Yeah, I thought the same. I can understand her frustration but I do not want to get involved in some family business that I don't know that well. Everyone has a different story and view and I am not a guy who blindly defends his girlfriend. I try to be objective about this.
I think I will try to talk about this.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;38776604]The hatred and bitterness seems to come from this idea that she becomes your property as soon as you start officially 'going out' - that you own her, and if she leaves, well that's simply unforgivable because she's taken something from you.
Once you pick one? IMO great relationships don't just consist of you 'picking one' but consist of two people mutually sharing strong emotional experiences.
Whether or not it's an 'official boyfriend/girlfriend relationship' is pretty irrelevant to me. Can I have the same experiences with someone or multiple people without making a 'super serious' yet hilariously inadequate commitment?
Yes.
As far as I'm concerned the idea of the monogamous boy/girl relationship came from Augustinian Christian writings of the 5th century where it was decided that you could strictly have one girl and only for the reason of producing a child, because material desires are meaningless compared to God (and the love you should have for him).
The idea of the woman as a 'beautiful lover/ goddess' didn't even appear until the 12th Century renaissance when it emerged in Arthurian Legend etc (Guinevere, damsels in distress) and the birthplace of romantic engagement/ courtship.
Christianity, from this, took a confused step and declared that now you must 'only have one girl' and it 'must be the one you love' - seemingly throwing away all the stuff about material attachment and only loving god because clearly the impact of the renaissance was too great to avoid. It should be clear how contradictory this statement is.
Religious or not, we all seem to still be under this 'spell' of historic influence and the subtle influences it inflicts on our society. It's absolutely incredible to see how the past has shaped our world, despite much of it being due to misunderstandings/ misinterpretation like some kind of foul chinese whispers.[/QUOTE]
I never ever specifically referenced a gender as 'having to be monogamous or an object' in my post. I like monogamy better because in my eyes it forms a better bond, and that if someone wants to enter a relationship only to float off, they shouldn't even be in or deserve a monogamous relationship to begin with. (Notice the use of 'someone' and not 'she' or 'he'?).
People get bitter and mad about it because they [b]expected and agree'd to a relationship where both partners are loyal and do belong to and own that someone in some way[/b], and when someone 'better' comes along and it ruins everything, you know what happens.
Onto how I used, 'when you pick one', that was a conflict between my words and the meaning I had behind them, disregard it.
If someone wants to be polygamous or only have casual open-ish relationships, they should stay away from people who only want something monogamous or serious, or get ostracized and screamed at when they do whatever they do that breaks the relationship up.
Most people don't agree that romantic love is some floaty thing that can be shared with anyone and everyone, and they don't deserve to have to stand for partners who think it the other way around and will end up betraying or leaving them for an invalid reason.
All of the bitterness does stem from the stupid shit that people do that demeans the purpose of the relationship and the entire concept of love that the innocent partner holds, it isn't the fault of the partner who did expect mutual loyalty, care, and something more grounded.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;38783515]I never ever specifically referenced a gender as 'having to be monogamous or an object' in my post. I like monogamy better because in my eyes it forms a better bond, and that if someone wants to enter a relationship only to float off, they shouldn't even be in or deserve a monogamous relationship to begin with. (Notice the use of 'someone' and not 'she' or 'he'?).[/QUOTE]
People jump way too quickly into relationships though - I don't know if it's desperation, fear of death or just saying silly things in the heat of the moment provided by the flames of passion. IMO until you're comfortable and just as happy on your own, with nothing and no-one, you shouldn't be in a relationship or you will probably be objectifying and lusting, without even being conscious that you're doing it.
If not, inevitably the waters will become agitated at some point and that's where 'unconditional love' becomes observably conditional very quickly.. 'I can't believe she's doing this to me!' 'Why is she causing me so much pain!' 'That guy is an asshole!' etc.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;38784194]People jump way too quickly into relationships though - I don't know if it's desperation, fear of death or just saying silly things in the heat of the moment provided by the flames of passion. IMO until you're comfortable and just as happy on your own, with nothing and no-one, you shouldn't be in a relationship or you will probably be objectifying and lusting, without even being conscious that you're doing it.
If not, inevitably the waters will become agitated at some point and that's where 'unconditional love' becomes observably conditional very quickly.. 'I can't believe she's doing this to me!' 'Why is she causing me so much pain!' 'That guy is an asshole!' etc.[/QUOTE]
That's some other issue caused by naive children and hopeless romantics, the problems where the blame rests on one partner only exists where a relationship would've been fine unless that one person hadn't found 'someone better' or got too horny and broke off and went off on their own just because.
If someone really, really wants something out of their future partner regardless of what it is, they should look for someone who can provide it before they jump into a relationship, and if they make the mistake of not doing that, they shouldn't hurt their partner because of their own stupidity and wait for some other reason to break up.
The stupid stuff like that can be solved when the relationship is still not serious, of course, before it becomes a giant problem.
People need to hold nothing back from whoever they plan to share their lives with, expect great loyalty and control and return that loyalty and make their wants subservient to their partner's own, or else the 'better boyfriend/girlfriend' idea becomes an issue.
