the war against chaos (something that the canon does in fact reference, things DO become less of a threat when you've dealt with them before and are now prepared for them.[/QUOTE] Less of a threat? Of course they are, especially since the humans actually know how to magic now. But they're still the greatest threat. The fact that they got curbstomped was because the 3 main good guy factions all united against them. Literally any faction will get curbstomped in that situation.

[QUOTE=elowin;48972318]Less of a threat? Of course they are, especially since the humans actually know how to magic now. But they're still the greatest threat. The fact that they got curbstomped was because the 3 main good guy factions all united against them. Literally any faction will get curbstomped in that situation.[/QUOTE] okay i get what you're saying now, my point i was -trying- to make is that it's not [I]necessary[/I] for them to be the primary antagonists of the game, and that there are more threats than just Chaos out there that are imperative. There -is- the overlying threat of Chaos possibly unifying and trying shit again, absolutely. But there's also a constant threat of greenskins doing their thing, dark elves getting up to shit, and skaven being skaven (though that's so borderline chaos shenanigans it's hard to call it its own thing). If chaos is being relegated to a DLC, than clearly their core vision of the game doesn't paint them as the CURRENT threat, instead focusing on the conflicts between their heavily defined core factions. [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] I'm just bewildered at how people could be so shocked at the fact that Chaos might not be the primary antagonists in the game, as if that's something infeasible and the idea of them not being available in the base game is some kind of treachery by CA. It's something they clearly are adding on (well of course, it's dlc), and its clear they've put a lot of thought into each faction and their specific role, so it's safe to assume that their vision fits the fact that Chaos isn't exactly the current threat. I honestly think that Chaos's inclusion as a faction could be some fuckery by GW knowing the hardon they get whenever that faction is mentioned. Gotta appease the fanboys, even if CA isn't particularly interested in their inclusion in the game. Trailer seemed really lackluster and definitely gives the vibe of 'yeah we're adding them just because...'

I knew something like this would happen. Always a scummy developer stays scummy.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;48972341]okay i get what you're saying now, my point i was -trying- to make is that it's not [I]necessary[/I] for them to be the primary antagonists of the game, and that there are more threats than just Chaos out there that are imperative. There -is- the overlying threat of Chaos possibly unifying and trying shit again, absolutely. But there's also a constant threat of greenskins doing their thing, dark elves getting up to shit, and skaven being skaven (though that's so borderline chaos shenanigans it's hard to call it its own thing). If chaos is being relegated to a DLC, than clearly their core vision of the game doesn't paint them as the CURRENT threat, instead focusing on the conflicts between their heavily defined core factions. [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] I'm just bewildered at how people could be so shocked at the fact that Chaos might not be the primary antagonists in the game, as if that's something infeasible and the idea of them not being available in the base game is some kind of treachery by CA. It's something they clearly are adding on (well of course, it's dlc), and its clear they've put a lot of thought into each faction and their specific role, so it's safe to assume that their vision fits the fact that Chaos isn't exactly the current threat. I honestly think that Chaos's inclusion as a faction could be some fuckery by GW knowing the hardon they get whenever that faction is mentioned. Gotta appease the fanboys, even if CA isn't particularly interested in their inclusion in the game. Trailer seemed really lackluster and definitely gives the vibe of 'yeah we're adding them just because...'[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure it was already confirmed a while ago that Chaos would be the main antagonist faction of the game, but I could be wrong.

Since when did TW games have a primary antagonist faction though? I mean, even Warhammer embodies the perpetual war thing where everyone fights everyone for a variety of reasons. I can't imagine anyone taking the crown as chief bad guy since that's generally left in the player's court to decide who to team up with and who to destroy (even choosing to become the chief bad guy yourself). [editline]24th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=MILKE;48974124]I knew something like this would happen. Always a scummy developer stays scummy.[/QUOTE] Also, it' generally the publisher that makes marketing and...wait for it "publishing" decisions like distribution and sales and things like that. Creative Assembly makes the content and Sega pushes it out as they see fit. That's the way AAA works when devs and publishers are separate entities.

[QUOTE=G3rman;48976018]Since when did TW games have a primary antagonist faction though?[/QUOTE] The Huns in Attila, the shogunate in Shogun 2.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;48976212]The Huns in Attila, the shogunate in Shogun 2.[/QUOTE] You mean the Ashikage shogunate or just whatever faction takes it over? Even then, there were instances where you could maintain peace with the Shogunate, and in certain cases they stopped expanding. And the Ashikage were useless. There definitely isn't a "chief" antagonist; the Shogunate just acts as one method to accelerate the game or at the most enter a more aggressive scenario. Huns, yes. But that entire campaign was more like a giant scenario and it deviated significantly from the usual neutral-ness of TW campaigns.