It fucking baffles me that they decided to make stamina a finite resource when MGS V specifically let you sprint forever because having to constantly slow the fuck down to catch your breath is the antithesis of fun.
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53157391]The Sorrow-river was anything [I]but[/I] subtle. The game took the corpses of everything and everyone you killed and shoved it into your face, one by one, draining your health if you dared touch them and/or staggering your progress - meanwhile the Sorrow yammers on endlessly about how terrible you are and force ghosts endlessly charging out from the brush telling you about their families and kids and their pain and that you've made them suffer and die.[/QUOTE]
The first time I played through the game, I just thought that was how the fight was normally. It wasn't until I read up on the internet that I realized it changed based on how many you kill.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;53157395]Survive is a lot closer to a main-line title than Rising is, since it's more or less an expansion pack for MGSV, using the same engine and mechanics.[/QUOTE]
ghost babel is the same engine as mg2 and uses the same mechanics.
still a spinoff.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157407]The first time I played through the game, I just thought that was how the fight was normally. It wasn't until I read up on the internet that I realized it changed based on how many you kill.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't really have any bearing at all on how subtle it was. You didn't realize it was connected to your actions because, I guess, you weren't paying attention to begin with. The game was [I]telling you[/I] it was based on your actions and showed you directly what you'd left in your wake. My supposition is that you presumed that the game just assumed that you killed a bunch of people because that's what you do in every other game; doesn't really make what it did subtle.
I imagine it went over your head because you weren't thinking about what you were doing to start with - which was more or less what the game was trying to beat into you with a rubber chicken.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157424]ghost babel is the same engine as mg2 and uses the same mechanics.
still a spinoff.[/QUOTE]
What point is it you're trying to make with this comparison?
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157435]What point is it you're trying to make with this comparison?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157390]also weird to see him compare main numbered titles with a spinoff[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;53157430]That doesn't really have any bearing at all on how subtle it was. You didn't realize it was connected to your actions because, I guess, you weren't paying attention to begin with. The game was [I]telling you[/I] it was based on your actions and showed you directly what you'd left in your wake. My supposition is that you presumed that the game just assumed that you killed a bunch of people because that's what you do in every other game; doesn't really make what it did subtle.
I imagine it went over your head because you weren't thinking about what you were doing to start with - which was more or less what the game was trying to beat into you with a rubber chicken.[/QUOTE]
Kind of became obvious to me right away that it was based on my actions when several dudes I killed via throat slashing showed up with their throats slashed open, whining about how painful it was.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157437]-[/QUOTE]
Yeah and whats your point?
Mechanically its in line with the prior games, and its a spin-off, what about that is weird when making a comparison to the games its both mechanically based on and spun out of?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157394]Also MGS V lowkey punishes you for being predictable anyway, even for non-lethal behavior, since enemies adapt fairly well to your tactics and start using extra equipment to counter or imitate you.[/QUOTE]
That mechanic always felt unfinished to me. The worst I saw was guys started wearing helmets. Oh no, helmets! Guess I just have to shoot them in the face now.
I'm 12 or so hours into Survive. There are bad decisions in there to talk about, and I have repeatedly, but few reviews and videos that have come out have gone beyond the reactionary "DUDE ZOMBIES, KOJIMA GOT FIRED" bullshit. It's a bad look when you're trying to mix that with valid criticisms like some mechanics being less deep than they were in MGSV, or some systems taking too long to unlock, or cars and walker gears only being able to drive for a minute or so, or every single action having a hold-and-wait prompt instead of an instant one for some goddamn reason.
Also, every time I hear complaints about the dust disabling your waypoint and map location I think back to people being absolutely livid at newer Fallout and Elder Scrolls games giving you a marker to point your screen at and walk toward, and now a game comes out with a mechanic that turns that on it's head and people hate it for it? The exploration and cartography aspect makes for some really good moments, it encourages exploration and that exploration is rewarded with tons of resources and extra recipes for gear and fucking Beatmania and Policenauts songs to blast out of your base's speakers. The travel systems and side-ops popping up as you play make it so you're practically never just sprinting straight to your next objective.
Is it worth $40 and selling your soul to evil pachinko men? Probably not, but it doesn't nearly deserve the flak it's getting.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157394]I find that hard to believe considering how much people still praise 3, 4 and 5 to this day on how much fun shit there is to do that still does not involve outright killing people.
[/QUOTE]
That's not the issue he's talking about, though. No matter how many different bonuses and secrets and nice guns MGS games have, the tranq/silenced lethal pistol/three hit cqc combo you get in the first hour of the game and keep by your side for the majority of the rest of it is a quick and boring way to dispatch enemies. That's the exact same case with thrusting weapons in Survive, and the fence trick that comes with them.
