Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32424233]Oh god this again? -Not stolen, copied -Not ambigous, quite clear: haven't played it? Don't know what it's like. -Avoidance of disappointment? More like avoiding paying people who don't deserve it. I don't throw money around like a madman, my money is mine and I worked hard to get it. Maybe it will make more sense to you in point form.[/QUOTE] -Say someone has an infinite amount of food, but instead of giving it away they are selling it. You decide this is unfair and take it upon yourself to steal some. He's not missing it, so obviously you haven't done anything wrong, right? -I have not played Deus Ex HR, I have also not played Big Rigs, therefore I have no idea if either one is better than the other. -They have completed their end of the bargain and provided you with the game. Their bargain was not to provide you with a good game but to provide you with the game in the first place. If you want to not give money to people who do not deserve it, do not play the game at all.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32424233]Oh god this again? [B]-Not stolen, copied[/B] False -Not ambigous, quite clear: haven't played it? Don't know what it's like. -Avoidance of disappointment? More like avoiding paying people who don't deserve it. I don't throw money around like a madman, my money is mine and I worked hard to get it. Maybe it will make more sense to you in point form.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32424233]Oh god this again? -Not stolen, copied -Not ambigous, quite clear: haven't played it? Don't know what it's like. -Avoidance of disappointment? More like avoiding paying people who don't deserve it. I don't throw money around like a madman, my money is mine and I worked hard to get it. Maybe it will make more sense to you in point form.[/QUOTE] -Stolen -"shit man I just played this pirated copy of GTA 4 but i can't stop getting drunk and falling over this game sucks shit" -Yeah man, stick it to those damned greedy programmers who've spent some years working on their game

How about fair use? Your using a movie for an educational purpose, would that cunt as piracy if you download it off a torrent site? Same with music anf applications.

The programmers were ALREADY PAID when the game was made. The musicians were ALREADY PAID when the album was released. The actors were ALREADY PAID when the movie was released. Let's move the discussion into a different zone other than someone being out of the job. Unemployment is at its highest, so who cares about a measly cameraman.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32428680]The programmers were ALREADY PAID when the game was made. The musicians were ALREADY PAID when the album was released. The actors were ALREADY PAID when the movie was released. Let's move the discussion into a different zone other than someone being out of the job. Unemployment is at its highest, so who cares about a measly cameraman.[/QUOTE] And where's the money coming from?

[QUOTE=Swebonny;32428710]And where's the money coming from?[/QUOTE] They don't need $200 million just to make a good movie. Likewise with the other industries.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32428680]The programmers were ALREADY PAID when the game was made. The musicians were ALREADY PAID when the album was released. The actors were ALREADY PAID when the movie was released. Let's move the discussion into a different zone other than someone being out of the job. Unemployment is at its highest, so who cares about a measly cameraman.[/QUOTE] Maybe for large companies like EA and Activision but most other companies rely on the product making a profit. Not to mention Indie developers.

[QUOTE=Themage;32430228]Maybe for large companies like EA and Activision but most other companies rely on the product making a profit. Not to mention Indie developers.[/QUOTE] Well, they continue to cry about piracy and how it loses money, and then at the same time they continue to pump out title after title, it seems like hypocrisy if you ask me. I imagine piracy would in theory hurt smaller developers, but they work somewhat like the large companies and developers too. If piracy was hurting them, they'd be making fewer titles at a time, but when you're a smaller company who in turn makes smaller games, usually all those are hit-and-miss anyway.

