Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

If I legally own a game, I'll happily download a crack or pirate copy - take Civ 4, I own the game legally - it's on my shelf, why should I have to keep the disk in the drive to play it? I have a few of my old games, where the disks have broken and they are not in production anymore, too, such as the old Wheel of Time game, and Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 (amazing games). I can produce the disks, but they are scratched and won't install, so I did download it. I wouldn't pirate for any other reason though - only if I legally own it already. I've been tempted to demo games with it, though. Would get rid of the horrific mistake that was Brink and a few others.

[QUOTE=danelo;32377119]No, it is definately stealing. You are taking something for FREE that is supposed to cost money, whatever way you try to spin it by saying it's copying in the end it is still stealing.[/QUOTE] No no, it's not. If you steal something, the original item is lost. If you copy something, the original item is still there.

[QUOTE=Mr. N;32378384]I see piracy excusable if your demoing the game to see whether or not it is worth a buy or it runs on your computer, or to bypass DRM and whatnot, which is a pain.[/QUOTE] I never liked the argument that you're just 'trying' it. Pardon me making the connection, but I compare it to cars. Some dealerships let you test drive the car, to see if you like it. Some don't, but you don't go to the dealership and take a car anyway just to 'try it out'. Obviously it's an imperfect relation but you get my point.

[QUOTE=dajoh;32379212]No no, it's not. If you steal something, the original item is lost. If you copy something, the original item is still there.[/QUOTE] I'm all for piracy but we all know this is ridiculous. You are taking something that is not rightfully yours, even if they don't 'lose' anything you are still stealing copyrighted material.

On the whole I disagree with Piracy (Apart from certain cases: e.g. pirating the TF2 Beta only to get the source film maker). But neither do I believe that the government should intervene. The truth is, piracy will never disappear - no matter how much money you throw at it - due to it's diversity and the fact that people will do anything to save themselves some cash.

[QUOTE=Tigster;32379339]I never liked the argument that you're just 'trying' it. Pardon me making the connection, but I compare it to cars. Some dealerships let you test drive the car, to see if you like it. Some don't, but you don't go to the dealership and take a car anyway just to 'try it out'. Obviously it's an imperfect relation but you get my point.[/QUOTE] But you CAN go to a friend's place and maybe try out their car to see how it feels. It's not like piracy is just going up and carjacking someone. I don't support piracy, but arguing that it is the EXACT definition of stealing is dumb.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;32378568]If I legally own a game, I'll happily download a crack or pirate copy - take Civ 4, I own the game legally - it's on my shelf, why should I have to keep the disk in the drive to play it? I have a few of my old games, where the disks have broken and they are not in production anymore, too, such as the old Wheel of Time game, and Dungeon Keeper 1 and 2 (amazing games). I can produce the disks, but they are scratched and won't install, so I did download it. I wouldn't pirate for any other reason though - only if I legally own it already. I've been tempted to demo games with it, though. Would get rid of the horrific mistake that was Brink and a few others.[/QUOTE] Problem with this is that you'd have to use a torrent client that doesn't upload at all, because while downloading is illegal since you own the rights to use the product, distributing it is fencing. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Chilblain;32379540]But you CAN go to a friend's place and maybe try out their car to see how it feels.[/QUOTE] And you CAN go to a friends house and try out that game. Your point?

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32379558]And you CAN go to a friends house and try out that game. Your point?[/QUOTE] And where's your point? My point is that there is a way to test out stuff fully before buying it, and this is just kinda filler.

Piracy is a wonderful thing. Sharing information with people all over the world who might not get that info otherwise is still a cool thing to me.

I was recently on the fence about Dead Island, and I probably wouldn't have bought it given the chance of trying it out. So I pirated it and I love it and now I'm going to buy it in the inevitable Steam sales, so really they made a sale.

Often, its not the devs fault for the DRM, its the publishers.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32379558]Problem with this is that you'd have to use a torrent client that doesn't upload at all, because while downloading is illegal since you own the rights to use the product, distributing it is fencing. [/QUOTE] I'll admit - I did leech only, I didn't seed. Makes me feel a bit dirty, being a jerk as well as pirating it (well, is it pirating if I own the license in the form of the disk?), but I suppose that I balance it karma-wise by going out of the way to seed legal linux distros and the like.

[QUOTE=Map in a box;32379877]Often, its not the devs fault for the DRM, its the publishers.[/QUOTE] I must be really uninformed but can you elaborate on that? Surely the developers don't want their hard work going out there for free.

stealing is taking one's possessions. This is a [b]copy[/b] of it. You're not taking it from the creators. Therefore I'm alright with it.

"Actually piracy is more like making an exact replica of the game outside the store and taking it with you. That game goes untouched, yet the customer now owns it. While there was no cost on the stores part for the creation of that supply, there is also no profit, and now less of a demand. With no demand, there will be an over-saturation of product with no return for it. the Store who bought and sells the product looses money, the developers who produced the product lose money. You're essentially taking revenue from other people. If 1 person did it, barely any harm at all. However the More people think "its just one, theres no harm in doing it" the more the numbers add up. This is of course assuming that that many people WILL do that. The worst thing you can do is assume your actions don't have an affect on others." Not my quote.

[QUOTE=Pridit;32379912]I must be really uninformed but can you elaborate on that? Surely the developers don't want their hard work going out there for free.[/QUOTE] Publishers make most of the money from the games - they often ride roughshod over good devs to try and make money. Think of it like record companies, the artists are normally really nice people, but the record corporation has to make money, and does it by trying to make piracy as hard as possible, shoving DRM on, as they think that it's more effective than setting an album at a reasonable price, where people are more likely to buy it.

Honestly for me pirating is a God-sent for people as who the fuck spends cash on about 150 albums, that would be in the hundreds/thousands price range, not mentioning the fact many of us don't have jobs and are still in school.

