[QUOTE=Thlis;52050783]To be fair, drawing cubes in different orientations and perspectives as practice can be extremely helpful in the long run.[/QUOTE]
It's a good exercise. It should not be the only course in learning how to draw.
[QUOTE=gufu;52050767]My drawing style is rather poor because I hardly ever put in time to actually draw something right, and tend to just go for messy pen doodles. Those have a ton of problems, the most annoying of which is the fact that most lines look the same at specific sizes of the drawing, so you can't just make important lines thicker, and I am a sucker for line detail on faces. With pencils, it can work well because of diversity of pencils, going from at least 8H for incredibly faint lines to 8B for Thicc Shadows. But with pen, it just makes any body appear to be at least two decades older.
So, throughout most of my drawings, I have sat back with my favorite subjects of machinery/technology and mostly amorphous/curving creatures (aliens, mutants, et cetera). I still hold onto my old drawings, because while some of them are good, most of them just have good ideas, which I want to redo right some day.
[t]http://img02.deviantart.net/7fe7/i/2010/163/2/e/riot_cop_by_gufu1992.png[/t]
I guess the fact that I drew this 7 years ago, makes me feel a little better. Although, I don't have anything to show theses days, for it.
For now, I can at best make people who don't draw feel slightly jealous and that's it. I've been trying to see if I can do any better in digital art, but aside from tool-related difficulties (dat 4 by 6 space) which makes the process feel ridiculously long in comparison to drawing on paper, I feel like I am literally on the same level as Sparkledog McMsPaint artists, and it just makes me not even want to improve a picture (the main benefit of digital art), much less try again.
To be honest, proper and well done shading gives me a hard on no matter what the subject matter of a picture is. Besides, certainly better than drawing a shaded cube for 100 times.[/QUOTE]
I just did a quick google search for that. We didn't actual learn shading or anything. It was basically just flat art.
Back when I took a middle-school art class honestly I preferred not having to draw people and instead doing boxes/spheres and generally more abstract stuff because of the whole 'when will the government stop your sinful hand' effect. But I really wanna' kind of branch out eventually and learn more because I suck ass at anything that's a living figure.
[QUOTE=Thlis;52050783]Draw a box isn't terrible in terms of exercises or concepts, it's just the guy who runs it isn't great in terms of skills.[/QUOTE]
[t]http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1490632817188.jpg[/t]
This is [B]not[/B] good technique, even 4chan knows. Proko and even Sycra are way better teachers. Not sure how DAB (heh) is run, but I wouldn't trust a site run by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.
[QUOTE=slayer20;52050813]I just did a quick google search for that. We didn't actual learn shading or anything. It was basically just flat art.[/QUOTE]
Really? Must be just the picture then. It's a shame, shading is fuckhuge in making something look palpable, hell it may even help mistakes in line art to be missed.
Also, this reminds me when me and my grandmother went to a Museum, and there was exposition of Japanese art from 15th (???) century. My grandmother points to a picture and says "Look, it's just like your drawings!".
[t]http://i.imgur.com/IP97OC7.jpg[/t]
Thanks, grandma.
[QUOTE=gufu;52050833]Really? Must be just the picture then. It's a shame, shading is fuckhuge in making something look palpable, hell it may even help mistakes in line art to be missed.
Also, this reminds me when me and my grandmother went to a Museum, and there was exposition of Japanese art from 15th (???) century. My grandmother points to a picture and says "Look, it's just like your drawings!".
[t]http://i.imgur.com/IP97OC7.jpg[/t]
Thanks, grandma.[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;VKMw2it8dQY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKMw2it8dQY[/video]
Literally the only thing I think of when I see that painting.
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52050768]Hell no.
[t]http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1490560401572.png[/t]
from /ic/
I can't even draw and even I can critique this guy.[/QUOTE]
Can someone explain to me what's wrong with these pictures? They look mostly decent to me.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52050863]Can someone explain to me what's wrong with these pictures? They look mostly decent to me.[/QUOTE]
to my untrained eyes i can easily tell some of the proportions are off.
the lion looks like a stubby midget.
Nothing is more hilarious than people who practice exclusively off of tracing
but still see people trace art without credit and then cry when they are called out
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
People who try to do nothing but duplicate a specific style of music / art / literature almost always fail
you might capture the attitude and tone of the Beatles, but you'll never capture the soul
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52050863]Can someone explain to me what's wrong with these pictures? They look mostly decent to me.[/QUOTE]
Aside from the down syndrome lion, there's the fact that he didn't think of anatomy at all when making the clothed figures on the top left, the anatomy of the topless woman is really bad (not even talking about the boobs being asymmetrical because that's actually normal, he just can't draw them well) the god awful chest, rib cage and shading, etc. The perspective on the car and fishing dock is obviously off. I don't know jack shit about that but even I can see it. The portrait on the top right does not clearly define the form of the jaw and chin that separates his head from the neck, his head is huge and shoulders are deformed, etc. Overall they mostly just look pretty bland.