I may be horrendously late but considering it was posted (the link) 10 days ago I'm hoping not late. The Devs of a game released a "Pirate" version in the sense they re-created their own game with a pirate theme (pirate hats and the like) and uploaded it to a torrenting website. They admin they understand people are likely to torrent their game so why not make a specific pirate themed one? They've even said sales haven't taken a turn for the worse but in fact the opposite, the publicity generated from it and the overall goodwill feel surrounding the game has in fact generated revenue (or so they believe/tell us). Maybe some points I am wrong on but it's a general sum-up of what I (think I) read. [url]http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/09/linux-game-devs-upload-their-own-game.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Clunj;32431572]I may be horrendously late but considering it was posted (the link) 10 days ago I'm hoping not late. The Devs of a game released a "Pirate" version in the sense they re-created their own game with a pirate theme (pirate hats and the like) and uploaded it to a torrenting website. They admin they understand people are likely to torrent their game so why not make a specific pirate themed one? They've even said sales haven't taken a turn for the worse but in fact the opposite, the publicity generated from it and the overall goodwill feel surrounding the game has in fact generated revenue (or so they believe/tell us). Maybe some points I am wrong on but it's a general sum-up of what I (think I) read. [url]http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/09/linux-game-devs-upload-their-own-game.html[/url][/QUOTE] it's only so long until the 'PIRATE MY GAME' gimmick wears off though

Please stop making your own definition of "stolen". Taking something from someone without their permission is stealing. Stop making bullshit definitions to justify yourself.

Download a 50-60 dollar game that someone is sharing Get sued thousands of dollars Makes sense.

Wierd thing. Here in Sweden it is allowed to download shared software. But it is illegal to upload :o So not "to break the law" we aren't allowed to seed once we have downloaded, neither upload copyrighted material to a site. I think it was that way. People've been talking about it. But I'm still [b]CON[/b] pirating

[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;32437506]Download a 50-60 dollar game that someone is sharing Get sued thousands of dollars Makes sense.[/QUOTE] It does. It stops people from pirating in the first place. It's called a deterrent

[QUOTE=Greenen72;32438084]It does. It stops people from pirating in the first place. It's called a deterrent[/QUOTE] I see where you're coming from I just find the punishment to be very fucked up when comparing to the crime.

[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;32438103]I see where you're coming from I just find the punishment to be very fucked up when comparing to the crime.[/QUOTE] If you find the punishment fucked up then don't pirate.

[QUOTE=Chicken_Chaser;32438103]I see where you're coming from I just find the punishment to be very fucked up when comparing to the crime.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but if we pull a number out of my ass like 1% of people who pirate are prosecuted for it, and it's basically a choice between Not Pirate: $50, Pirate: $60 if caught or $0 if not, then everyone's going to pirate it. [editline]23rd September 2011[/editline] The major bullshit comes in when you get a case like that one girl getting charged some ungodly amount in the millions (but almost certainly less), then it's more a case of "Fit the punishment to the crime" than deterring someone. It's amazing how much water the argument "We need to make up all our money lost from these 10 pirated songs from this single girl" will hold in court, even if phrased differently

[QUOTE=AK'z;32428680]The programmers were ALREADY PAID when the game was made. The musicians were ALREADY PAID when the album was released. The actors were ALREADY PAID when the movie was released. Let's move the discussion into a different zone other than someone being out of the job. Unemployment is at its highest, so who cares about a measly cameraman.[/QUOTE] If a game can't sell as well as what was hoped for then developers/publishers/studios won't pay those workers as much next time.

[QUOTE=Valnar;32438153]If you find the punishment fucked up then don't pirate.[/QUOTE] I don't. Still a shit punishment for that unlucky soul regardless. "Durr shouldnt have pirated your fault" is dumb.

[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32438423]If a game can't sell as well as what was hoped for then developers/publishers/studios won't pay those workers as much next time.[/QUOTE] Well the gaming industry is different. People these days care more about how good it looks rather than how it plays. I really doubt as much time is spent on gameplay as it is on graphics.

Piracy in my eyes is only acceptable if there is no proper demo and you do it just to test it and then buy it, if you lost your original disc/whatever and can't find it anymore (because technically you already bought it), and if you can't buy the game anywhere else anymore.

I wanted to sort of clean up my pirating ways now that I'm working, signed up for Spotify premium and actually started buying major game releases.

