Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;32407833]Why don't people just rent the game? It's just a few bucks from Blockbuster or no Gamefly (now even Netflix). That way you can test the game and return it if you don't like it.[/QUOTE] I can't rent games here, or at least nowhere close to me. And instead of spending money on the game, I'd spend money on renting the game since last time I checked it wasn't cheap, it was expensive.

[QUOTE=DarkendSky;32407805]I've pirated a few new games to try them out, then bought them if I enjoyed it. Almost every game doesn't have a demo these days, and I've had some pretty bad experiences with games I bought that turned out to be really really terrible. Yeah, yeah, I know demos cost money, [B]but if you aren't going to make the effort to show me something about a game other than pre-rendered footage and lame multiplayer deathmatch gameplay, you can deal with me stealing your game to try it out and see if I want to buy it or not.[/B][/QUOTE] That's a poor argument when you could find plenty of "Let's Plays" or user made game videos on Youtube. [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Daniellynet;32407950]Yeah.. I've had games where I said "fuck no, not buying that shit", still pirated it, but then I bought it because the game was actually good. However, I've also had games that I impulse bought that turned out to be shit.. That's why I hate buying a game before trying it first, and demos are usually just too short to test the game.[/QUOTE] That's not the fault of the gaming company making a terrible game, but rather you having no impulse control and failing to properly check out a game to see if it's good. In this day and age we're saturated by both official and user based information concerning pretty much everything, there's enough material out there to make an intelligent decision concerning if you'd want to get a game or not.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32393929]You are not allowed to distribute copies of cd's you bought to anyone [B]that isn't in your household[/B] so it doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] But this friend was in my household at the time, so your point is invalid. [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Macktastic;32394028]basically almost all forms of digital media have some sort of copyright protection on them. If you were to simply copy and distribute a disc, whoever you give that disc to would have to circumvent the DRM in order to access the content. Which would be illegal. You can circumvent the DRM yourself, and then distribute the content, but then that would be illegal as well, because you are only allowed to circumvent DRM when the DRM directly affects your ability to access the content, which wouldn't be the case here.[/QUOTE] Circumvent my ass.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409053]But this friend was in my household at the time, so your point is invalid. [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] Circumvent my ass.[/QUOTE] You're British but don't know the meaning of the word household, okay :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32409073]You're British but don't know the meaning of the word household, okay :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] You are going off topic, you said "copying and distributing" outside of the home is illegal, but if I distributed it to someone INSIDE THE HOUSE then nothing illegal occurred.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409096]You are going off topic, you said "copying and distributing" outside of the home is illegal, but if I distributed it to someone INSIDE THE HOUSE then nothing illegal occurred.[/QUOTE] A friend that comes over is not part of your household, that's the key.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32409121]A friend that comes over is not part of your household, that's the key.[/QUOTE] But it's a gift, that's the key of the whole situation.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409138]But it's a gift, that's the key of the whole situation.[/QUOTE] That has nothing what so ever to do with it, a gift or not it's still illegal.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32409155]That has nothing what so ever to do with it, a gift or not it's still illegal.[/QUOTE] There are so many ways in which you are wrong. If I took this to court they would have no case at all. Copying 1s and 0s is not illegal. However if they were to SELL it, then they would have a case.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409214]There are so many ways in which you are wrong. If I took this to court they would have no case at all. Copying 1s and 0s is not illegal. However if they were to SELL it, then they would have a case.[/QUOTE] Nope, you're wrong. Copying is ONLY legal if you intend to keep the copy as a backup, and don't distribute it to people not currently living in your house.

[QUOTE=Irockz;32379926]stealing is taking one's possessions. This is a [b]copy[/b] of it. You're not taking it from the creators. Therefore I'm alright with it.[/QUOTE] But this is true for all digital products, if downloaded illegally or bought legitimately.

There is no denying that technology has enabled it possible to distribute data however people please. I can record movies that are shown on TV, make thousands of copies and nobody would care any less. Recording music off the radio isn't controllable because it is already "PERFORMED LIVE AND DISTRIBUTED" through airwaves. What gives them the right the press someone for recording if they made it publicly available in the first place?