I'm certain there's a lot more wrong with his art, someone else might be able to go into more detail.
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52050921]Aside from the down syndrome lion, there's the fact that he didn't think of anatomy at all when making the clothed figures on the top left, the anatomy of the topless woman is really bad (not even talking about the boobs being asymmetrical because that's actually normal, he just can't draw them well) the god awful chest, rib cage and shading, etc. The perspective on the car and fishing dock is obviously off. I don't know jack shit about that but even I can see it. The portrait on the top right does not clearly define the form of the jaw and chin that separates his head from the neck, his head is huge and shoulders are deformed, etc. Overall they mostly just look pretty bland.
I'm certain there's a lot more wrong with his art, someone else might be able to go into more detail.[/QUOTE]
Alright I can definitely agree with Midget Downs Lion and Ribbed-for-your-pleasure Lady but I really don't see a problem with the perspective on the fishing dock, that one actually looks really good, and the car's perspective is a little off but ain't that bad, certainly nowhere close to hitler-art, I can't really fault him for the portrait on the top right because some people legitimately fucking look like that, and somehow I feel proper anatomy wasn't really the focus of the clothed figures on the top left *cough*eroticism*cough*.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051065]Alright I can definitely agree with Midget Downs Lion and Ribbed-for-your-pleasure Lady but I really don't see a problem with the perspective on the fishing dock, that one actually looks really good, and the car's perspective is a little off but ain't that bad, certainly nowhere close to hitler-art, I can't really fault him for the portrait on the top right because some people legitimately fucking look like that, and somehow [B]I feel proper anatomy wasn't really the focus of the clothed figures on the top left[/B] *cough*eroticism*cough*.[/QUOTE]
It, uh... Should be. You need to know what the figure looks like underneath before adding anything on top, he failed at that.
I do a lot of those same mistakes but I'm not a teacher so I have no real excuse, my failings affect me only.
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52051145]It, uh... Should be. You need to know what the figure looks like underneath before adding anything on top, he failed at that.
I do a lot of those same mistakes but I'm not a teacher so I have no real excuse, my failings affect me only.[/QUOTE]
Heh, guess a fuckton of erotic artists are pretty mistaken then...
And just because he isn't a master at his trade doesn't mean he can't at least help some people with their own art. Joe the Computer Programmer might not exactly know about how best to use derived classes, but that doesn't mean he can't teach me programming language basics. His art is already far above anything I will probably create, so I'd rather learn from him, a readily available and free resource, then have to invest a shitload of time into an artclass or otherwise that might not even touch on the subject he's covering.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051215]Heh, guess a fuckton of erotic artists are pretty mistaken then...[/QUOTE]
what
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051215]And just because he isn't a master at his trade doesn't mean he can't at least help some people with their own art. Joe the Computer Programmer might not exactly know about how best to use derived classes, but that doesn't mean he can't teach me programming language basics. His art is already far above anything I will probably create, so I'd rather learn from him, a readily available and free resource, then have to invest a shitload of time into an artclass or otherwise that might not even touch on the subject he's covering.[/QUOTE]
Yes, he can still teach people, I'm not saying he literally cannot teach or give tips and advice, he just wouldn't be very good at doing so. There are way better resources out there.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051215]Heh, guess a fuckton of erotic artists are pretty mistaken then...[/QUOTE]
To be honest, when you're jerking off, you tend to not notice small details, which means that erotic art can make some mistakes, especially if you expect your viewer to not spend too much time on a single picture.
[QUOTE=gufu;52051506]To be honest, when you're jerking off, you tend to not notice small details, which means that erotic art can make some mistakes, especially if you expect your viewer to not spend too much time on a single picture.[/QUOTE]
I dunno about you man, but it's kinda distracting to see glaring anatomy mistakes when you're having a bat
sure nobodys gonna pack it away because the left nut isn't hanging low enough but it's hard to get into a picture where someone's shoulder is halfway down their chest, or their thigh looks like a mass of tumours
[QUOTE=gufu;52051506]To be honest, when you're jerking off, you tend to not notice small details, which means that erotic art can make some mistakes, especially if you expect your viewer to not spend too much time on a single picture.[/QUOTE]
The biggest boner killers in drawn porn is bad proportions and really good stories.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051215]Heh, guess a fuckton of erotic artists are pretty mistaken then...[/QUOTE]
the most popular erotic artists are incredible artists. it [I]pays[/I]
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;52051215]And just because he isn't a master at his trade doesn't mean he can't at least help some people with their own art. Joe the Computer Programmer might not exactly know about how best to use derived classes, but that doesn't mean he can't teach me programming language basics. His art is already far above anything I will probably create, so I'd rather learn from him, a readily available and free resource, then have to invest a shitload of time into an artclass or otherwise that might not even touch on the subject he's covering.[/QUOTE]
there's a lot better out there.
