Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32410572] 3. if the person didn't like it, does the PUBLISHER [b]deserve[/b] that sale? you act like losing a sale is the absolute endgame for any anti-piracy argument. you're actually saying that even if a person absolutely despised a completely horrendous piece of shit game, they are still obligated to buy it. why? what has the publisher/developer done to deserve that money other than hype up the game with advertising and interviews? [/QUOTE] this is terrible logic. it's like buying a new brand of chocolate that's out, eating the whole bar and going "JESUS THAT WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE" then trying to return the wrapper back to the shop. the manufacturer did a great job of advertising it to you, yet it's possibly not to your taste or you were stupid enough to buy it and the developer in this case deserves your money no matter what you did when you installed the game

[QUOTE=Bobie;32410739]this is terrible logic. it's like buying a new brand of chocolate that's out, eating the whole bar and going "JESUS THAT WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE" then trying to return the wrapper back to the shop. the manufacturer did a great job of advertising it to you, yet it's possibly not to your taste or you were stupid enough to buy it and the developer in this case deserves your money no matter what you did when you installed the game[/QUOTE] what? 1. you don't "return" the wrapper, you just throw it away and say "wow that was fucking disgusting" 2. when i eat a chocolate bar, they lose a product. when i pirate a game, they lose nothing, a copy is made. 3. so i'm morally obligated to purchase a terrible product because they advertised it well? duke nukem forever was quite possibly one of the worst games i've played all year, yet i should buy it because they did a good job of hyping it up? why [b]should[/b] i buy something that isn't my taste? you don't even provide a solid argument, you just call me stupid and state your opinion that i am obligated to purchase something i hated as soon as i dare install it, without any inkling of reasoning or argument behind it. literally all you've done is say that my logic is stupid then go on to say "JUST BECAUSE YOU HATE THE PRODUCT AND WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT DOESNT MEAN YOU HAVE ANY RIGHT NOT TO PURCHASE IT"

On the whole "Piracy is theft" argument: If you were to steal a physical copy of the game, the developer/publisher/etc loses money (Costs on production, materials, shipping, etc). If you [i][b]copy[/b][/i] the game, the developer/publisher/etc, while not gaining money, [i][b]doesn't lose anything at all.[/b][/i] Look at my steam list. Over 100 games. I would not have bought even half of those if I hadn't pirated them and tried them first. This isn't to say I'll buy every game I both pirate and enjoy, but they're not getting a sale either way so I don't see how it hurts anybody, financially or otherwise. To the people who call piracy "theft," "immoral," "wrong," etc, I say [b]fuck you, and kindly shut up.[/b] The logic in most, if not all of the 'Anti-Piracy' arguments in this thread is lacking to say the least.

I'm reading that a lot of people in here still don't know the difference between stealing and copying. I'm also reading a lot of this talk about what exactly is illegal when it comes to pirating and what isn't This is different depending on where you live. In most parts of Canada, you can not be charged for having a pirated movie on your hard drive. Just like you can not be charged if a police officer finds a rolled marijuana joint on your person. The reason you can not be charged is because you are not distributing this item. Now if you have the marijuana in dime bags then the police officer has the right to charge you under the offense of distributing narcotics. Simply because it is prepared in a state that marijuana is commonly sold in. This is similar to having a pirated copy of a movie. If you have it on your hard drive, in Canada, they can't charge you. How ever if they find you are indeed SEEDING this movie over a bit torrent program, then they are within their rights to charge you. Now that is where the line is drawn. Distribution. At least where i am from, distribution is the illegal part, not possession. Moral has nothing to do with the matter here, I'm speaking strictly in legal terms. Also, making a hard copy of this movie is illegal, this goes back to the marijuana analogy. You can be charged with the intent to distribute if you have a pirated movie on disc. Again, it differs depending on where you live.

