[QUOTE=Mingebox;51934169]I always hear the "New IPS are hard, brand recognition sells, etc." argument, and it always comes off as a pragmatic business perspective that people would otherwise never take when discussing any other aspect of a given peice of media.[/QUOTE]
Games are art and products. Something's have to be sacrificied.
Would aping lord of the rings to create your own universe be worth it? Look at Kingdoms of Amalur. Not nessecarily
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51932797]Shame they are already putting up pre orders then, isn't it? Showing a lot of stuff that is not indicative of the final product. I'm hopeful they are going to improve the combat but I'm also not going to kid myself.[/QUOTE]
The people who did are adults and are allowed to preorder things if they want to.
[QUOTE=Toothpick;51933925]The first game was mediocre because the only true gameplay there was, was the combat and it boiled down to simon says. The combat is too easily exploitable.
Now, with that and seeing the only things they seemed to have focused on is the War aspect; and since we're seeing the same animations from the first game, I can only guess that they haven't really changed much of the actual COMBAT. Sure, they added drakes for you to ride, but just like the caragors they are just "have limited fun for the moment" entities; like the super star in Mario; they aren't really core to the experience.
I'm just as hopeful as you man, I want the game to be good but I'm clearly seeing they just poured their attention into everything except improving upon the engine or the systems of the first game, which makes me wonder why because I remember a lot of people including myself having a problem with its incredibly basic and repetitive combat.[/QUOTE]
In the snippets of combat we are shown we see the following things:
-Aiming while in the air
-More takedown options
-Riding a drake
-Multiple wraith fighting thing(which I assume you can only do if your meter is full)
-Status effects(curses)
-Teleporting enemies to you
And they are pretty much adding to the nemesis system to be more involved in the combat.
I love how the war chief's intros are basically WWE disses.
"you played dirty last week comin from behind with your spirit elf bullshit, now its time for payback! this friday! in the thunderdome!"
[QUOTE=milktree;51932174]I wonder how the other people in middle earth will be involved. I doubt they will want to fight alongside talion's orc army.[/QUOTE]
What I actually want from this game is for regular folk to see Talion as a threat and stand up against him and his Uruk army.
[QUOTE=Scot;51934914]I love how the war chief's intros are basically WWE disses.
"you played dirty last week comin from behind with your spirit elf bullshit, now its time for payback! this friday! in the thunderdome!"[/QUOTE]
How to improve this game now: An orc commentator.
[QUOTE=Jetamo;51935034]How to improve this game now: An orc commentator.[/QUOTE]
A human and orc collor comentators jabbing on as you rip and tear throught Sauron's army.
"HE'S GOT A SWORD!"
[B]AS SAURON AS MY WITNESS HE IS BROKEN IN HALF![/B]
[QUOTE=kilerabv;51935063]A human and orc collor comentators jabbing on as you rip and tear throught Sauron's army.
"HE'S GOT A SWORD!"
[B]AS SAURON AS MY WITNESS HE IS BROKEN IN HALF![/B][/QUOTE]
That's great but don't let this distract you from the fact that Dumgor Iron Rider broke a 3 health bar lead in the 2nd minute by being thrown off a ledge.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;51933240]Let's just say his grave better be made a out of a low-friction material.[/QUOTE]
No no no, high friction. Then you can use it to generate electricity
[QUOTE=Takuat;51933277]As mich as people say this whenever they talk about SoM, wasn't Tolkien quite supportive of people treating it like Arthurian Legend, allowing others to donate to his world and the like, as long as Christopher approved it?
It just so happens the rest of the Tolkien estate aren't too happy with that idea[/QUOTE]
Shamus Young had a pretty good take on it. The problem with Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War isn't that the conflicts are about lore, but about themes. In Lord of the Rings, power is a source of corruption. Characters who seek power, like Boromir, Gollum, or Isildur, are villains or tragic figures at best, whereas people who reject power, like Sam and Frodo, are heroes. Evil comes from trying to dominate others.