loomis [url]http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/[/url]
fzd [url]https://www.youtube.com/user/FZDSCHOOL[/url]
you can become the best of the best with nothing other than blood and sweat and these two pages.
the thing with art is that unlike programming there is nothing past bare fundamentals that's as bite-sized. at all. if your art teacher is not a very good artist you simply will not learn much. i have a lot of experience with this. programs can easily be broken down into their constituent parts that you can scrounge together from resources like stackoverflow/documentation/etc but there is a world of separation from lines on paper to a fully rendered piece.
As somewhat of a self-taught artist, I think one of the most important things about art is trying other styles and mediums. If you don't have a great art teacher or no available resources, you can learn a lot about the fundamentals of art and design through other mediums and styles. Take for example, sculpting. Even if you don't plan on doing it as a career, it gives you a sense of form and perspective, which immensely helps your drawing, as you can see how it would actually act in the real world. Painting gives you a sense of colors, balancing, and mixing, while photography gives you a sense of perspective, materials, and lighting. Art is like the human body; it's not just one system, but multitudes all working together to function as a single unit.
Another thing is to take a look at real life and analyze everything. How does this object look at this angle? How does this material react to light? What makes a metal look like a metal? The more you observe, the more you can understand and improve a lot faster than you would by just looking at a narrow range of things.
[QUOTE=J!NX;52050894]Nothing is more hilarious than people who practice exclusively off of tracing
but still see people trace art without credit and then cry when they are called out
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
People who try to do nothing but duplicate a specific style of music / art / literature almost always fail
you might capture the attitude and tone of the Beatles, but you'll never capture the soul[/QUOTE]
I don't think this is true with instrumentals. I try a different genre with every song I make.
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52048949]Because of the bad habits I constructed over time, I have a lot of trouble learning the basics without having some old habit screw the sketch. I have been improving a lot more in past years but I can't say I'm really good with anatomy or strong perspective shots at all.
Don't skip basics! It comes biting back REAL hard.[/QUOTE]
I've always drawn as a hobby, I remember getting a "how to draw manga" book in grade school that was my first "real" drawing book. It did teach me a few good fundamentals (use lines on a sphere for head, plot out skeleton before drawing body) but the problem was that it was so stylized - and not even stylized [I]well[/I] - that I learned a bunch of awful habits and practices that still kind of haunt me today. Again, unless you know how anatomy [I]really[/I] works you shouldn't jump straight to stylization!
[t]http://chute-media-arts.pbworks.com/f/1296848895/face%20shape.jpg[/t][t]http://chute-media-arts.pbworks.com/f/drawing%20a%20body.jpg[/t]
Spongebob knew all along
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmqsk1vZSKw[/media]
[QUOTE=Corndog Ninja;52053604]I've always drawn as a hobby, I remember getting a "how to draw manga" book in grade school that was my first "real" drawing book. It did teach me a few good fundamentals (use lines on a sphere for head, plot out skeleton before drawing body) but the problem was that it was so stylized - and not even stylized [I]well[/I] - that I learned a bunch of awful habits and practices that still kind of haunt me today. Again, unless you know how anatomy [I]really[/I] works you shouldn't jump straight to stylization!
[t]http://chute-media-arts.pbworks.com/f/1296848895/face%20shape.jpg[/t][t]http://chute-media-arts.pbworks.com/f/drawing%20a%20body.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
I had similar books, except they were constructed and made by real manga artists (some pages still had Japanese on them), that helped how to construct and gauge a character proportions. Not everything in it was stylized since there were more then one artist in them. It also gave comparisons between realistic and stylized basically saying "we mimic real life and cheat in some places", such as flattening eyes in 3/4 or forcing an exaggerated perspective to give a boost in the movement. It had the basics of the human body like gender and age proportions charts, "head box" construction, etc.
Overall, it was a good guide but since no one in my entourage up until 3-4 years ago cared to help me improve, I was stuck in trial and error limbo, until I started slowly fixing stuff recently. Younger me kept copying what they said in the book and not understanding how to incorporate box/shape construction into his drawings.
It's this series. I have these two at home (probably even another one lying around). First one is an overview of mostly everything, from construction of characters to comic building. Others in the series go in more details.