When you actually play survive, you realize your 'stick' slot is also the slot that a sledgehammer, a bow or a long rifle take up. A sledgehammer feels fantastic and does incredible crowd control without needing to plonk down fences, the bow gives you cheap, silent, ranged kills with different ammo types and elemental effects, the rifle is your high-end option further down the game's progression. Your playstyle is supposed to evolve as the game opens more doors for you, the game spoils you for choice with regards to weaponry and gadgets.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157390]no surprise dunkey doesn't like survive, considering how big of a kojima fan he is and his support of #fuckkonami.
also weird to see him compare main numbered titles with a spinoff, not to mention the footage of the first 30 minutes of survive being compared to however many hours into mgsv the footage he showed was considering he showed the rocket punch.[/QUOTE]
Because it's a spinoff does not excuse how bland and uninspired it is as a game. Rising was also a spinoff and can [I]still[/I] be compared to the original franchise because despite being such a farcry in terms of gameplay it still manages to keep its themes, its overall aesthetic and the inventive design with a propensity to encourage creative playstyles.
He could have compared Raiden slicing up people and running around countering giant robots with a sword to a soldier wheezing for breath and starving while bonking zombies with a stick and the point would have been the same.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157447]That mechanic always felt unfinished to me. The worst I saw was guys started wearing helmets. Oh no, helmets! Guess I just have to shoot them in the face now.[/QUOTE]
Well no duh, the game is unfinished because Konami decided to shitcan Kojima (whilst actively doing things detrimental to development) and focus entirely on pachislot machines.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157447]That mechanic always felt unfinished to me. The worst I saw was guys started wearing helmets. Oh no, helmets! Guess I just have to shoot them in the face now.[/QUOTE]
They also start using some of your own gadgets if you use them frequently enough. Notably they have their own version of the inflatable Big Boss if they get tricked by it enough times.
It never occurs if you play extremely stealthy since the enemy never learns what tricks you're using, or if you simply never do anything out of the ordinary... like constantly shooting people in the head.
To list a few things that change depending on how you play the game:
- They wear helmets when you frequently land headshots.
- They shoot fultons more and more accurately the more you use them in their line of sight.
- They're more suspicious and more likely to report things to CP if you're sneaky but still interact with them.
- They tend to place more landmines near their outposts if you sneak by them.
- They notice you faster if you've been spotted a lot.
- They use decoys if you use them a lot.
- They use better combat gear if you're very aggressive.
- They wear NVGs if you mostly operate at night.
- They wear gasmasks if you use gas-based gadgets.
[QUOTE=Jackald;53157491]It's basically a AAA asset flip because MGSV was expensive to make and they wanted to re-use assets.[/QUOTE]
As far as im concerned its a standalone expansion pack.
everyone always talks about how it was so much fun using the rocket fist and being a retard in mgsv but the actual interesting parts of the game will always be hiding in the shadow waiting for the perfect moment for a guard to walk past
there has never been a more immersive experience than sneaking at night in the Afghanistan map
[QUOTE=grob;53157531]everyone always talks about how it was so much fun using the rocket fist and being a retard in mgsv but the actual interesting parts of the game will always be hiding in the shadow waiting for the perfect moment for a guard to walk past
there has never been a more immersive experience than sneaking at night in the Afghanistan map[/QUOTE]
The reason all the comedy and silly bits, and all the over the top supernatural/supervillain stuff worked is because it was all portioned out.
Icing on the cake makes it even better, but nobody should eat a cake made out of icing.
Compared to the previous games in the series, MGSurvive is a bad game. Yes it's even worse than Portable Ops
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;53157564]Compared to the previous games in the series, MGSurvive is a bad game. Yes it's even worse than Portable Ops[/QUOTE]
Portable Ops was good for what it was. I have fond memories of the online mode. Even made some friends there.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157424]ghost babel is the same engine as mg2 and uses the same mechanics.
still a spinoff.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure Ghost Babel uses a completely different engine than Metal Gear 2 considering that they feel completely different, where released for two wildly different systems, where developed back when game engines barely where a thing and where released eight years apart from each other.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157457]They also start using some of your own gadgets if you use them frequently enough. Notably they have their own version of the inflatable Big Boss if they get tricked by it enough times.
It never occurs if you play extremely stealthy since the enemy never learns what tricks you're using, or if you simply never do anything out of the ordinary... like constantly shooting people in the head.
To list a few things that change depending on how you play the game:
- They wear helmets when you frequently land headshots.
- They shoot fultons more and more accurately the more you use them in their line of sight.
- They're more suspicious and more likely to report things to CP if you're sneaky but still interact with them.
- They tend to place more landmines near their outposts if you sneak by them.
- They notice you faster if you've been spotted a lot.
- They use decoys if you use them a lot.
- They use better combat gear if you're very aggressive.
- They wear NVGs if you mostly operate at night.
- They wear gasmasks if you use gas-based gadgets.[/QUOTE]
In my experience the enemies end up doing all of these once you get far enough in the game regardless of what playstyle you use.
Also almost all of them can be negated just by using the stupid fucking away mission garbage. Which is a huge missed opportunity, because it would have been way more engaging and added an element of actual open world gameplay if you had to intercept convoys or blow up/steal storage units yourself to cut off those supplies.
wonder why dunkey didnt mention Peace Walker while talking about previous metal gear games
[QUOTE=Svinnik;53157786]wonder why dunkey didnt mention Peace Walker while talking about previous metal gear games[/QUOTE]
People forget it's a mainline game when it was a handheld game. Sorta like what's happened with Kingdom Hearts
[QUOTE=Svinnik;53157786]wonder why dunkey didnt mention Peace Walker while talking about previous metal gear games[/QUOTE]
Many people seem to forget that Peace Walker was a thing
I find it odd how people seem to be popping up to adamantly defend this game and Konami so much as of late.