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409423]There is no denying that technology has enabled it possible to distribute data however people please. I can record movies that are shown on TV, make thousands of copies and nobody would care any less. Recording music off the radio isn't controllable because it is already "PERFORMED LIVE AND DISTRIBUTED" through airwaves. What gives them the right the press someone for recording if they made it publicly available in the first place?[/QUOTE] You pay taxes to be allowed to listen to the radio FYI.

Dude, content is freely available. There is no way someone can prosecute for the fact that 1s and 0s are being transferred. It's pure dumbness. And they can make people feel sad by saying people are losing money, but movie theaters make millions and live shows earn the band more than they get from the company. The only person that loses is the money-hungry companies who are upset.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409630]Dude, content is freely available. There is no way someone can prosecute for the fact that 1s and 0s are being transferred. It's pure dumbness. And they can make people feel sad by saying people are losing money, but movie theaters make millions and live shows earn the band more than they get from the company. The only person that loses is the money-hungry companies who are upset.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;48rz8udZBmQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48rz8udZBmQ&feature=related[/video] Those 1s and 0s are copyright protected and if you seriously think that there is no law that forbids distributing specific bundles of 1s and 0s that are copyright then, see video above. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming." - Dav0r))[/highlight]

Now that you've resolved your arguement by giving up, this discussion is over.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409719]Now that you've resolved your arguement by giving up, this discussion is over.[/QUOTE] You keep saying content is freely available but that simply isn't true. Intellectual property including but not limited to digital content is protected trough copyright and if you can't get your head around that and keep saying "but it's free and everyone can get it" then this discussion is indeed over.

I didn't say "it's free so everyone should do it", I'm just saying that technology has enabled it to be so easy to distribute such data that it can't be protected by law. This isn't drug dealing, this is a matter of electric signals being sent down a wire. Nothing has caused harm and nobody has lost. The reason that the music industry has gone down the shitter is that people have become more closed minded to their tastes. The movie industry is still booming on the other hand.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409766]I didn't say "it's free so everyone should do it", I'm just saying that technology has enabled it to be so easy to distribute such data that it can't be protected by law. This isn't drug dealing, this is a matter of electric signals being sent down a wire. Nothing has caused harm and nobody has lost. The reason that the music industry has gone down the shitter is that people have become more closed minded to their tastes. The movie industry is still booming on the other hand.[/QUOTE] It is idiotic to say the least to justify piracy simply by saying "it's easy and doesn't harm anyone so they shouldn't make a big deal out of it". What I have been saying trough out the whole thread and will keep saying is that you should not ever try to justify piracy, and not ever claim that it isn't stealing, because it is. You should however just do it if you want to, and not do it if you don't want to. That's it. No stupid reasons as to why piracy wouldn't be stealing or why it would be justified to pirate. It simply is not, and can not be justified. The End. It is morally wrong and it is stealing, but if you can life with that by all means pirate away, I couldn't care less. The only thing I care about is people trying to justify something that isn't justify-able.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409766]I didn't say "it's free so everyone should do it", I'm just saying that technology has enabled it to be so easy to distribute such data that it can't be protected by law. This isn't drug dealing, this is a matter of electric signals being sent down a wire. Nothing has caused harm and nobody has lost. The reason that the music industry has gone down the shitter is that people have become more closed minded to their tastes. The movie industry is still booming on the other hand.[/QUOTE] people have become more closed minded to their tastes? are you fucking joking the reason the music industry has 'gone down the shitter' is because every twat with a computer can use youtubedownloader or go onto piratebay instead of actually buying music. everyone still has tastes in music, be it justin bieber or hardcore metal- most fanbases still exist with fans moving from one taste to another or even liking all, but the music certainly isnt going down because of taste. if you had any clue about the industry you'd know the sheer amount of money that is lost through illegal downloading, and since the death of vinyl companies like junodownload, chemical records, beatport have had to double their prices on FLAC, AAC and WAV formats in order to compensate for the loss in mp3 download- and this not only harms the music industry but also the club djs and major producers that play out this stuff. ever wonder why alot of producers have a song and keep it as a dub for 2 years before releasing it? because you can't pirate a gig.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409766]I didn't say "it's free so everyone should do it", I'm just saying that technology has enabled it to be so easy to distribute such data that it can't be protected by law. [B]This isn't drug dealing, this is a matter of electric signals being sent down a wire. Nothing has caused harm and nobody has lost.[/B] The reason that the music industry has gone down the shitter is that people have become more closed minded to their tastes. The movie industry is still booming on the other hand.[/QUOTE] I could describe drug dealing or other illegal activities as being something as innocent and logical as, "just a bunch of 0s and 1s" or "electric signals being sent down a wire." Doesn't make it any less wrong.