[QUOTE=Hookerbot9000;32410955]On the whole "Piracy is theft" argument: If you were to steal a physical copy of the game, the developer loses money (Costs on production, materials, shipping, etc). If you [i][b]copy[/b][/i] the game, the developer, while not gaining money, doesn't [i][b]lose anything at all.[/b][/i] Look at my steam list. Over 100 games. I would not have bought even half of those if I hadn't pirated them and tried them first. This isn't to say I'll buy every game I both pirate and enjoy, but they're not getting a sale either way so I don't see how it hurts anybody, financially or otherwise. To the people who call piracy "theft," "immoral," "wrong," etc, I say [b]fuck you, and kindly shut up.[/b] The logic in most, if not all of the 'Anti-Piracy' arguments in this thread is lacking to say the least.[/QUOTE] Then kindly tell my why you think piracy isn't stealing hmm? And don't come to me with the age old "it doesn't hurt them so it isn't stealing" because that's just total bullocks and you (should) know it.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32411014]Then kindly tell my why you think piracy isn't stealing hmm? And don't come to me with the age old "it doesn't hurt them so it isn't stealing" because that's just total bullocks and you (should) know it.[/QUOTE] in piracy, a copy is made. there [b]may[/b] be a loss of a sale (and i'm being so generous for even daring to consider that), but no actual product, and thus manufacturing and distribution costs, is lost. in theft, you take something. a car needs to be manufactured, painted, distributed, etc.. so when you take it there really is money LOST because they spent money on that individual product and made nothing from it.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411062]in piracy, a copy is made. there [b]may[/b] be a loss of a sale (and i'm being so generous for even daring to consider that), but no actual product, and thus manufacturing and distribution costs, is lost. [/QUOTE] You're forgetting the loss of intellectual property. Certain nations do intellectual theft all the time. Would you say the stealing of designs on how to construct something is theft, or merely copying?

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411062]in piracy, a copy is made. there [b]may[/b] be a loss of a sale (and i'm being so generous for even daring to consider that), but no actual product, and thus manufacturing and distribution costs, is lost. in theft, you take something. a car needs to be manufactured, painted, distributed, etc.. so when you take it there really is money LOST because they spent money on that individual product and made nothing from it.[/QUOTE] I do not care about the companies "losing a sale" because I think that argument is total bullocks too. What I do care about is the protection of intellectual property (as I have said countless times already). Intellectual property HAS to be protected otherwise there is no reason for any company to produce anything. I'm not even against piracy, what I am against is people trying to justify it.

you may be 'copying' and 'not stealing' but the savings are passed onto those that are actually honest enough to buy the game- who get charged more as a result of projected sales not being met due to a huge piracy crowd emerging recently. you're not stealing from the company, but you're ruining it for the industry and those that buy games oh and its illegal

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32411014]Then kindly tell my why you think piracy isn't stealing hmm? And don't come to me with the age old "it doesn't hurt them so it isn't stealing" because that's just total bullocks and you (should) know it.[/QUOTE] I can't believe how thick some people are. I explained it in my post. Now I'll explain it like you're 5. If you offered your pretty red apple to little timmy for timmy's car toy, and little timmy were to take your apple and eat it without giving you his cool little car toy, he would have stolen your apple. But if little timmy somehow copied your apple and eaten the copy, you'd both have an apple and you would never have lost anything.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32411122]I do not care about the companies "losing a sale" because I think that argument is total bullocks too. What I do care about is the protection of intellectual property (as I have said countless times already). Intellectual property HAS to be protected otherwise there is no reason for any company to produce anything. I'm not even against piracy, what I am against is people trying to justify it.[/QUOTE] This is more of a morality issue than legal. To steal intellectual property is to take someones idea, and publication of idea and pass it off as your own as if you were the creator.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;32411204]This is more of a morality issue than legal. To steal intellectual property is to take someones idea, and publication of idea and pass it off as your own as if you were the creator.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about stealing intellectual property, I'm talking about circumventing the protecting of intellectual property AKA copyright. Which is highly illegal.

[QUOTE=Hookerbot9000;32411181]I can't believe how thick some people are. I explained it in my post. Now I'll explain it like you're 5. If you offered your pretty red apple to little timmy for timmy's car toy, and little timmy were to take your apple and eat it without giving you his cool little car toy, he would have stolen your apple. But if little timmy somehow copied your apple and eaten the copy, you'd both have an apple and you would never have lost anything.[/QUOTE] I thought we moved away from the "Losing a sale" argument a while ago and now are focusing on how pirating is a violation of intellectual property.

