Pirating and other illegal free options through the internet - General

[QUOTE=fenwick;32387605]Piracy is not justified. You aren't obligated to get something for free just because you don't feel like paying for it. [/QUOTE] I don't think the devs/producers deserve shit if they released shit.

Battlestar Galactica: When the first episode of the new series aired, people downloaded it. They loved it. They told their friends. Their friends downloaded it, loved it and told their friends again. When it first aired outside the US it was the most watched TV show at the time, getting South Park ratings... on a first episode. That's [I]never[/I] happened before. They grossed more then they'd ever expected, and it was al thanks to piracy.

[QUOTE=myalt22;32388275]I don't think the devs/producers deserve shit if they released shit.[/QUOTE] This doesn't make sense. If it's so bad, why would you want it?

[QUOTE=mac338;32388588]Battlestar Galactica: When the first episode of the new series aired, people downloaded it. They loved it. They told their friends. Their friends downloaded it, loved it and told their friends again. When it first aired outside the US it was the most watched TV show at the time, getting South Park ratings... on a first episode. That's [I]never[/I] happened before. They grossed more then they'd ever expected, and it was al thanks to piracy.[/QUOTE] Just because they benefited from piracy doesn't make it right. TV Shows also gain the main bulk of their revenue through advertising, not through selling it directly to customers. Other forms of entertainment don't have that luxury: it's a lost sale.

My point is piracy [I]can[/I] have a positive marketing effect in some cases. Not in all, but some.

With all this talk it makes me wonder how much game companies,musicians etc. get their money from special editions that come with additional but physical content. Is there a possibility that including physical stuff with digital works could offset some of the pirating? Also companies may have to rely on consumer loyalty, which would involve heavy PR, like Valve.

I think pirating games to try them out before paying for them is fine, really. It's the same with cloth. You like to try them out before you buy them. As long as you only pirate it to try it out, then buy it if you enjoy it and to support the creator or the game, it should not be frowned upon.

[QUOTE=myalt22;32388275]I don't think the devs/producers deserve shit if they released shit.[/QUOTE] Then why the fuck would you pirate things that are shit?

I do believe the whole to pirate or not to pirate argument is really based off money and little morals. Anyways while I was doing some research for an english assignment I found this [url]http://www.nzfact.co.nz/press_releases/Escape%20from%20Terror%20Byte%20City.pdf[/url] it probably takes a few reties to get it working

[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;32389750]Then why the fuck would you pirate things that are shit?[/QUOTE] Usually marketing of a game or other product is heavily misguiding and it really sucks if you go on and buy something you hoped to be a deep and interesting angle on a concept when it turns out to be the same generic zombie shit in a different setting. I wouldn't buy a car just because the car producer is telling me to have a boner for it - I want to have a free testdrive [B]on my own terms[/B] before I hand over my money.

I normally pirate stuff that I wouldn't buy myself. There are so many other ways to get music and movies without having to pirate it, the reason why I started pirating movies is because I realised all out movies were shitty bali copies.

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;32386498]Despite my opinions against piracy, that's the only justifiable reason to do so. I've downloaded a few old games that I spent months scouring stores for, only because no one sold it and I couldn't find any ebay copies in good condition.[/QUOTE] This actually raises a question that I wanted to ask for a while. What if you did find it but it cost over x amount of $ to buy? Would you still buy it then?

I think it's okay to download games that you already own since you already supported the creators by buying it and an example for when you actually do that is when you buy a game, lose the game disk, download the game and then use your own paid cd-key to activate it

Piracy does support the game company. Notch has made many good examples why pirating is okay. See, when someone pirates a game, and likes it, maybe he will recommend the game to 4 of his friends? Maybe he will create a thread about it on facepunch. Maybe he will give the game lots of publicity. Copying is not stealing. There is no potential loss for the company, if the person pirating it, was not going to buy it anyway.

Piracy is stealing and it is prevalent enough now that creators are losing revenue (how much exactly is hard to calculate). It is only justified if there is no other legal way to acquire something; ie, it will never be licensed or sold in or to your area. That way, it is understood that there are no lost sales when you download something and you get to enjoy it which is probably what the creator wants anyway. If you like smething enough then you should buy it if you can. Another question; what do you think about pirating something that you know you don't want to support in the slightest but you still want to play/watch for whatever reason (even if you know beforehand you won't enjoy the experience)? For example; a Transformer movie.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;32390997]Piracy does support the game company. Notch has made many good examples why pirating is okay. See, when someone pirates a game, and likes it, maybe he will recommend the game to 4 of his friends? Maybe he will create a thread about it on facepunch. Maybe he will give the game lots of publicity. Copying is not stealing. There is no potential loss for the company, if the person pirating it, was not going to buy it anyway.[/QUOTE] Way to go just saying what everyone else for piracy has said 20 tims already.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;32390997]Piracy does support the game company. Notch has made many good examples why pirating is okay. See, when someone pirates a game, and likes it, maybe he will recommend the game to 4 of his friends? Maybe he will create a thread about it on facepunch. Maybe he will give the game lots of publicity. Copying is not stealing. There is no potential loss for the company, if the person pirating it, was not going to buy it anyway.[/QUOTE] He recommends it to his friends who then also pirate it?