I would say that if you had a state which owns all property, you could put all games/movies/books/etc online and allow people to download anything for free. The state in question could then give out money/land/etc to the person/s whom created said game/movie/book dependent on how widely used it is. In such a situation there would no longer be a need for piracy as your taxes would effectively pay for it.

Truly, I don't care if piracy is illegal, or legal. I do it to fuck with the man, and to get some good tunes on my iPod. I don't care if politicians say it's, quote, "Immoral" and "Stealing". I don't give a shit about what they say. It's my choice as a human being and I do it. Big Government shouldn't have a say in that.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;32379967]Publishers make most of the money from the games - they often ride roughshod over good devs to try and make money. Think of it like record companies, the artists are normally really nice people, but the record corporation has to make money, and does it by trying to make piracy as hard as possible, shoving DRM on, as they think that it's more effective than setting an album at a reasonable price, where people are more likely to buy it.[/QUOTE] They receive most of the money because they are primarily the ones funding the development of the game. Especially with in house development studios.

I don't see how people can justify this as being perfectly fine to do. You're still stealing however way you look at it. Mostly aimed at people who are arrogant and just pirate constantly purely to gain free shit.

I have very mixed feelings about pirating. There are many games and many software companies that I would never dream of pirating from out of appreciation for the work they have done. Many games out there that are well worth their asking price. However there are also a lot of games that really aren't worth it. If you ask me, pirating will become less of an issue as games incorporate more online aspects to them. A lot of pirated games have limited online playability which can really limit a game.

[QUOTE=5killer;32380062]They receive most of the money because they are primarily the ones funding the development of the game. Especially with in house development studios.[/QUOTE] That's true. Still, if I buy the game and keep it for personal use, I feel that I can download a crack. I'm not redistributing it (if I torrent, I'll leech only, yes it's a jerk move, sorry) and thus no harm is done to anyone. I'm just bypassing something that I, as a lawful consumer/customer, should not have to deal with.

Information should be free anyway.

[QUOTE=Pridit;32380071]I don't see how people can justify this as being perfectly fine to do. You're still stealing however way you look at it. Mostly aimed at people who are arrogant and just pirate constantly purely to gain free shit.[/QUOTE] You have you're own opinions, I have mine. I pirate to fuck with the man, you stick with big government and choose to agree to their terms and their social terms of what's good and bad. I like piracy since it offers freedom, it means you don't have to pay the big corporations for an album. This in my opinion, is an idea for personal economic freedom.

I dont have the money to blast on CS5 id rather download it, but If I went into business I would save up and do everything I make legit.

[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;32379927]"Actually piracy is more like making an exact replica of the game outside the store and taking it with you. That game goes untouched, yet the customer now owns it. While there was no cost on the stores part for the creation of that supply, there is also no profit, and now less of a demand. With no demand, there will be an over-saturation of product with no return for it. the Store who bought and sells the product looses money, the developers who produced the product lose money. You're essentially taking revenue from other people. If 1 person did it, barely any harm at all. However the More people think "its just one, theres no harm in doing it" the more the numbers add up. This is of course assuming that that many people WILL do that. The worst thing you can do is assume your actions don't have an affect on others." Not my quote.[/QUOTE] While the statement that it isn't theft but rather copying and therefore not harmfull is false, this is false as well, it is unfair to assume any downloaded copy results in a lost sale as many would rather just not get that game if they couldn't pirate it. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=ButtsexV3;32380342]Information should be free anyway.[/QUOTE] Then how would you want the creators to be compensated for their time spent making it?

When I was a kid I used to pirate a lot of games. Most of my games were pirated. The main reason was because I couldn't buy it as I didn't have the money. Now I've bought all the games I've ever pirated, even though some I don't even play. I felt that it was a fair move. Just a delayed payment you could say. If I'm a game developer working years and years on a game, I'd love to earn some money from it. Although I wouldn't support fining a single person several hundred thousands just because he happened to pirate it. It would be so much reasonable to fine a person the amount he has downloaded for. But I guess those huge fines serves as scare tactics.

[QUOTE=Pridit;32380071]I don't see how people can justify this as being perfectly fine to do. You're still stealing however way you look at it. Mostly aimed at people who are arrogant and just pirate constantly purely to gain free shit.[/QUOTE] I would not try and justify piracy at all, but the simple fact is that I do not have €300 to spend on MS Office and that I simply cannot work without it. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Swebonny;32380550]When I was a kid I used to pirate a lot of games. Most of my games were pirated. The main reason was because I couldn't buy it as I didn't have the money. Now I've bought all the games I've ever pirated, even though some I don't even play. I felt that it was a fair move. Just a delayed payment you could say. If I'm a game developer working years and years on a game, I'd love to earn some money from it. Although I wouldn't support fining a single person several hundred thousands just because he happened to pirate it. It would be so much reasonable to fine a person the amount he has downloaded for. But I guess those huge fines serves as scare tactics.[/QUOTE] I blame steam for freeing me of piracy (of games mostly, I do have a illegitimate copy of MS office but that's just because MS can go suck a dick and remove the installation limit from my legit copy without me calling them).

[QUOTE=ShadoWxAssassiN;32380355]You have you're own opinions, I have mine. I pirate to fuck with the man, you stick with big government and choose to agree to their terms and their social terms of what's good and bad. I like piracy since it offers freedom, it means you don't have to pay the big corporations for an album. This in my opinion, is an idea for personal economic freedom.[/QUOTE] I believe in actually supporting artists/developers rather than "fuck with the man" I'm not agreeing to anyone's terms, if I decide I like either a game or song I decide to purchase it rather than pirating it. Not supporting artists/developers purely because big corporations get a slice doesn't mean it's right/you should do it.