No one should have to expect that they'll get left behind at random, just because, and they certainly shouldn't have to be gracious about it when it does happen. If everyone did put their partner/s before themselves, relationships would still be equal, and surely much better.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;38776831]How do you differentiate between love and infatuation?[/QUOTE]
i don't know really much about love but infatuation itself is a natural physical thing that usually occurs at the beginning of every romantic relationship
and for some people at the moment that physical effect stops they pretty much lose all interest in the relationship
On a completely unrelated note, I believe I pulled a muscle in my hand whilst fingering my girlfriend.
[QUOTE=viper shtf;38785101]On a completely unrelated note, I believe I pulled a muscle in my hand whilst fingering my girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
ffs put some ice and compress it before you lose that finger!!
[QUOTE=viper shtf;38785101]On a completely unrelated note, I believe I pulled a muscle in my hand whilst fingering my girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
make her feel bad about it
pitty handjobs
It's not that bad, but thanks for the first aid advice.Fun idea Raptor, but I try not to do stuff like that. Besides, all I need to do is ask, and she'll do that.
[QUOTE=junker|154;38782612]My girlfriend tells me a lot of stories about her family. Her family is quite weird and a disorderly. She's experiencing a lot of arguments and fights. It's even so bad that the youth welfare office offered her to pay a flat in order to live alone. Her mother is one crazy woman and I do not know what to do. My girlfriend expects me to take position and get involved into this whole drama.
I understand that if you have a relationship you have to listen and help out your partner, be there for him. But my girlfriend constantly complains on how bad her mother is and how she is a decieving bitch, the issue is that I am not that familiar with her family business to take any position. I hear stuff hear and there, but her mother was always kind to me and respected me.
But my girlfriend looks like she wants me to take position and defend her. I do not want to intrude on family business like some douche without any background whatsoever, she is kind of mad about it.[/QUOTE]
well, you can inform yourself about it.
its what I would do. I mean, she keeps saying stuff that contradicts how her mother treats you, so you should try seeing both sides to actually know if you wanna get involved or not. I'm too much of a detective when it comes to solving problems and stuff, I can't resist when someone loses something and comments about it next to me.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;38784493]
People need to hold nothing back from whoever they plan to share their lives with, expect great loyalty and control and return that loyalty and make their wants subservient to their partner's own, or else the 'better boyfriend/girlfriend' idea becomes an issue.[/QUOTE]
no that's stupid.
relationships aren't mythical contracts.
you have to remove this conception completely.
relationships are flawed and almost all will fail.
it's far better to reach for whatever bit of happiness you can get instead of trying to torture yourself with deluded romanticism.
^this, also
relationships exist [b]for the purpose of getting to know each other[/b]. dating someone or even being in a relationship with them for a few years isn't anything like getting married and signing a contract to say you're for good.
[QUOTE=thisispain;38786724]no that's stupid.
relationships aren't mythical contracts.
you have to remove this conception completely.
relationships are flawed and almost all will fail.
it's far better to reach for whatever bit of happiness you can get instead of trying to torture yourself with deluded romanticism.[/QUOTE]
I was arguing ideologies there, would, should, could, rise of the proletariat.
I'd rather wait for a lifetime for something good or bad to happen than put myself into the hellhole that is the modern day dating and romanticism scene and fall flat on my ass, which would be inevitable.
[editline]11th December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;38786830]^this, also
relationships exist [b]for the purpose of getting to know each other[/b]. dating someone or even being in a relationship with them for a few years isn't anything like getting married and signing a contract to say you're for good.[/QUOTE]
I always thought that 'going steady' was where the loyalty and the other stuff was meant to fall in.
I'm not very used to the idea of dating being used as some meticulous mass process to sniff out a good partner, either.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;38786836]I was arguing ideologies there, would, should, could, rise of the proletariat.[/QUOTE]
ideologies don't do anyone any good.
i'll use your language and say that it didn't do Lenin and Trotsky any good to argue ideologies, they had a dictatorship and a church to get rid of.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;38786836]I'd rather wait for a lifetime for something good or bad to happen than put myself into the hellhole that is the modern day dating and romanticism scene and fall flat on my ass, which would be inevitable.[/QUOTE]
waiting a lifetime flat on your ass will always end up with you being flat on your ass in the end.
relationships aren't about this garbage, any relationship, romantic or unromantic, are about just finding someone to do shit with.
experiences and discoveries, and a lot of them are better with more than one person.
your "ideology" ends up ONLY in wasted lives and missed experiences, and in the end that's pretty much all there is, mate. maybe there's a Heaven or reincarnation, i don't know for sure, but most likely there's just this one and if you fuck it up by not taking the time to experience, discover, and share with others you basically missed the point of being anything in the first place
yeah i know this is preachy, but idgaf this way of thinking has the chance to ruin your life
[QUOTE=viper shtf;38785101]On a completely unrelated note, I believe I pulled a muscle in my hand whilst fingering my girlfriend.[/QUOTE]
Guilt her and tell her you hope it was worth it. Trust me.
