Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

I pirated games until I was old enough to have a job, and then I started buying them. What was I going to do? I literally didn't have money and my parents weren't buying games so I did what I had to do. Saying "WELL IF YOU DONT HAVE MONEY YOU DONT GET TO PLAY LOL" doesn't really cut it, because when I was a kid Free-To-Play didn't exist, games cost a lot more than they do now (some new games retailed as high as $80 *cough*STARCRAFT*cough*) and computers cost a lot more too. Now you can go to Ultimatum Games or Intkeys.com and pick up brand new titles for like $30. It's ridiculous. There is also a growing number of f2p games that are quite good, and I don't mind putting a bit of money on them once in awhile to improve my experience. On the rare occasion I do download a game now, it is legitimately to try it. If I don't like it I delete it and move on. If I do I purchase it. What some of you derps are proposing is synonymous with walking into a car dealership and buying a car you know nothing about. Sure, $60 isn't as much of an investment as $20k+, but it's still my money and I want to test drive that fucker before I buy it.

[QUOTE=Irockz;32379926]stealing is taking one's possessions. This is a [b]copy[/b] of it. You're not taking it from the creators. Therefore I'm alright with it.[/QUOTE] Stealing has nothing to do with possessions. Any definition will use the word property, which is extended to intellectual property.

I feel pretty well if I'm pirating a game with Ubisoft DRM. :v:

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32383575]I pirated games until I was old enough to have a job, and then I started buying them. What was I going to do? I literally didn't have money and my parents weren't buying games so I did what I had to do. Saying "WELL IF YOU DONT HAVE MONEY YOU DONT GET TO PLAY LOL" doesn't really cut it, because when I was a kid Free-To-Play didn't exist, games cost a lot more than they do now (some new games retailed as high as $80 *cough*STARCRAFT*cough*) and computers cost a lot more too. Now you can go to Ultimatum Games or Intkeys.com and pick up brand new titles for like $30. It's ridiculous. There is also a growing number of f2p games that are quite good, and I don't mind putting a bit of money on them once in awhile to improve my experience. On the rare occasion I do download a game now, it is legitimately to try it. If I don't like it I delete it and move on. If I do I purchase it. What some of you derps are proposing is synonymous with walking into a car dealership and buying a car you know nothing about. Sure, $60 isn't as much of an investment as $20k+, but it's still my money and I want to test drive that fucker before I buy it.[/QUOTE] What the fuck. How can you possibly justify pirating something due to lack of money? Do you just steal everything you want if you don't have the money for it?

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32383575]I pirated games until I was old enough to have a job, and then I started buying them. What was I going to do? I literally didn't have money and my parents weren't buying games so I did what I had to do. Saying "WELL IF YOU DONT HAVE MONEY YOU DONT GET TO PLAY LOL" doesn't really cut it, because when I was a kid Free-To-Play didn't exist, games cost a lot more than they do now (some new games retailed as high as $80 *cough*STARCRAFT*cough*) and computers cost a lot more too. Now you can go to Ultimatum Games or Intkeys.com and pick up brand new titles for like $30. It's ridiculous. There is also a growing number of f2p games that are quite good, and I don't mind putting a bit of money on them once in awhile to improve my experience. On the rare occasion I do download a game now, it is legitimately to try it. If I don't like it I delete it and move on. If I do I purchase it. What some of you derps are proposing is synonymous with walking into a car dealership and buying a car you know nothing about. Sure, $60 isn't as much of an investment as $20k+, but it's still my money and I want to test drive that fucker before I buy it.[/QUOTE] When I was a kid, my parents taught me that stealing is bad, and apparently I was the only one who stuck to those values when I started to use the internet. You did not have the money at that time, so you should not have been able to play the games. It's too bad that you can't play games because you're poor. "You don't have money you don't get to play lol" DOES cut it, I'm sorry. You don't just get shit for free if you can't afford it. The world would be an even worse place if that was true.

Here we go, I'll put this debate to rest: Steal: to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force. Nowhere in the definition of "steal" do I see any mention of the taking of physical property, nor do I see any mention of the replaceable nature of the object being stolen. Let's take a look at the word "take" to see what that means exactly. Take: to get into one's hold or possession by voluntary action; to get into one's hands, possession, control, etc., by force or artifice; to seize or capture. I don't see how you could possibly try to justify piracy.

[QUOTE=lulzbocksV2;32383786]Here we go, I'll put this debate to rest: Steal: to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force. Nowhere in the definition of "steal" do I see any mention of the taking of physical property, nor do I see any mention of the replaceable nature of the object being stolen. Let's take a look at the word "take" to see what that means exactly. Take: to get into one's hold or possession by voluntary action; to get into one's hands, possession, control, etc., by force or artifice; to seize or capture. I don't see how you could possibly try to justify piracy.[/QUOTE] The only difference between piracy and stealing from the store is that when you steal from a store, you are taking something that a customer could have put in their own shopping cart. That's it. "but piracy isn't the same :CC!! I want to have entertainment without spending money!"

for games, there's no excuse to pirate. you can just grab a used copy off of amazon a week or 2 after release for around half the price. for some programs that the companies charge crazy prices for, like flash and photoshop which are upwards of five thousand dollars for an end user, they shouldn't have that crazy pricing, and i consider it ok to pirate those programs, but I dont because i don't have use for it. i have downloaded cartoons that box sets of episodes haven't been released for though, but i plan on buying the box sets for them when they come out.