[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32411292]I thought we moved away from the "Losing a sale" argument a while ago and now are focusing on how pirating is a violation of intellectual property.[/QUOTE] I've been trying to do that but seeing as the "lost sale" thing not being a lost sale is their only point they have to keep getting back to it.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32411263]I'm not talking about stealing intellectual property, I'm talking about circumventing the protecting of intellectual property AKA copyright. Which is highly illegal.[/QUOTE] No argument there, however there is no difference between illegal and 'highly illegal". It either is or it isn't There is no doubt that any form of voiding a copyright agreement between consumer and creator is illegal. It still remains to be increasingly hard for authorities to pinpoint and charge people with. The reason why it runs rampant, along with the fact that the internet is in a constant state of uncontrollable anarchy. In short, there are more important things out there holding the attention of authorities. Still it doesn't negate the legality of copyright. [QUOTE=Bobie;32411124]you may be 'copying' and 'not stealing' but the savings are passed onto those that are actually honest enough to buy the game- who get charged more as a result of projected sales not being met due to a huge piracy crowd emerging recently. you're not stealing from the company, but you're ruining it for the industry and those that buy games [/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure the rising price of games in the industry was introduced for consoles, while most pc only games these days are 10-20 dollars less. So no, 'piracy' has not forced the industry to increase prices.

I pirate because I can. I like many pirates do not care that it is illegal and that people may lose money, job, etc over it. Nothing will stop piracy because people like free stuff, whether it is morally correct or not is irrelevant. If I make something I give it away for free, being a pirate does not make you a bad person.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32411346]I've been trying to do that but seeing as the "lost sale" thing not being a lost sale is their only point they have to keep getting back to it.[/QUOTE] the fact is, it may be copying as opposed to stealing but it's still taking something that isn't rightfully yours until you've bought it- and that the years that go into the production of an album or a game totally gets shat on because you decide to pirate within an instant its morally a horrible thing to do [QUOTE=Chryseus;32411408]I pirate because I can. I like many pirates do not care that it is illegal and that people may lose money, job, etc over it. Nothing will stop piracy because people like free stuff, whether it is morally correct or not is irrelevant. If I make something I give it away for free, being a pirate does not make you a bad person.[/QUOTE] wow.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;32411408]I pirate because I can. I like many pirates do not care that it is illegal and that people may lose money, job, etc over it. Nothing will stop piracy because people like free stuff, whether it is morally correct or not is irrelevant. If I make something I give it away for free, being a pirate does not make you a bad person.[/QUOTE] no, coming from a pirate i hope it's within my rights to tell you that you are a terrible pirate and a terrible person. [b]you[/b] are the kind of person that is ruining the industry and [b]you[/b] are the kind of childish person that gives the people in this thread arguing against piracy their cannon fodder. you just go on, gung ho, fuck the establishment pretending you're a rebel because you can get games for free. you are everything wrong with piracy. [QUOTE=DiBBs27;32411204]This is more of a morality issue than legal. To steal intellectual property is to take someones idea, and publication of idea and pass it off as your own as if you were the creator.[/QUOTE] thank you for being the only person to understand what the theft of intellectual property is, seriously these people needed to hear that. [QUOTE=Bobie;32411124]you may be 'copying' and 'not stealing' but the savings are passed onto those that are actually honest enough to buy the game- who get charged more as a result of projected sales not being met due to a huge piracy crowd emerging recently. you're not stealing from the company, but you're ruining it for the industry and those that buy games oh and its illegal[/QUOTE] as i said before, [b]no[/b] if you didn't like the game, the company doesn't deserve the money. i completely agree however that if you enjoy a game you pirated, you are completely obligated to pay for it asap "oh and its illegal" haha wow thats really cute

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411802] "oh and its illegal" haha wow thats really cute[/QUOTE] This is why the media shouldn't be able to control the government, because I'm sure no-one cared about protecting something that can be infinitely replicated until someone said "oh but we'll make more money that way."