In Shadow of Mordor, you have the supernatural ability to turn Uruks into mind-controlled thralls and as far as the game is concerned it's all good.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;51936202]Shamus Young had a pretty good take on it. The problem with Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War isn't that the conflicts are about lore, but about themes. In Lord of the Rings, power is a source of corruption. Characters who seek power, like Boromir, Gollum, or Isildur, are villains or tragic figures at best, whereas people who reject power, like Sam and Frodo, are heroes. Evil comes from trying to dominate others.
In Shadow of Mordor, you have the supernatural ability to turn Uruks into mind-controlled thralls and as far as the game is concerned it's all good.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say that's true to be honest. Celebrimbor is portrayed as a pretty big dick who's reduced to nothing but an angry ghost. Also Talion lives a miserable, shitty life while Frodo and Sam don't. Let's not forget that no matter what Talion is utterly fucked and will ultimately get killed while Frodo will be the one who does what Talion dreams of doing, everything Talion is doing right now is ultimately in vain. Just because he has powerful abilities doesn't mean it's a good thing. Isildur and Gollum got great gifts while in possession of the ring too.
Anyone know if there will be any character customization this time around besides skins?
[QUOTE=Cyler;51936737]Anyone know if there will be any character customization this time around besides skins?[/QUOTE]
7:30 in the video, looks like there is loot like armor and weapons now.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;51936202]Shamus Young had a pretty good take on it. The problem with Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War isn't that the conflicts are about lore, but about themes. In Lord of the Rings, power is a source of corruption. Characters who seek power, like Boromir, Gollum, or Isildur, are villains or tragic figures at best, whereas people who reject power, like Sam and Frodo, are heroes. Evil comes from trying to dominate others.
In Shadow of Mordor, you have the supernatural ability to turn Uruks into mind-controlled thralls and as far as the game is concerned it's all good.[/QUOTE]
Celebrimbor is a wraith so consumed by anger and hatred that he is only concerned with killing Sauron out of a need for revenge. Talion is a man who longs for death who is forced to live for as long as he is possessed. Both are engaged in endless crusade against Sauron which, during the course of the first game, brings them no closer to actually defeating Sauron. They are perpetually miserable and entirely unable to accomplish their goal.
I doubt Shadow of War will end with Sauron losing his head and a new reign of the 'Bright Lord'. Which would also still be a bad end for Talion as he doesn't want to live any more.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51936999]Celebrimbor is a wraith so consumed by anger and hatred that he is only concerned with killing Sauron out of a need for revenge. Talion is a man who longs for death who is forced to live for as long as he is possessed. Both are engaged in endless crusade against Sauron which, during the course of the first game, brings them no closer to actually defeating Sauron. They are perpetually miserable and entirely unable to accomplish their goal.
I doubt Shadow of War will end with Sauron losing his head and a new reign of the 'Bright Lord'. Which would also still be a bad end for Talion as he doesn't want to live any more.[/QUOTE]
Also, in the DLC, the themes are more evident. You play as Celebrimbor before his death, and he acquires the ring. He gets utterly consumed by it and his own desire for power and is destroyed by Sauron.
We don't yet know if Talion's tale is a tragic one for his tale has not ended.
[editline]9th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mingebox;51933240]Let's just say his grave better be made a out of a low-friction material.[/QUOTE]
As others have alluded:
[quote]There are, as previously stated, many discrepancies between Shadow of Mordor and the works of Professor Tolkien himself. So, in the strictest sense, it is entirely non-canonical.
However, one thing that Tolkien explicitly intended was for other artists or writers (fellow "sub-creators," as Tolkien would call them, just as he called himself) in succeeding generations would continue to expand the mythology for which he had laid the groundwork. He saw Arthurian legend as somewhat derivative of French legend, and felt that England should have its own cultural equivalent to Greek or Celtic mythology, which did indeed change as it was retold, expanded and altered by numerous hands over centuries. However, though Prifessor Tolkien expressed that desire openly, he did bequeath absolutely all authority to his works to his son Christopher to continue or discontinue as he saw fit.
Somewhat oddly, Christopher felt quite strongly that his father's work should not be expanded or altered in form, and has been very much displeased with the licensing of Middle Earth. So, in spirit of Professor Tolkien's wishes, you could call Shadow of Mordor arguably canon insofar as it is a retelling and expansion of the world of Arda. But, in the stricter terms of the Tolkien Estate, it should be regarded as entirely non-canon.