[QUOTE=Bobie;32409849]people have become more closed minded to their tastes? are you fucking joking the reason the music industry has 'gone down the shitter' is because every twat with a computer can use youtubedownloader or go onto piratebay instead of actually buying music. everyone still has tastes in music, be it justin bieber or hardcore metal- most fanbases still exist with fans moving from one taste to another or even liking all, but the music certainly isnt going down because of taste. if you had any clue about the industry you'd know the sheer amount of money that is lost through illegal downloading, and since the death of vinyl companies like junodownload, chemical records, beatport have had to double their prices on FLAC, AAC and WAV formats in order to compensate for the loss in mp3 download- and this not only harms the music industry but also the club djs and major producers that play out this stuff. ever wonder why alot of producers have a song and keep it as a dub for 2 years before releasing it? because you can't pirate a gig.[/QUOTE] Come on... be realistic how many true music enthusiasts are out there collecting? [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Bobie;32409849]the death of vinyl[/QUOTE] I still collect vinyl, even though hardly any of the money I spend on it goes to the artist.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409889]Come on... be realistic how many true music enthusiasts are out there collecting?[/QUOTE] i know only a few guys that don't even spin and buy vinyl and high quality formats, but there's still a HUGE community for that kinda thing found mostly only in DJs and EDM enthusiasts. it's been a long time since i've bought any rock CDs or vinyl but im sure there must be something similar to what we have in other genres too. and there's no such thing as being a 'music enthusiast' to be honest, but you can't have a serious love for music if you download shit off of youtube or any piracy websites- most people i know who actively pirate a lot of stuff don't give a shit about music and only do it to show their friends they got the latest album before them.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32409053]Circumvent my ass.[/QUOTE] what are you even trying to say

[QUOTE=Bobie;32409978]i know only a few guys that don't even spin and buy vinyl and high quality formats, but there's still a HUGE community for that kinda thing found mostly only in DJs and EDM enthusiasts. it's been a long time since i've bought any rock CDs or vinyl but im sure there must be something similar to what we have in other genres too. and there's no such thing as being a 'music enthusiast' to be honest, but you can't have a serious love for music if you download shit off of youtube or any piracy websites- most people i know who actively pirate a lot of stuff don't give a shit about music and only do it to show their friends they got the latest album before them.[/QUOTE] Agree with you wholeheartedly. But then again, positives can be brought out of it. It enables more to be interested in music... maybe.

[QUOTE=SuppliesAttack;32397463] [I]"I pirated, didn't like it, and didn't buy it! Lucky me, saved $50!"[/I] Lucky for you. The developer just lost a possible sale due to piracy.[/QUOTE] Lost a possible sale because of the amount of PR developers put in their products just to sell it. Nowadays, developers and publishers care for the attention and buying costs, not for the final product and customer reaction. I fucking hate that, and despise all those developers. Looking at you, fucktivision.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32410077]Agree with you wholeheartedly. But then again, positives can be brought out of it. It enables more to be interested in music... maybe.[/QUOTE] well what it does mean is that so long as smaller artists music isnt uploaded in full to youtube there is no way that you can pirate it, which has brought a lot of major labels to their knees- paving the way for those that are truly dedicated to music we can only hope though that one day there'll be an un-exploitable yet cheap method of selling music, i would rather have a solid ban on all music piracy and have to only pay maybe 30-50p for an mp3 rather than the £1.50 a 320kbps costs now