[QUOTE=Kopimi;32411802] you are everything wrong with piracy. [/QUOTE] At least I don't try to come up with arguments defending what I do.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;32411964]At least I don't try to come up with arguments defending what I do.[/QUOTE] this is a debate man, not a confessional. if you want to pirate forever and have no reason for it other than 'i want to' then this is not the place to be

[QUOTE=Chryseus;32411964]At least I don't try to come up with arguments defending what I do.[/QUOTE] that's because i have an actual argument to defend myself you just pirate "eh because i can lolxD" i pirate essentially for game demos in the end i still support developers because i'm not an edgy child

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32409443]You pay taxes to be allowed to listen to the radio FYI.[/QUOTE] No you don't. (Except NPR) Stations make their money from ad revenue. The FCC is funded entirely by broadcast licenses covered by the stations themselves, so other than NPR, none of your taxes go to radio. And even NPR gets most of it's money from pledge drives, grants, and programming fees.

I've rarely ever pirated anything. I pirated Sweeney Todd - Demon Barber of Fleet Street for the lulz, and I've been desperately trying to get my hands on WinZip for mac because i couldn't dream of giving 30€ for a product like that. I have very mixed feelings about piracy. I think it is basically wrong, but i think it's cool that some people condone pirating their own work for awareness. I like the idea of play-it-like-it-buy-it, but fuck if 80% of those claiming to do that just say "fuck it" and keep the pirated copy.

Piracy.. Oh boy.. Well, while I do not deny that piracy does make some developers, and companies lose a fraction of sales, I do not agree that the money that they are potentially losing is worth crying about like they do. Especially considering how large some of these companies are, and their average profit isn't something to scoff at either. I pirate games as a demo of sorts, but at the same time, there are games I would rather not pirate because I enjoy the developer's work. I do not think piracy is not an evil or moral problem like others portray it, and I consider it to be helpful to the general market under the right conditions. My piracy used to be a lot more prominent, but after a while because of the free games I originally had, when a sequel would come out I would buy it because I thought the developer had done a good job on the predecessor enough to support them this time. To me, they earn a future, potential customer. The 'war on piracy' developers are waging is simply a waste of money, you cannot stop it. And even if you do stop it with DRM, at what cost? A few of my games I had MORE trouble with a legitimate copy than when I was testing it on a pirated copy all because of the DRM. In fact, I don't think I've ever had a problem with a pirated copy. There is no doubt that DRM harasses the legitimate customer more than it does a pirate. If you want to minimize piracy, make a good product, or help lower the price for games as a whole to those who pirate because they cannot afford it. But you cannot abolish it like companies are trying to do, it is a fight they cannot win. Even if a game is perfect, a good deal, that doesn't mean it will be free of pirates either. But hey, you can't expect a flawless business all the time. Better to minimize it as much as possible than to border harassing the legitimate customer because you're worried about lost sales.

I think making the legitimate product better than the pirated version is the only really good way to deter piracy. Having restrictive DRM makes people more inclined to get the free version without it, while having a service that adds to the game, like Steam makes people more likely to buy it. I don't think I've ever pirated a game that's been offered on Steam.

To me, piracy is essential. It's the most popular and fastest distibution method in the world. And I won't ever pay 1$ for a song. I pirate the whole album, and if it's real good, buy a real life copy of it (fuck downloadable versions, i like plastic, ink and paper) from it's author.

If the software that I legaly bought is treating me like a fucking criminal I'm not going to use it, I'll pirate it instead, I.E ubisoft DRM, spore DRM, etc... [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=lapsus_;32414715]To me, piracy is essential. It's the most popular and fastest distibution method in the world. And I won't ever pay 1$ for a song. I pirate the whole album, and if it's real good, buy a real life copy of it (fuck downloadable versions, i like plastic, ink and paper) from it's author.[/QUOTE] Agree'd I seem to be the only person I know who has actual collections of CD's and records.

[QUOTE=danelo;32377119]No, it is definately stealing. You are taking something for FREE that is supposed to cost money, whatever way you try to spin it by saying it's copying in the end it is still stealing.[/QUOTE] Legal definition of Stealing/Larceny [quote=http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com]The unauthorized taking and removal of the Personal Property of another by an individual who intends to permanently deprive the owner of it; a crime against the right of possession.[/quote] So no, its not [B]STEALING[/B]

if i want a game but don't want it enough to pay money for it i'll pirate it, then if i enjoy it i may change my mind, i hacked minecraft, thought it was good, bought an account for me and my friend