[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;38782567]not trying to make any assumptions about you here but usually when i hear things like this it's from people new to relationships trying to glorify their emotions, like teenagers using cliche phrases like "i just want her to be happy" when they don't understand what that phrase really means
[editline]10th December 2012[/editline]
adults tend to be able to suppress emotions better so infatuation isn't always as exaggerated as we make it sound.[/QUOTE]
Well, I haven't been in a relationship so you got that right. In that case I'd like you to explain what the accept part means.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;38781229]Infatuation is when they can do no wrong. Love is when they do wrong and you accept it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Yahnich;38787742]i think forgive them is a better word than accept it here
also USSR i feel bad for you son, you have this terrible view of relationships; nobody has ever been ruined by a relationship, sure they might feel bad for a while, but usually the happiness gotten from the relationship far outweighs the pain afterwards[/QUOTE]
I had a bad breakup that wrecked me for a long time, but there's no way I'd ever wish that I hadn't met her.
They were by far the best 2 years of my life (part of the problem, because I couldn't help comparing later relationships to that one).
What you can get out of a good relationship outweighs any bad feelings you can get from a messy one.
[QUOTE=Yahnich;38787742]i think forgive them is a better word than accept it here[/QUOTE]
But everyone has flaws. With that in mind from the beginning; how does it work?
[QUOTE=JohanGS;38789068]But everyone has flaws. With that in mind from the beginning; how does it work?[/QUOTE]
you downplay their flaws or deny them initially, usually view them as always right. that's part of infatuation. after a while you stop viewing them as some sort of god, start noticing their mistakes, and go back to thinking more independently.
either way it doesn't matter. if someone's sitting around thinking "hmm is what i feel infatuation or love" and has to consult the internet before taking a relationship to the next step, then it's probably the former.
[QUOTE=Guy Mannly;38789310]you downplay their flaws or deny them initially, usually view them as always right. that's part of infatuation. after a while you stop viewing them as some sort of god, start noticing their mistakes, and go back to thinking more independently.
either way it doesn't matter. if someone's sitting around thinking "hmm is what i feel infatuation or love" and has to consult the internet before taking a relationship to the next step, then it's probably the former.[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see.
Why are the guys in this thread always so keen on telling people that they are infatuated though?
because they're [del]pretentious[/del] trying to help in their own way
[QUOTE=cyclocius;38787194]Guilt her and tell her you hope it was worth it. Trust me.[/QUOTE]
Nahh, it's better now. Maybe next time though...
Is it natural that I feel like the break up is my fault? I didn't do anything to make her mad or anything. She just pretty much lost all interest in me.
Let's face it.
Nobody here knows how to describe the reason and purpose of love and relationships in meaningful words. :v:
Well, I finally had sex for the first time yesterday, and I still didn't cum. I don't know what to do.
[QUOTE=Variant;38794862]Well, I finally had sex for the first time yesterday, and I still didn't cum. I don't know what to do.[/QUOTE]
It's your first time buddy, you will get used to it and you will actually enjoy it a lot more. Don't worry.
[QUOTE=Yahnich;38787742]i think forgive them is a better word than accept it here
also USSR i feel bad for you son, you have this terrible view of relationships; nobody has ever been ruined by a relationship, sure they might feel bad for a while, but usually the happiness gotten from the relationship far outweighs the pain afterwards[/QUOTE]
I don't care for any relationship that has some sort of awful mortality to it, if it isn't permanent and unwavering, I wouldn't want to be a part of it. I can't cherish any memories if they're corrupted by some bad event that is connected to them.
The only reason why I'd want a relationship in the first place is the shroud of emotional (and possibly physical) security it provides, as well as the mutual care and altruism. I don't care for 'sharing experiences' or going out and about and living it up casually with some wide expanse of people, I want to sit away with one person, that's it. I'd been (practically forced) into two relationships, and both of them were awful and I got neglected (funnily enough) and screamed at (literally, and the one who did it didn't do it out of anguish or anger, I'm sure) and teased for not being "passionate" enough like I was supposed to be some masculine romantic lover. In the latter of the two I get left alone while they went out to some bar to "find a man", even if I had tried to be affectionate or caring or nice. I don't really care about masculinity and being ''macho'' and ''sexual and passionate'', I hate the concept of it all, and I have the physical build of an anorexic potato farming dwarf during the Great Famine, though it doesn't negate the fact that I was abused (and there were better moments, but they don't really count at all as of now and I still regret ever having associating with those two). I'm sure I'm doing everything but ruining myself from abstaining from risking falling in line with the likes of those two dollops of scum again.
[editline]2012[/editline]
Am I some hopeless romantic with a deluded sense of what love is, still?
[QUOTE=Zareox7;38790624]Is it natural that I feel like the break up is my fault? I didn't do anything to make her mad or anything. She just pretty much lost all interest in me.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit are you my secret replica on this planet?
Exact same question, nothing to add or remove
Well it's happened to everyone.
Yeah, you can't let those bad cases ruin all potential relationships for you. You had bad luck, I'm sorry, but it's no reason to give up. You've just gotta pick yourself up and try again. If you let them ruin relationships for you, then you've let them win.
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