[QUOTE=elowin;50255516]This is a pretty late response, but whatever.
In another thread I already brought this up, but the pace at which you gain certs at the beginning is kind of disingenuous, because it slows down massively after a while. The big reason you've been earning so many certs is that they give you 100 certs for every battle rank you get. Because the first few battle ranks are extremely quick to get, you'll very quickly get yourself a decent pile of certs. It then slows down a lot to what I think is a pretty decent pace around BR10.
Then it slams the brakes, and reduces your cert gain to a tiny, utterly miniscule trickle after BR15, as it stops giving you any certs whatsoever from increasing your battle rank.
From then on, the only sources of certs are the [i]ONE[/i] cert you get per 250 experience, and the extremely minor amount you get from earning weapon medals.
For reference, most of the weapons with a lot of utility over the defaults are around 700 (699 but shut up) certs, and a few really useful ones like the NS Annihilator go over 1000.
If they kept the cert acquisition at the pace around BR10, I would be singing this games praises right now. Hell, even if they just kept the 100 certs per battle rank for all battle ranks, even with each battle rank being harder to gain than the last, that would be a massive step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]
Two points though:
1). The game is still F2P, making money off of cosmetics alone isn't viable - they kind of want to make money than they need to keep the game running.
2). The idea behind that system is sound - it assumes that by the time you're BR15 you've got a solid base to go from there, you're ready to go join an outfit, play in squads and continue making certs mainly from the fights you're participating in, not from levelling up which is inevitable anyway. The better you get at the game, the more certs you gain. Unhappy with your cert gain? Get better. The game's "tutorials" do a shit job at explaining that though.
[QUOTE=gudman;50256162]Two points though:
1). The game is still F2P, making money off of cosmetics alone isn't viable - they kind of want to make money than they need to keep the game running.
2). The idea behind that system is sound - it assumes that by the time you're BR15 you've got a solid base to go from there, you're ready to go join an outfit, play in squads and continue making certs mainly from the fights you're participating in, not from levelling up which is inevitable anyway. The better you get at the game, the more certs you gain. Unhappy with your cert gain? Get better. The game's "tutorials" do a shit job at explaining that though.[/QUOTE]
Even if you do very well, the cert gain is still impressively slow.
And honestly, I never got the logic of making people who are better and more experienced get [i]even more[/i] of an advantage like that. Seems kind of silly.
And furthermore, even if you pay, say, 60 dollars on the game in the form of daybreak cash, the cost of just about any other game, you would still only unlock a tiny amount of the weapons in the game, and the cert gain would still be ridiculously slow for everything else.
[QUOTE=elowin;50256224]Even if you do very well, the cert gain is still impressively slow.
And honestly, I never got the logic of making people who are better and more experienced get [i]even more[/i] of an advantage like that. Seems kind of silly.
And furthermore, even if you pay, say, 60 dollars on the game in the form of daybreak cash, the cost of just about any other game, you would still only unlock a tiny amount of the weapons in the game, and the cert gain would still be ridiculously slow for everything else.[/QUOTE]
If we're talking vehicles, then I would agree, that area of the game is still has a ridiculously shitty balance. But what kind of an advantage one infantryman has over another one if all weapons are expressly balanced in such a way as to not give the owner a clear-cut advantage? There's no progression in terms of guns - you find the ones you're most comfortable with and that's it, why would you ever need weapons you'll never play with? If we're go into "but I get bored with the one I'm good at and want variety!" zone - that's just your preference, not an issue of advantage/disadvantage.
Fully certed Medic has no advantage over undercerted Heavy Assault at the latter's comfortable range. Now, if we compare fresh HA vs kitted-up HA there's a point to make there, but then again - the game's not about 1v1 engagements. Sure you lose against that guy, but fully certed Engineer or LA has nothing on you at your guns' preferred range.
[QUOTE=gudman;50256287]If we're talking vehicles, then I would agree, that area of the game is still has a ridiculously shitty balance. But what kind of an advantage one infantryman has over another one if all weapons are expressly balanced in such a way as to not give the owner a clear-cut advantage? There's no progression in terms of guns - you find the ones you're most comfortable with and that's it, why would you ever need weapons you'll never play with? If we're go into "but I get bored with the one I'm good at and want variety!" zone - that's just your preference, not an issue of advantage/disadvantage.
Fully certed Medic has no advantage over undercerted Heavy Assault at the latter's comfortable range. Now, if we compare fresh HA vs kitted-up HA there's a point to make there, but then again - the game's not about 1v1 engagements. Sure you lose against that guy, but fully certed Engineer or LA has nothing on you at your guns' preferred range.[/QUOTE]
We're not talking exclusively guns. Certifications, attachments, even implants all factor into it. Although implants are for the most part pretty insignificant, both certifications and attachments can give you serious, tangible benefits with little to no downside.