Ignoring the stealing or not argument, it's still something you shouldn't do. No excuses. Also, while piracy happens, a very low amount of people would actually buy the game if pirating was impossible (an indie game that added anti-piracy measures to its game found that about one in ten thousand bought it when piracy was made more difficult).

to be honest, I think they should only punish people for uploading and not downloading, its like I walk into a store, I steal a piece of candy, then I walk out and give that piece of candy to you, why should you be punished for eating it, simple as that

[Url=http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy]Excellent video on Piracy[/url] Covers both sides of the argument well

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;32383230]This is what I think of game piracy. Throw all this "omg its stealing/not stealing" crap out of the window, firstly. If you pirate games, you're not taking away something from potential customers, you're just copying an existing game. Most of the time, piracy isn't large enough to completely throw a game's sales out the window. This is what it all boils down to: If you're not going to pay for the product, [B]you do not get to have it.[/B] It doesn't matter if you're poor or your mommy and daddy won't buy you expensive games. If you don't have the money, you don't get the game. Simple. Who cares if you "can't experience the game" or "omg i'll buy it later," you don't get to have the game because you did not pay for it. According to me, ther is absolutely no justification for piracy at all. Of course people are still going to pirate no matter what, but in the end all the pirates I've encountered are just a bunch of white middle class teenagers that are too "poor" to buy games.[/QUOTE] The way I see it, the only situation in which piracy is justified is when the game is physically impossible to get otherwise. Like if the game isn't sold in your area and there's absolutely no way to get it shipped to you. Obviously the people making the game aren't marketing to your area, and therefore you're not a lost sale anyways. Or when the game company/publisher has gone out of business or has just plain stopped selling the game ages ago. Since the game isn't being sold, you can't be a lost sale. I think those are the only two situation in which it's justified without question. It's still not legal, but you're technically not hurting anyone so it's ethically justified. Otherwise I agree with you.

Just a quick question, if I own a game, say, GTA 4 and it's TBoGT content on an xbox 360, would it be legal to pirate it for PC platform?[/hypothetical]

[QUOTE=LifeIsGood;32385930]Just a quick question, if I own a game, say, GTA 4 and it's TBoGT content on an xbox 360, would it be legal to pirate it for PC platform?[/hypothetical][/QUOTE] yeah it would be

For some reason, I don't feel as satisfied playing a pirated game over a bought game. I know they are basically the same thing but I cant bring myself to play pirated games anymore. Though I'll admit I did a fair share of pirating as a kid.

It gets publishers more people following them and interested in the games, even when the people spreading the praise wouldn't have bought the game in the first place. I see no problem with pirating (unless it's an indie game).

Piracy is a great way to try before you buy, not taking any chances with a ban so I'll say it like this: [i]if[/i] I [i]did[/i] ever pirate any games, I'd either buy them immediately, uninstall them and wait for them to go on sale, or (if it's a terrible game) just uninstall and be thankful that I didn't blow any money on an awful game. Totally hypothetical but if I had pirated about 20 games and 3 of them were terrible, I'd own 17 of those games now and I would have played less than a half hour of each of the 3 bad games. [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=LifeIsGood;32385930]Just a quick question, if I own a game, say, GTA 4 and it's TBoGT content on an xbox 360, would it be legal to pirate it for PC platform?[/hypothetical][/QUOTE] technically not legal but definitely moral when you buy a game or music you're not actually buying it, you're buying that specific [i]copy[/i] of it [editline]19th September 2011[/editline] Limited piracy is also an incredibly effective marketing tactic, if someone were to pirate Starcraft 2 for the multiplayer they'd find that they could only play the singleplayer, not even vs-AI skirmishes. If they decide they like the game and want to play regular multiplayer matches, they'd need to buy the game.

[QUOTE=cccritical;32386228] technically not legal but definitely moral when you buy a game or music you're not actually buying it, you're buying that specific [i]copy[/i] of it [/QUOTE] Well actually, if you say, download a game for a windows machine, you can make/torrent/whatever infinite copies of that same game as long as they're for personal use.

this is a quote from the DMCA [quote][circumvention is allowed if a user is] adversely affected by virtue of such prohibition in their ability to make noninfringing uses of that particular class of works under this title[/quote] I've heard a lot of people say that cracking a game is OK as long as you own it, but according to this, it isn't. You are only allowed to circumvent DRM if the DRM is directly affecting your ability to access the content. That doesn't sound like 'you own the game = you can crack it' to me. Can someone clarify?