I must post this since it may be quite interesting. Over 90% of Estonian population from the age of 15 - 30 are pirating. 3% Said that they had pirated in the past, but have stopped now. [url]http://www.postimees.ee/565242/uurimus-ule-90-protsendi-eesti-noortest-tegeleb-internetipiraatlusega/[/url]

[QUOTE=Swebonny;32424290]I guess it's alright if you're only going to "test" the game. But if you fully finish it and then have no intentions to pay the developers, then you're an ass.[/QUOTE]Oh by all means, I agree, and ever since I've actually had money to spend on games, this is how I've done it. I don't finish games I don't like... to be honest, for games that have "levels" I try the first few levels and try to get a grasp on gameplay. For games that are more open, I give it a few hours to sink in and see how much I like it. Either way, I buy games that I like and delete those I don't. It really is that simple. Now, what's got me puzzled is first, people were saying that pirates are always a potential loss of income for devs. Then people said "what about poor people who have no money? They have nothing to give and thus devs lose nothing" so the argument somehow magically changed to "If you don't pay, you don't play period". You know, my dad wanted to get a new Web Framework to toy around with a few days ago but it cost over $500. He emailed the guy and told him that on his disability pension, $500 was just too much, and he wanted to know if he could get it for less. The guy gave it to my dad FOR FREE, with the only condition being that if he developed anything handy, he would like to be able to advertise it. My dad intended to make his product open to the public anyway, so he agreed. My dad could have just downloaded this framework considering he has very little money, and the guy knew it, so by extending good will to an underprivileged man, he may get something in the future (as opposed to nothing). Even if my dad just downloaded it though, the free press he would have recieved if his product was any good would have probably made it worth it right there (my dad is a talkative guy with the other programmers in the area heh). I guess what I'm saying is, this particular developer had nothing to lose and everything to gain here, just like any developer dealing with those who are simply too poor to afford [B]A COPY[/B] of their products. Obviously this isn't the same as giving away free physical items, where there is a real cost attached... but copies are not the same. And let me reiterate to the idiots out there, [B]COPYING =/= STEALING[/B]. Have any of you not read an EULA for a digital download? You're buying a license, not a physical game, not even a copy. The license is what makes it legal to operate the software, not the copy. So yes, while having in your possession a copy you are not licensed to run may be wrong, depending on your interpretation of the circumstances... the actual act of copying is NOT wrong. Once again, copying is not inherently wrong, and it most certainly is not automatically stealing. You need to understand this before you can ever debate this topic with any accuracy. [QUOTE=Greenen72;32426309]-Stolen -"shit man I just played this pirated copy of GTA 4 but i can't stop getting drunk and falling over this game sucks shit" -Yeah man, stick it to those damned greedy programmers who've spent some years working on their game[/QUOTE] Protip: read my other posts, you'll realize your interpretation is a little more black and white than necessary. That goes for anyone just walking into the debate on that particular post of mine.

Serious shit gets stolen everyday, you should be lucky people are stealing movies and music made by already filthry rich people instead of coming in your house stealing your t.v. and butt virginity.

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32444616] And let me reiterate to the idiots out there, [B]COPYING =/= STEALING[/B]. Have any of you not read an EULA for a digital download? You're buying a license, not a physical game, not even a copy. The license is what makes it legal to operate the software, not the copy. So yes, while having in your possession a copy you are not licensed to run may be wrong, depending on your interpretation of the circumstances... the actual act of copying is NOT wrong. Once again, copying is not inherently wrong, and it most certainly is not automatically stealing. You need to understand this before you can ever debate this topic with any accuracy. [/QUOTE] I don't think anyone assumes that someone is just copying something and then never intending to use it. Many times, you are not even licenced to make copies let alone distribute them.

If taking potential sales is a crime, then are bad reviews piracy?

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32451513]If taking potential sales is a crime, then are bad reviews piracy?[/QUOTE] Well, bad reviews haven't slowed to tide to see large feature movies *cough*Transformers*cough*.

[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy16;32451513]If taking potential sales is a crime, then are bad reviews piracy?[/QUOTE] Please, learn what piracy is before posting. Piracy is NOT a definition for lost sales and is not treated as such. Piracy is copyright infringement and more specifically infringement on the right of distribution and reproduction of a product. The only reason the term "lost potential sales" is thrown around is because it can provide a metric of how much [B]potential[/B] revenue a company has lost due to piracy. How accurate those statistics are is a different matter however.