[url]https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/70777/how-well-does-shadow-of-mordor-fit-into-middle-earth-canon[/url][/quote]
Also personally, I'm a fairly big LotR fan and I have a friend who is an even [I]bigger[/I] LotR fan, probably the biggest I know, and none of us particularly care that it's not canon. If you wanna do something original or make a good game or anything in this world, you need to sorta bend the rules and we understand that.
Was a huge fan of the first game. It eventually got boring but the world felt extremely alive and there wasn't ever a moment where I felt particularly bored until I had done all there is to do in the game. I always liked how random warlords would show up to interfere in your shit, and I thought it was neat that you could effectively condition them and turn them into the ultimate badass based on how you fought them. Made for some really interesting and dynamic fights. One dude turned into my arch enemy and killed me at every encounter until I was finally able to kill the fucker, it felt really rewarding.
I really like the world of LotR and personally I think Shadow of Mordor is fucking awesome. It's basically a video game equivalent of a fanfiction. You can pick it apart all you want but I think it's pretty clear that they are just trying to build a world of their own within the LotR universe and not greatly expand on what we already have.
The new one looks awesome and I'm glad to see they've expanded on all the wraith stuff. I always felt that was a criminally underused part of the first game. I'm really looking forward to this.
Haven't played the first game, maybe I'll buy it one day and buy this.
[QUOTE=kilerabv;51934541]In the snippets of combat we are shown we see the following things:
-Aiming while in the air
-More takedown options
-Riding a drake
-Multiple wraith fighting thing(which I assume you can only do if your meter is full)
-Status effects(curses)
-Teleporting enemies to you
And they are pretty much adding to the nemesis system to be more involved in the combat.[/QUOTE]
Thing is, that is only fluff. You can keep adding stuff to a combat system but if the core of it lacks any depth or challenge then additional fluff like that doesn't really change anything. I played the original game on the hardest difficulty and could take down strogholds by simply spamming attack and counter attack at the same time and by doing so I was invisible, no enemy could touch me. The only challenge where those shield guys that I had to jump over before returning to spamming attack and counter attack. There was no depth and no challenge to the core combat and any new ability I unlocked didn't really matter, it was a straight up button masher in the most literal sense of the word. The only thing the game had going for it was the nemesis system.
[QUOTE=Amakir;51939325]Thing is, that is only fluff. You can keep adding stuff to a combat system but if the core of it lacks any depth or challenge then additional fluff like that doesn't really change anything. I played the original game on the hardest difficulty and could take down strogholds by simply spamming attack and counter attack at the same time and by doing so I was invisible, no enemy could touch me. The only challenge where those shield guys that I had to jump over before returning to spamming attack and counter attack. There was no depth and no challenge to the core combat and any new ability I unlocked didn't really matter, it was a straight up button masher in the most literal sense of the word. The only thing the game had going for it was the nemesis system.[/QUOTE]
Sure
Mash attack and see how that goes
am i the only person on earth that didnt hate the combat
i finished shadow of mordor today and it was alright. it was pretty easy except for the one warchief i faced who was immune to near everything so i had to brand another captain to take him on for me.
i was a little disappointed in the nemesis system. it was fun, but i lost my nemesis early on. i killed him six times, Stakûga the Skinner, and that was it. i had no real guy chasing me around after that. BUT he showed up for the final battle just outside the Tower, so that was a pleasant surprise. too bad he still died really fast.
[QUOTE=LeonS;51941080]i finished shadow of mordor today and it was alright. it was pretty easy except for the one warchief i faced who was immune to near everything so i had to brand another captain to take him on for me.
i was a little disappointed in the nemesis system. it was fun, but i lost my nemesis early on. i killed him six times, Stakûga the Skinner, and that was it. i had no real guy chasing me around after that. BUT he showed up for the final battle just outside the Tower, so that was a pleasant surprise. too bad he still died really fast.[/QUOTE]
I've played through it three times(on my third play through at the moment) and in some of them I've had a persistent set of orc enemies that wouldn't fucking die, and in this playthrough I'm having none of that
it's really a bit too random.