[QUOTE=Macktastic;32386399]this is a quote from the DMCA I've heard a lot of people say that cracking a game is OK as long as you own it, but according to this, it isn't. You are only allowed to circumvent DRM if the DRM is directly affecting your ability to access the content. That doesn't sound like 'you own the game = you can crack it' to me. Can someone clarify?[/QUOTE] I'm not saying crack it, I'm saying if you were to say, own a copy of street fighter for the playstation 3, you would be allowed to get a ps3 emulator and download a ROM of that game legally.

If you lose the disc and the DRM stops you from making an ISO of the game and from launching it without the disc, it's fine to crack it.

[QUOTE=Macktastic;32386399]this is a quote from the DMCA I've heard a lot of people say that cracking a game is OK as long as you own it, but according to this, it isn't. You are only allowed to circumvent DRM if the DRM is directly affecting your ability to access the content. That doesn't sound like 'you own the game = you can crack it' to me. Can someone clarify?[/QUOTE] No cracking isn't legal, why would it be? Oh you meant for personal use? Never mind then.

[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;32386426]I'm not saying crack it, I'm saying if you were to say, own a copy of street fighter for the playstation 3, you would be allowed to get a ps3 emulator and download a ROM of that game legally.[/QUOTE] well, what I said wasn't directed toward you, but I can answer that question, I think yes, you are allowed to have emulators, but 1) you are supposed to own the hardware that you are emulating and 2) you have to get your own BIOS from your own machine

[QUOTE=Macktastic;32386464]well, what I said wasn't directed toward you, but I can answer that question, I think yes, you are allowed to have emulators, but 1) you are supposed to own the hardware that you are emulating and 2) you have to get your own BIOS from your own machine[/QUOTE] I used to do this with my N64 when my Ocarina of Time cartridge stopped working. Was never as good with the game pad I was using.

[QUOTE=froztshock;32385378]The way I see it, the only situation in which piracy is justified is when the game is physically impossible to get otherwise. Like if the game isn't sold in your area and there's absolutely no way to get it shipped to you. Obviously the people making the game aren't marketing to your area, and therefore you're not a lost sale anyways. Or when the game company/publisher has gone out of business or has just plain stopped selling the game ages ago. Since the game isn't being sold, you can't be a lost sale. I think those are the only two situation in which it's justified without question. It's still not legal, but you're technically not hurting anyone so it's ethically justified. Otherwise I agree with you.[/QUOTE] Despite my opinions against piracy, that's the only justifiable reason to do so. I've downloaded a few old games that I spent months scouring stores for, only because no one sold it and I couldn't find any ebay copies in good condition.

The one thing I did try was Homefront, and that was for the PS3. I had pre-ordered the game and it came out on the scene a few days early. That instances of pirating, I was glad I didn't buy it. The game was trash. Promptly canceled my pre-order and deleted the game from my HD (like I want that crap taking space up). In that respect, no harm was done. A copy was destroyed and no money was lost from the developer (besides making a shit game). I'm sure if you played Homefront, you'd agree with me.

Piracy is not justified. You aren't obligated to get something for free just because you don't feel like paying for it. This is in the general sense, I do believe there are plenty of exceptions, but the "I wasn't going to buy it anyway" argument doesn't hold any water. If you pirated it, you obviously still wanted it.

I only download things until I can buy them on DVD. Then delete them straight afterwards. And I refuse to do anything else. People work hard to make this stuff. So I won't steal their work.

I don't see anything wrong with "Piracy." I call it "file sharing" to be honest. Piracy is stealing, stealing is denying use to the original owner. In the case of indie games: I always buy. Indie developers are the "true" warriors in the field, and don't get much attention. Like Garry, when he first put out Garry's Mod it didn't get as much attention until he made it truly badass, now it's great. There have been many times in the last 10 years where piracy has been aknowledged as a way of growth, especially by Adobe. Their statistics show that those who pirate their products are likely to buy them once in college because they are offered cheaper, and college students can generally afford them. Microsoft admitted that over 30% of computers running Windows XP were running illegal copies. Who truly is a hero of piracy, is Minecraft's Notch. Someone posted a Tweet to him, saying that he's enjoying his pirated copy of Minecraft. Notch responded by saying, "Enjoy it. Not buying it is not going to bankrupt me."

The way I see it, if you don't buy the game, you shouldn't be allowed to play the game. I'm fine with torrenting a crack to bypass DRM or skip disc checks, and I'm all for digital backups. However, torrenting an entire game, playing it, and not buying it is wrong in my opinion. [I]"I can't afford games"/"I wouldn't buy it anyways"/"I hate them so I'll pirate"[/I] So fucking what? You're not entitled to play the game without paying. [I]"They're already rich, they don't need more money"/"They just ripped off another game"[/I] Then don't play the game. [I]"But I can't pay for it!"/"It's a 60$ PC release, unfair"/"It's just a port"[/I] Doesn't mean you're justified. If you've paid for a game, great. It's yours. Feel free to crack it so that you can get past that annoying loading screen bug the developers have failed to fix. Don't wanna pay but wanna play? Deal with it. Value your own integrity and skip it.