[QUOTE=Devodiere;32406499]As much as I want to agree with this, it's still wrong. If you think something might be shit, get some reviews or other people's opinion on it. It's not essential that you play it so if you don't think it'll be worth it, you can't have your cake and eat it too, figure out if you want it or not. There's plenty of crap games you never have to play so it's not going to hurt you if you don't play it at all. It is a better position and it's one that I support, but it's still piracy and still wrong in a lot of ways.[/QUOTE] if the sale is made what is the issue? or do i have a moral obligation to absolutely hate a game but buy it anyway? i pirated Duke Nukem Forever and it was absolutely atrocious, and as a result i didn't buy it. is it really fair to me, the consumer, that i should be tricked into buying a terrible product based solely on hype?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32410438]if the sale is made what is the issue? or do i have a moral obligation to absolutely hate a game but buy it anyway? i pirated Duke Nukem Forever and it was absolutely atrocious, and as a result i didn't buy it. [B]is it really fair to me, the consumer, that i should be tricked into buying a terrible product based solely on hype?[/B][/QUOTE] If you're an idiot and didn't properly look into reviews or watch any post-release videos of the game itself, then yeah, you do. If you're intelligent enough to know how to pirate games, then you're intelligent enough to do proper research into a game you're interested in.

[QUOTE=SuppliesAttack;32397463]You're arguing on terms of supply, that the supply of a product is what a company loses due to theft, and that since software has an infinite supply, they do not take a loss when it is pirated. Though this is true (a software company does not lose money from loss of supply), you're neglecting demand. In a case where a person steals property, they were potential customers of the property they took (if they had absolutely no interest in the product, why would they steal it?). Since they now have the product, they no longer need to buy it, which in turn lowers the demand. [I]"I pirated a game and got 5 friends to buy it! Piracy helps game developers! It increases demand!"[/I] Nice argument you got there. Had you bought it and showed friends, it would have had the same effect. Piracy robbed the developer of a sale. [I]"I pirated, liked it, and bought it!"[/I] I'll be fair, you didn't make the developer lose a sale. Still, what makes you entitled to try out software before buying it? [I]"I pirated, didn't like it, and didn't buy it! Lucky me, saved $50!"[/I] Lucky for you. The developer just lost a possible sale due to piracy.[/QUOTE] wrong on three accounts 1. so the PUBLISHER loses a sale but gains 5, leaving them with 4 purchases that would have otherwise not been made? but oh god oh god its terrible. though i do agree on some level because i think if you enjoy the product you should buy it, your arguments make no sense 2. so you admit that there is no harm done, but you continue to attack the pirate asking what entitles them to a demo of sorts? there really isn't anything that "entitles" them to this, but what entitles a PUBLISHER to release a terrible game and make tons of money on it buy selling copies of it to unsuspecting purchasers based on hype? why should the consumer have to take a $60 gamble and hope he doesn't get a shit game? 3. if the person didn't like it, does the PUBLISHER [b]deserve[/b] that sale? you act like losing a sale is the absolute endgame for any anti-piracy argument. you're actually saying that even if a person absolutely despised a completely horrendous piece of shit game, they are still obligated to buy it. why? what has the publisher/developer done to deserve that money other than hype up the game with advertising and interviews? please note that i replaced almost all occurrences of "developer" with "PUBLISHER" to remind you that the publisher is the one making the big money after release, and anti-piracy arguments always falsely stress that if you pirate games the developers will all go hungry and live in abandoned trainyards for the rest of their lives. [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32410510]If you're an idiot and didn't properly look into reviews or watch any post-release videos of the game itself, then yeah, you do. If you're intelligent enough to know how to pirate games, then you're intelligent enough to do proper research into a game you're interested in.[/QUOTE] so anyone that has ever used a game demo is an idiot? i'm an idiot for wanting to actually try the game rather than read what a huge corporation has to say about it? i know this'll be tough to believe but i don't find review sites very reliable. i disagree with 99% of major game reviewers, but even if i DID use reviews and post-launch videos to decide whether or not i'm spending $60 on a flop or not, why is that any better? if the post launch videos look like shit i won't buy it if the reviews are shit i won't buy it don't both those scenarios produce a lost sale? the only difference to piracy being that i never even got to experience the game and decide for myself.