[t]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51QWJS7P4HL.jpg[/t] [t]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VQY4VHKRL._SX333_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg[/t]
There are probably better ones but these two helped teenager me to get a certain understanding while still being a stubborn idiot with "muh style" and sticking with anime. I did develop one but that's because I looked at what I loved the most growing as a kid which were Belgian comics (Tintin, Asterix, Spirou, Smurfs, etc). And suddenly, everything kind of worked and clicked. Like when you find that one missing piece in a big puzzle because you shifted your perspective and all the others come slowly after.
Perspective is a big part of it and so are proportions, I still doodle but atleast I have proportions correct (by literally measuring the length of my arms in comparison to my body, etc.)
After taking an art class in anatomy and life drawing, I found out that doing quick sketches and drawing real people (pedestrians) helps a lot since you get a basic idea of the human form
When asked by people I knew that drew anime often (with terribad proportions), of how I drew so well, I told them to draw irl people
for some reason, most of them attempted to draw people about twice, then go back to drawing their badly proportioned figures
it takes practice of fundamentals to git gud though :glare:
This was never an attitude my teachers had towards me buts its definitely an attitude my current self has towards my younger self. Back then I was one of the few students who ever took art remotely seriously so whenever I would deviate into my own style they would just let me get away with it. Of course I would occasionally try out different techniques and mediums and the teachers did go over the fundamentals of art but only at a very basic high school level. Now I've just been slowly teaching myself by observing and studying others. I feel like I've finally got down perspective and posture, people tell me that my faces are good but I'm never satisfied with them, and I'm garbage at shading which is probably what I want to work on next.
Here's a really sloppy doodle I recently did on a whiteboard at my university.
[thumb]http://i66.tinypic.com/30vk4cm.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52048949]Don't skip basics! It comes biting back REAL hard.[/QUOTE]
This is why I'd like to learn how to draw characters but I don't have an idea as to where to start, and the general advice of "just draw something!" terrifies me. I'd really rather take some proper foundational lessons and spend time learning how to do things "right" before trying to do things "awesome" because I imagine the awesome would come out better in the end, regardless of how much time needed to get there. I have a good amount of spare time. I can wait. I also just don't know where to being. And with those two things in mind, I've never even tried.
So...I guess some advice?
[QUOTE=Banned?;52056542]This is why I'd like to learn how to draw characters but I don't have an idea as to where to start, and the general advice of "just draw something!" terrifies me. I'd really rather take some proper foundational lessons and spend time learning how to do things "right" before trying to do things "awesome" because I imagine the awesome would come out better in the end, regardless of how much time needed to get there. I have a good amount of spare time. I can wait. I also just don't know where to being. And with those two things in mind, I've never even tried.
So...I guess some advice?[/QUOTE]
Here's a website I just found with some neat basic tutorials. To draw any kind of character, you wanna have the basics of anatomy and proportion.
[url]https://design.tutsplus.com/categories/human-anatomy[/url]
Here are some specific ones:
[url]https://design.tutsplus.com/tutorials/how-to-draw-a-stick-figure-a-complex-guide--cms-23620[/url]
[url]https://design.tutsplus.com/tutorials/quick-tip-create-dynamic-poses-using-gesture-drawing--cms-23890[/url]
[url]https://design.tutsplus.com/articles/human-anatomy-fundamentals-basic-body-proportions--vector-18254[/url]
These might help you kinda get started.
[QUOTE=alpha00zero;52053733]I had similar books, except they were constructed and made by real manga artists (some pages still had Japanese on them), that helped how to construct and gauge a character proportions. Not everything in it was stylized since there were more then one artist in them. It also gave comparisons between realistic and stylized basically saying "we mimic real life and cheat in some places", such as flattening eyes in 3/4 or forcing an exaggerated perspective to give a boost in the movement. It had the basics of the human body like gender and age proportions charts, "head box" construction, etc.
Overall, it was a good guide but since no one in my entourage up until 3-4 years ago cared to help me improve, I was stuck in trial and error limbo, until I started slowly fixing stuff recently. Younger me kept copying what they said in the book and not understanding how to incorporate box/shape construction into his drawings.
It's this series. I have these two at home (probably even another one lying around). First one is an overview of mostly everything, from construction of characters to comic building. Others in the series go in more details.
[t]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51QWJS7P4HL.jpg[/t] [t]https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51VQY4VHKRL._SX333_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg[/t]
There are probably better ones but these two helped teenager me to get a certain understanding while still being a stubborn idiot with "muh style" and sticking with anime. I did develop one but that's because I looked at what I loved the most growing as a kid which were Belgian comics (Tintin, Asterix, Spirou, Smurfs, etc). And suddenly, everything kind of worked and clicked. Like when you find that one missing piece in a big puzzle because you shifted your perspective and all the others come slowly after.[/QUOTE]
I've got that second one actually, never thought I'd see it here.
The one thing I remember is how curling appendages/limbs away from the body illustrates fatigue.
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