Justin Trudeau's mic drop on why a gender-balanced cabinet is important to him - General

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49048592]Real equality means not taking peoples race/religion/gender into account.[/QUOTE] I used to believe this too, but then I realized equality and justice aren't in the same boat. To reach true equality, you have to employ some justice that involves taking actions that aren't considered "equal" - A majority of politics has been long dominated by men, and policy has been written from a male perspective, and sometimes in manners that hurt women - Women who are just as qualified as men often don't get picked for reasons besides experience. Fact of the matter is, to achieve equality where hires can be truly gender neutral, a certain level of gender balance in the field is needed to begin with. OBVIOUSLY, there's been misuse of idea, sometimes in academia. But in order to give everyone an equal voice, you have to pick those whose voice isn't as heard over others. Anyway, in this case the picks for the cabinets are all sufficiently qualified, so it isn't like he hired a suburban soccer mom over an experienced male politician for the sake of representation

The fact of the matter is this: All of the women appointed were very qualified for the positions. Were they chosen because they were a woman? Maybe in part, but the thing about that is that in a political cabinet, the female point of view is another aspect of their value. Also, there is a gender imbalance in many fields, it might seem a bit superficial to choose people just because they are female, but we'll never solve gender inequality if we don't purposely do something about it now. Until we actually HAVE women in places of power, we won't get used to it enough to not think about it.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49051591]That's easy! I'll take a coin and flip it, heads the man gets the position, tails the woman gets it. Can't call me sexist now![/QUOTE] Sure I can: You see by ascribing heads to the man you are trying to sublinimanalyly send a massage and state that men are the rational level HEADED choice. Furthermore you didn't state an option for what happens if the coin lands on its edge which is the most revolting piece of transphobia I have ever seen. See its not so hard if you are willing to use your imagination.

[URL="http://www.thebeaverton.com/national/item/2204-50-female-cabinet-appointments-lead-to-5000-increase-in-guys-who-suddenly-care-about-merit-in-cabinet"]50% female cabinet appointments lead to 5000% increase in guys who suddenly care about merit in cabinet[/URL]

[QUOTE=MisterMooth;49068641][URL="http://www.thebeaverton.com/national/item/2204-50-female-cabinet-appointments-lead-to-5000-increase-in-guys-who-suddenly-care-about-merit-in-cabinet"]50% female cabinet appointments lead to 5000% increase in guys who suddenly care about merit in cabinet[/URL][/QUOTE] I'm pretty damned certain that you just linked to the canadian the onion. [url]http://www.thebeaverton.com/health/item/2215-being-buried-alive-by-nemesis-now-leading-cause-of-death[/url] If you did this unironically this is the part where we throw our heads back and laugh.

[QUOTE=Murky42;49068807]I'm pretty damned certain that you just linked to the canadian the onion.[/QUOTE] you're a genius

[QUOTE=Dr. Fishtastic;49053844]I used to believe this too, but then I realized equality and justice aren't in the same boat. To reach true equality, you have to employ some justice that involves taking actions that aren't considered "equal" - A majority of politics has been long dominated by men, and policy has been written from a male perspective, and sometimes in manners that hurt women - Women who are just as qualified as men often don't get picked for reasons besides experience. Fact of the matter is, to achieve equality where hires can be truly gender neutral, a certain level of gender balance in the field is needed to begin with. OBVIOUSLY, there's been misuse of idea, sometimes in academia. But in order to give everyone an equal voice, you have to pick those whose voice isn't as heard over others. Anyway, in this case the picks for the cabinets are all sufficiently qualified, so it isn't like he hired a suburban soccer mom over an experienced male politician for the sake of representation[/QUOTE] You answered the question better than Trudeau himself, from his perspective, at least. I still have apprehension over the idea of a perfect 50/50. At least someone who would have been more qualified than the other, was ditched for equality. I'd prefer a "We're trying as best we can for proper representation, while at the same time appointing the most experienced and qualified for the job." This might translate to something like a 40/60 or something like that, but I'd still be happy with it , regardless.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;49048582][URL]https://www.facebook.com/GlobalNews/videos/917485664965866/[/URL] Can't find a youtube version yet.[/QUOTE] Hehe chronological snobbery. [img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11648828/Misc/lmaodudeits2015.jpg[/img]