R.I.P In Peace my friend
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qre0RyY0gMQ[/media]
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;51936202]Shamus Young had a pretty good take on it. The problem with Shadows of Mordor/Shadows of War isn't that the conflicts are about lore, but about themes. In Lord of the Rings, power is a source of corruption. Characters who seek power, like Boromir, Gollum, or Isildur, are villains or tragic figures at best, whereas people who reject power, like Sam and Frodo, are heroes. Evil comes from trying to dominate others.
In Shadow of Mordor, you have the supernatural ability to turn Uruks into mind-controlled thralls and as far as the game is concerned it's all good.[/QUOTE]
Others have already pointed out how Talion and Celebrimbor actually are stuck in a pretty tragic situation, but I thought Id point out that there is more of a corruption theme in the bright lord DLC than in the main game.
When you play as Celebrimbor before his death, it's made abundantly clear that you are walking a very dark path.
Loading screen lore and the like constantly mentions how you are dooming yourself, and how every second you wield the ring brings you further from being able to pass on after death in the manner that elves usually do.
It also makes a point of showing that you really aren't befriending the orcs you that brand. Once you have branded a few of the captains the rest will begin to beg for death after being defeated, seeing the bright lord's corruption as a worse fate. Just as the dark lord does, You rule orcs through fear to make them act towards your own ends. And even then, [sp] this power backfires on you during the final battle with Sauron, where he simply re-asserts his own dominance on the Orcs you have brought with you, meaning you have to fight him AND your would be backup, playing into the whole theme of Sauron inevitably turning the ring's power against anyone planning to use it for good [/sp].
Celebrimbor's story was that he basically became another Sauron with a different agenda, but was betrayed by the power of the ring, ultimately being defeated and murdered along with his whole family.
That's not exactly giving the impression that being corrupted by power never turns out badly.
[QUOTE=LeonS;51941080]i finished shadow of mordor today and it was alright. it was pretty easy except for the one warchief i faced who was immune to near everything so i had to brand another captain to take him on for me.
i was a little disappointed in the nemesis system. it was fun, but i lost my nemesis early on. i killed him six times, Stakûga the Skinner, and that was it. i had no real guy chasing me around after that. BUT he showed up for the final battle just outside the Tower, so that was a pleasant surprise. too bad he still died really fast.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, towards the second half you begin to realize how shallow the nemesis system really is.
The Bright Lord DLC is a bit harder, though.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51940663]Sure
Mash attack and see how that goes[/QUOTE]
That's what I did while also mashing the counter button. I could reinstall the game and film me taking down a stronghold by just doing that if you don't believe me.
[QUOTE=Amakir;51943469]That's what I did while also mashing the counter button. I could reinstall the game and film me taking down a stronghold by just doing that if you don't believe me.[/QUOTE]
if you're mashing both then sure, but I have the game installed now, and if you go to a high level fort, and do that, it's not going to work out super well. there's caragors that come in, often you get jumped by multiple orc warbosses over a long enough fight. if you're max leveled, yeah, it's not super hard, but i'm not sure what could be done to change that in a good way
they're adding a lot more, and the combat system isn't the only thing in the game so you're free to feel that way but I don't see it
and lets not forget that we still haven't actually seen anything of it because they were clearing rushing through everything to get the different systems that they're aiming for shown off.
mashing the counter button and attack button simultaneously doesn't work either lol
you'll just cancel combos constantly and interrupt hits
Edit:
There's also the fact that freeflow combat requires a directional input to choose who you're gonna hit, and that some enemies can't be countered and require double taps of the jump button
[QUOTE=Dippeggs;51942807]R.I.P In Peace my friend
(Tribute to Az-Laar)
[/QUOTE]
Man, I love this kind of advertising. Shows that they have chill and dont take this too seriously. Also fits in the idea of having unique allies that you can favor in the game.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51943519]if you're mashing both then sure, but I have the game installed now, and if you go to a high level fort, and do that, it's not going to work out super well. there's caragors that come in, often you get jumped by multiple orc warbosses over a long enough fight. if you're max leveled, yeah, it's not super hard, but i'm not sure what could be done to change that in a good way[/QUOTE]
Look at Japanese action games that actually have some degree of depth and challenge to their combat system?
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