And as I've already brought up just a few posts above, having options is an upgrade. If you have a gun that's better in a situation, then being able to bring it into that situation when it arises is an upgrade from not being able to do so, even if the same gun is worse than the defaults in other situations. Choice is power.
As for the "I want variety" zone, even if you pay for the variety they're basically ripping you off. Both Daybreak Cash and Memberships are ridiculously priced.
The reason I keep getting into Planetside 2 I think is because I love fighting odds. Fighting alone against one squad and coming out on top is the greatest feeling ever [sp]albeit it doesn't happen often[/sp]
No other shooter that I know of offers uneven matches without having the one player be much stronger.
I don't play the game often but I love jumping in now and then and just finding a huge ass battle, hiding up on a cliff and trying to snipe, I just wish there was more guns to pick from tbh
[QUOTE=elowin;50262535]We're not talking exclusively guns. Certifications, attachments, even implants all factor into it. Although implants are for the most part pretty insignificant, both certifications and attachments can give you serious, tangible benefits with little to no downside.
And as I've already brought up just a few posts above, having options is an upgrade. If you have a gun that's better in a situation, then being able to bring it into that situation when it arises is an upgrade from not being able to do so, even if the same gun is worse than the defaults in other situations. Choice is power.
As for the "I want variety" zone, even if you pay for the variety they're basically ripping you off. Both Daybreak Cash and Memberships are ridiculously priced.[/QUOTE]
The cert issue stems from the fact that you don't like the game enough to play it, the grind is NOWHERE like it used to be and its piss easy to get what you need in a couple days time now if you put your mind to it.
like it's cool, you dont like it, but dont make it out to be something more than that, cause it's not. the game's at it's most accessible since like... honestly the tech tests, and that's saying something.
you have no idea how much i fucking love the super intense battles of ps2, really feels like an actual full-blown war
[QUOTE=elowin;50262535]We're not talking exclusively guns. Certifications, attachments, even implants all factor into it. Although implants are for the most part pretty insignificant, both certifications and attachments can give you serious, tangible benefits with little to no downside[/quote]
Yes, and you have enough certs by BR15 to deck out one or two classes to be decent. Rarely anyone fully decks out one class anyway, since the difference between the last level and the one before it in class abilities and such is negligible, especially for a ridiculous price it demands.
[quote]And as I've already brought up just a few posts above, having options is an upgrade. If you have a gun that's better in a situation, then being able to bring it into that situation when it arises is an upgrade from not being able to do so, even if the same gun is worse than the defaults in other situations. Choice is power.[/quote]
Obviously having a choice [b]is[/b] better than not having one, and is an upgrade, but it isn't one that brings about a clear cut advantage, so a completely level playing field here is not necessary and it's not a flaw to not have one. Even if you don't have an option of bringing a gun that fits the situation you're in, you're have different options - you can pick another class (since default loadouts go like this: LA and Engineer - close range, Medic - close-medium, HA medium/medium-long, Infiltrator - long). You can also try and do good with what you have, it's fun for some people and starting guns allow for some creative use. At the absolute worst, you have the option to just up and find another fight. At no point you are completely left out. At least, not because of any particular design choice.
[quote]As for the "I want variety" zone, even if you pay for the variety they're basically ripping you off. Both Daybreak Cash and Memberships are ridiculously priced.[/QUOTE]
That I completely agree with, they should totally bring down the prices quite a bit, they are ridiculous.
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;50263472]The cert issue stems from the fact that you don't like the game enough to play it, the grind is NOWHERE like it used to be and its piss easy to get what you need in a couple days time now if you put your mind to it.
like it's cool, you dont like it, but dont make it out to be something more than that, cause it's not. the game's at it's most accessible since like... honestly the tech tests, and that's saying something.[/QUOTE]
I am fully aware that the game is better in this regard than it was earlier. That doesn't mean it's [i]good[/i] in this regard.
The issue with certs is that if you're using your cert points both to buy certs [i]and[/i] to buy weapons and attachments, it gets ridiculous. It's practically required that you use daybreak for weapons and attachments so you can actually afford the certs.
[editline]6th May 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=gudman;50264187]Yes, and you have enough certs by BR15 to deck out one or two classes to be decent. Rarely anyone fully decks out one class anyway, since the difference between the last level and the one before it in class abilities and such is negligible, especially for a ridiculous price it demands.