The alternative to this 50% women cabinet is a 100% white men cabinet. Which do you guys prefer?

how about this: [I]we don't care about percentages.[/I] what matters is how qualified each candidate is. if the 100% white male cabinet has more people who are better qualified, then i prefer that one. if the 50% women cabinet has more qualified members, then i prefer that. e-z

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49073731]The alternative to this 50% women cabinet is a 100% white men cabinet. Which do you guys prefer?[/QUOTE] yes because women are weaker creatures that can never get into positions of power themselves unless we forcibly put them there

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49073731]The alternative to this 50% women cabinet is a 100% white men cabinet. Which do you guys prefer?[/QUOTE] Because women and minorities won't succeed unless quotas are mandated? Now he picked great people but his statements echo the belief that we should factor in race/religion/sex when employing people regardless of merit.

[QUOTE=DarklytheGreat;49073856]how about this: [I]we don't care about percentages.[/I] what matters is how qualified each candidate is. if the 100% white male cabinet has more people who are better qualified, then i prefer that one. if the 50% women cabinet has more qualified members, then i prefer that. e-z[/QUOTE] Harper filled his cabinet with 100% white men who were not fit for their position, and no one blinks an eye. Trudaeu fills his cabinet with 50% women who are qualified for their position and everyone goes nuts. Seriously. Harper never made headlines for having a shit cabinet filled with white men, while Trudaeu gets hugely criticized for having women that are qualified.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49077367]Harper filled his cabinet with 100% white men who were not fit for their position, and no one blinks an eye. Trudaeu fills his cabinet with 50% women who are qualified for their position and everyone goes nuts. Seriously. Harper never made headlines for having a shit cabinet filled with white men, while Trudaeu gets hugely criticized for having women that are qualified.[/QUOTE] I think you're missing the bit of concern about the strict rule of 50%. The whole equality thing should have always been a goal, but having a set quota is effectively begging for someone to be trumped over based on gender.

[QUOTE=WhyNott;49075218]yes because women are weaker creatures that can never get into positions of power themselves unless we forcibly put them there[/QUOTE] Cleopatra for 500. No really, I think women always been in charge. It just now they occupy the offices instead of manipulating the people in it.

People complain about every instance of affirmative action but never fight for equal opportunity.

[QUOTE=Flameon;49078273]People complain about every instance of affirmative action but never fight for equal opportunity.[/QUOTE] what equal opportunity measure are they not fighting for that you think they should be?

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49077367]Harper filled his cabinet with 100% white men who were not fit for their position, and [B]no one blinks an eye.[/B] [/QUOTE] You really think so?

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49078366]You really think so?[/QUOTE] Where are the threads on Facepunch or news articles where Harper is criticized for his choice for his cabinet? Stephen Harper has been PM for ~9 years and didn't make headlines for having a shit cabinet with 100% white men, while Trudeau has only been PM for a couple of days and he gets blasted for having a cabinet with 50% women despite the fact that they're qualified for the job.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49078451]Where are the threads on Facepunch or news articles where Harper is criticized for his choice for his cabinet? Stephen Harper has been PM for ~9 years and didn't make headlines for having a shit cabinet with 100% white men, while Trudeau has only been PM for a couple of days and he gets blasted for having a cabinet with 50% women despite the fact that they're qualified for the job.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure that they've been very critical of Harper and the conservative party in general. The flak indiscriminately equal. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1231483[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1481945[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1465028[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1351503[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1481125[/url]

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49078451]Trudeau has only been PM for a couple of days and he gets blasted for having a cabinet with 50% women despite the fact that they're qualified for the job.[/QUOTE] You're distorting this greatly. Its the reasons for the 50% and diversity. He's advancing the idea that we should just have parity for parities sake.