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32391019]Way to go just saying what everyone else for piracy has said 20 tims already.[/QUOTE] Sorry, i didnt read the entire thread. [QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32391039]He recommends it to his friends who then also pirate it?[/QUOTE] Why would all his friends be pirates? Even if they were, his friends would probably tell about it to their friends and so on.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;32391072]Sorry, i didnt read the entire thread. Why would all his friends be pirates? Even if they were, his friends would probably tell about it to their friends and so on.[/QUOTE] And then their friends pirate it and so on and so on. Or they don't. But this works the other way round too, I bought JC2 pre-order, really liked it. Told my friends and all them sons of bitches pirated it/

The way I see it piracy itself can never be justified, except possibly when the thing can't be found but with things like GoG retro game shops and the wii virtual arcade that is likely becoming harder to justify too. Because there is always the option to just not buying it. That doesn't I mean I think people will stop or that I think piracy is an extremely horrible thing, however people who try to act like they aren't doing anything wrong are annoying and stupid.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;32391072] Why would all his friends be pirates? Even if they were, his friends would probably tell about it to their friends and so on.[/QUOTE] My point is, is that you can make new fans by encouraging them to spend $0 for a game to play and like but you'll be making them the bad kind of fan; the fan that does not support the creators - leeches off of them - and perhaps feels a little bit self-entitled for no justifiable reason. It's all well and good if you like what the creators made but is it too unfair for them to expect to be payed for their work? You can claim that sales aren't lost because those without the money wouldn't have bought something anyway. However, at this point a lot of people are used to getting things for free. Any price apart from a pittance may seem like it's "too expensive" compared to $0.

[QUOTE=Jabberwocky;32391176]My point is, is that you can make new fans by encouraging them to spend $0 for a game to play and like but you'll be making them the bad kind of fan; the fan that does not support the creators - leeches off of them - and perhaps feels a little bit self-entitled for no justifiable reason. It's all well and good if you like what the creators made but is it too unfair for them to expect to be payed for their work? You can claim that sales aren't lost because those without the money wouldn't have bought something anyway. However, at this point a lot of people are used to getting things for free. Any price apart from a pittance may seem like it's "too expensive" compared to $0.[/QUOTE] They probably wouldnt have bought the game either way. So its not potential loss for the creators. Even if they pirated the game, they would still give the game more publicity. Sure, maybe few of them would actually buy the game before trying it out, but many of them wouldnt bother spending money on it. For indie devs, i think piracy is important. Indie devs need the publicity.

Download an album worth £10 and like what i hear. See them live for £40. (true story) As far as music is concerned piracy is good publicity for those who would not justify buying it however end up liking it. also [img]http://www.megaleecher.net/uploads/piracy-is-theft.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32379464]I'm all for piracy but we all know this is ridiculous. You are taking something that is not rightfully yours, even if they don't 'lose' anything you are still stealing copyrighted material.[/QUOTE] I'm not taking something, I'm copying it. Nothing is lost in the process, unless you count "potential profit".

[QUOTE=dajoh;32391307]I'm not taking something, I'm copying it. Nothing is lost in the process, unless you count "potential profit".[/QUOTE] You seem to not understand what copyright means. Lets say someone makes a website, and someone breaks in to the server and [b]copies[/b] the source, would you consider that stealing? According to your definition no. But you have to understand that there doesn't even have to be any loss of profit when stealing [b]intellectual property[/b]

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32391357]You seem to not understand what copyright means. Lets say someone makes a website, and someone breaks in to the server and [b]copies[/b] the source, would you consider that stealing? According to your definition no. But you have to understand that there doesn't even have to be any loss of profit when stealing [b]intellectual property[/b][/QUOTE] No, I wouldn't consider that stealing. Breaking into the server would be the crime here.

[QUOTE=Fatal-Error;32377552]If a Developer doesn't release a Demo, by all means torrent it to try it out, if it sucks you're going to delete it anyway, if you enjoy it, buy it. Simple.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but people don't work like that.

Reading all these comments make the think actually. So you guys think it's "right" to download pirated games if you have bought it and it failed etc etc? I've always bought a new copy, since often the support doesn't help me out. Oh well, that was years ago since last time. Digital copies yay!

[QUOTE=dajoh;32391507]No, I wouldn't consider that stealing. Breaking into the server would be the crime here.[/QUOTE] You're part of the facepunch programmers group for crying out loud, how can you of all people justify taking something from someone else without permission. It's like a coders worst nightmare, someone else stealing your code.

[QUOTE=mobrockers2;32391608]You're part of the facepunch programmers group for crying out loud, how can you of all people justify taking something from someone else without permission. It's like a coders worst nightmare, someone else stealing your code.[/QUOTE] Not mine, I release all my stuff into the public domain. Even if I created something proprietary, it wouldn't be my "worst nightmare" if people pirated it. Oh and again, it's not taking something, and it's not stealing, it's copying.