Like, its perfectly fine to buy it and enjoy it, i dont think anyones saying you're wrong if you're having fun with it, thats just personal taste (and i havent played it so i cant really say anything regarding whether its good or bad personally), but there are perfectly valid criticisms that can be leveled against the game itself, the context in which it exists, as well as the practices that led to it being what it is and existing in the first place.
Unrelated but in general considering the precedent set by what happened to Team Silent and Silent Hill i have a bad feeling about whats gonna happen to the Metal Gear IP in the future. I can already imagine an MGS6 being made by some western developer who has absolutely no idea what the series should be.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157832]I find it odd how people seem to be popping up to adamantly defend this game and Konami so much as of late.
Like, its perfectly fine to buy it and enjoy it, i dont think anyones saying you're wrong if you're having fun with it, thats just personal taste (and i havent played it so i cant really say anything regarding whether its good or bad personally), but there are perfectly valid criticisms that can be leveled against the game itself, the context in which it exists, as well as the practices that led to it being what it is and existing in the first place.
Unrelated but in general considering the precedent set by what happened to Team Silent and Silent Hill i have a bad feeling about whats gonna happen to the Metal Gear IP in the future. I can already imagine an MGS6 being made by some western developer who has absolutely no idea what the series should be.[/QUOTE]
I think what is happening here is not people trying defending everything Konami did, but trying not to be associated with the whole "Fuckonami" Fanboy wave who are getting a lot of bad rep lately for being overly irrational lately.
And yes, some people who were MGS fan in the past seem to enjoy MG Survive for what it is, they are just protecting the game and the purchase they have made.
Nothing wrong with both.
I am a long year fan of the series? Yes
Do I like MG Survive? No, I subjectively think it is not a good game
Is Konami to blame for what has happened with MGSV and the business relations to Kojima? Not entirely, Hideo Kojima as the Producer of the game is also to blame and there is no way of denying it
Is Konami a money focused piece of shit? Yes
Would I look forward if another studio gives a try to MGS 6? Yes
[QUOTE=DMGaina;53157823]Many people seem to forget that Peace Walker was a thing[/QUOTE]
It's kind of weird because MGSV's setting kind of falls apart without it
Maybe that's why so many people claim it makes no sense
[QUOTE=RichyZ;53157861]i've played up to raxa and a lot of poops+ multiplayer and i can easily tell you that survive is better[/QUOTE]
It hurts me to say but RAXA was even a bigger piece of garbage than the Sahelanthropus and that means a lot.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157832]Like, its perfectly fine to buy it and enjoy it, i dont think anyones saying you're wrong if you're having fun with it, thats just personal taste (and i havent played it so i cant really say anything regarding whether its good or bad personally), but there are perfectly valid criticisms that can be leveled against the game itself, the context in which it exists, as well as the practices that led to it being what it is and existing in the first place.[/QUOTE]
the reason is there's a lot of bias and flat out misrepresentation
even some of the criticisms dunkey has in the video were just flat out lies, you don't have to run to base camp to eat even fresh kills
A lot of it boils down to the games fun and the kojima drama is the main thing being leveraged against it over all else, it was free to play for like 3 days and some people just refused to even try it and kept blasting it
yes there were a few fair points in the video and yes there's some things everyone would like to see changed, it's far from perfect.
Can you imagine if they did what Dunkey actually suggests? Make Metal Gear 6 and release it every year like Assassins Creed? Then everyone would be shitting the bed. Part of the reason Survive is what it is is because they knew if they went straight for mainseries and canon that it could be secretly directed by Kojima in a pseudonym and people would still hate and reject it.
This is testing waters for sure. If Dunkey really wants them to start churning out rushed Metal Gear sequels with Snake there's still a chance of that. I'm just surprised to hear anyone say they want that to happen though. I remember before Survive was announced people were already angry at the idea of any main series continuation without kojima
[editline]24th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;53157861]i've played up to raxa and a lot of poops+ multiplayer and i can easily tell you that survive is better
portable ops isnt completely awful but it didn't get the good (for psp) control scheme peacewalker had and the mission variety was ass
as far as spinoffs go, survive aint that bad once you get past all the scummy bits involving konami and the micros and shit, i can actually go back to survive and have fun with it, i really cant have much fun with ac!d or its sequel, or portable ops[/QUOTE]
But can it understand why kids love the power packed levels of Snake's Revenge?
[QUOTE=redBadger;53157340]His comparisons at the beginning were a bit weak since Metal Gear Rising departs from the main line games as well.[/QUOTE]
Woah theres another metal gear game that isnt like metal gear.
That means Survive is good!
[QUOTE=Oizen;53157904]Woah theres another metal gear game that isnt like metal gear.
That means Survive is good![/QUOTE]
or maybe it's a flaw in people's arguments of how survive doesn't fit the metal gear canon, because it isn't supposed to.
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