Obviously having a choice [b]is[/b] better than not having one, and is an upgrade, but it isn't one that brings about a clear cut advantage, so a completely level playing field here is not necessary and it's not a flaw to not have one. Even if you don't have an option of bringing a gun that fits the situation you're in, you're have different options - you can pick another class (since default loadouts go like this: LA and Engineer - close range, Medic - close-medium, HA medium/medium-long, Infiltrator - long). You can also try and do good with what you have, it's fun for some people and starting guns allow for some creative use. At the absolute worst, you have the option to just up and find another fight. At no point you are completely left out. At least, not because of any particular design choice.
That I completely agree with, they should totally bring down the prices quite a bit, they are ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
It does give a clear cut advantage, though. You're just wrong.
The most blatant example is with anti-air, and I've brought this up before. If you haven't bought the anti-air rocket launcher, you're borderline fucked against an air vehicle doing strafing runs. Yeah you could just leave, but that's kind of a cop out argument. As is "just making do" with the blatantly inferior weapons for a situation.
You can deck out a few classes (excluding weapons and attachments, and only getting a few different certs so not for every situation)
But the problem is, this is a game that, despite it's heavy specialization requirements, really emphasizes non-specialization.
It's a game where you're [i]supposed[/i] to change your loadout on a regular basis to suit the current needs of the fight.
Are your people dying? Change to a medic and go heal them. Does a sunderer need repairs? Change to engineer. Are there enemy vehicles around? Change to heavy assault.
And yet, you need a heavy degree of specialization in each to really play them optimally. That seems extremely silly.
Not even getting into vehicles which are even more egregious about this shit.
[QUOTE=elowin;50268712]
It does give a clear cut advantage, though. You're just wrong.
The most blatant example is with anti-air, and I've brought this up before. If you haven't bought the anti-air rocket launcher, you're borderline fucked against an air vehicle doing strafing runs. Yeah you could just leave, but that's kind of a cop out argument. As is "just making do" with the blatantly inferior weapons for a situation.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but that's bollocks. Anti-air rocket launcher won't save you from an aircraft doing a strafing run on your position - believe me, if I'm going air, I go exclusive ground-attack. If I'm targeting you, and you happen to be the only one with AA, you're fucked either way. As you should - I'm in a vehicle, I'm a half-decent pilot, and you're a single infantryman, the only hope of surviving this kind of odds should be if you run or if you're much better than me. Burster MAX will save you and ward me off, but then again - MAXes can survive quite a bit of pounding just by being resilient so moot point.
[quote]You can deck out a few classes (excluding weapons and attachments, and only getting a few different certs so not for every situation)
But the problem is, this is a game that, despite it's heavy specialization requirements, really emphasizes non-specialization.
It's a game where you're [i]supposed[/i] to change your loadout on a regular basis to suit the current needs of the fight.
Are your people dying? Change to a medic and go heal them. Does a sunderer need repairs? Change to engineer. Are there enemy vehicles around? Change to heavy assault.
And yet, you need a heavy degree of specialization in each to really play them optimally. That seems extremely silly.[/quote]
The game also emphasizes teamplay, you're not the only one in a fight, you're not supposed to be good at everything - most of the time, it's even impossible. Most players aren't that versatile. That's why leaving and getting into another fight is so easy in PS2 - if your team fails, there's not much you can do, decent arsenal and versatility wont' help you much.
[quote]Not even getting into vehicles which are even more egregious about this shit.[/QUOTE]
Well I've already agreed with you here, twice, I don't understand why are you bringing it up again.
after you hit level 14 you are forced to leave the new player continent. on Koltyr all the players are even and gameplay is perfectly balanced. but the novelty wears off when you're forced to leave and then it's easy to see the pay2win grindfest hidden behind it.
from level 1-14 i had a blast, but after that it's just making me want to create another character and level to 14 again
the game itself is super fun and the battles are so intense, but when you get stomped by people 6 times your level who also most likely paid for their gear over and over again it starts to become stale
[QUOTE=Piciul;50280031]after you hit level 14 you are forced to leave the new player continent. on Koltyr all the players are even and gameplay is perfectly balanced. but the novelty wears off when you're forced to leave and then it's easy to see the pay2win grindfest hidden behind it.
from level 1-14 i had a blast, but after that it's just making me want to create another character and level to 14 again
the game itself is super fun and the battles are so intense, but when you get stomped by people 6 times your level who also most likely paid for their gear over and over again it starts to become stale[/QUOTE]
I found Koltyr quite fun because of the small amount of players so you could do tactics much more easily. On the main continents there are people everywhere so if you try flanking you've probably already been flanked by an enemy.
I think most people's problem is they only go to the big fights and ignore the small ones were they are more likely to have more fun.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;50280088]I found Koltyr quite fun because of the small amount of players so you could do tactics much more easily. On the main continents there are people everywhere so if you try flanking you've probably already been flanked by an enemy.
I think most people's problem is they only go to the big fights and ignore the small ones were they are more likely to have more fun.[/QUOTE]
On the other hand, if most people were going after small fights, there would be no small fights. Even now once the fight gets more than a 12v12 it starts escalating, soon enough it's two platoons slugging it out, and then it's a black hole basically.
I enjoy support roles, so huge fights are not a problem for me. Unless they just completely stalemate.
I always thought it made sense for general effectiveness to come at a cost? If you specialize in nothing you will be decent at everything but not the best.
Specialized builds might feel better because when you find your niche you do better than a general build would do in the same situation, but you do worse in the other environments that do not suit you.
I found that its the most fun for me to specialize and be mobile, to find situations that fit my specialty rather than spending a ton of certs to fit my build to whatever situation I happen to be in. If I run my anti vehicle lightning for example and the fight has turned into an infantry-only fight, I will just find another fight where I am needed more.
I was defending a TR Biolab from NC ans the whole thing was juet a constant never ending meat grinder for about three hours. It kinda got boring after a while because it just wouldn't end.
What got annoying the most was one of the rooms that you teleport into from one of the surrounding territories was pretty much flowing of Shotgun NC Maxes which would retreat back into said room as soon as you scratched them, and the main centers of attention where so crowded that poking your head out for anything gets greeted with a hail of bullets.
Think i'll try and persuade the outfit to do something other than Biolab defense or something,.it kinda puts me off from playing.
[QUOTE=Highwind017;50280169]I was defending a TR Biolab from NC ans the whole thing was juet a constant never ending meat grinder for about three hours. It kinda got boring after a while because it just wouldn't end.
What got annoying the most was one of the rooms that you teleport into from one of the surrounding territories was pretty much flowing of Shotgun NC Maxes which would retreat back into said room as soon as you scratched them, and the main centers of attention where so crowded that poking your head out for anything gets greeted with a hail of bullets.
Think i'll try and persuade the outfit to do something other than Biolab defense or something,.it kinda puts me off from playing.[/QUOTE]
Such fights are total garbage, makes me glad that I almost exclusively play with outfits that interact with biolabs only as long as the initial MAX crash succeeds. If it doesn't, Biolab is forfeit.
I kind of hate Biolabs in a sense that they're undefendable. You [b]can[/b] fight off an attack, but if they persist, you're basically locked there. The moment you move for some other target, it'll get capped, so any Biolab that borders enemy lattice connection constantly occupies a large portion of the pop until someone finally cuts off access to it.
[QUOTE=elowin;50255516]This is a pretty late response, but whatever.
In another thread I already brought this up, but the pace at which you gain certs at the beginning is kind of disingenuous, because it slows down massively after a while. The big reason you've been earning so many certs is that they give you 100 certs for every battle rank you get. Because the first few battle ranks are extremely quick to get, you'll very quickly get yourself a decent pile of certs. It then slows down a lot to what I think is a pretty decent pace around BR10.
Then it slams the brakes, and reduces your cert gain to a tiny, utterly miniscule trickle after BR15, as it stops giving you any certs whatsoever from increasing your battle rank.
From then on, the only sources of certs are the [i]ONE[/i] cert you get per 250 experience, and the extremely minor amount you get from earning weapon medals.
For reference, most of the weapons with a lot of utility over the defaults are around 700 (699 but shut up) certs, and a few really useful ones like the NS Annihilator go over 1000.
If they kept the cert acquisition at the pace around BR10, I would be singing this games praises right now. Hell, even if they just kept the 100 certs per battle rank for all battle ranks, even with each battle rank being harder to gain than the last, that would be a massive step in the right direction.[/QUOTE]
One of the best tips for making lots of certs is to go where the action is and do supportive shit. Getting vehicle kill assists combined with an extreme menace kill assist will give you 500 exp in and of itself, with landing the final blow giving you over 1000 sometimes. Standing on a capture point gives you a sizable periodic contribution even if you already own it, and helping capture gives a massive amount as well. If you really want to make it rain, grab the revive grenades and a grenade bandolier on the medic, then go to a meat grinder like the biolabs during an alert and just constantly throw at the dead people, or go engineer and throw ammo at everyone, or grab a sunderer and follow the zerg on a continent, deploying as close to the objectives as you can to get exp from people spawning on it.
Also, the continent underpop bonuses were increased, and joining squads can give you extra exp too (squad assists give more and a lot of people have squad boosts active)
Is it just me or are 85% of NC players lemmings?
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