[QUOTE=TheTalon;34855886]A lot of people think that (And wrongly so) they know the law better than the police, and somehow think being asked to show your ID is violating their constitutional rights and yata yata.
But it isn't. An officer can lawfully ask for your ID if you're not on your property. And in a lot of cases, it's unlawful not to present it, unless you're just walking along doing nothing
Being pulled over just for the sake of being pulled over, is though. Officers MUST have probable cause to do it, but just about anything can be probable cause. Though as long as you follow the law and your car isn't fucked up in some way, you're good to go[/QUOTE]
SC has no such law, Steve Hindi was in the clear and he was receiving his information on the phone from his attorney, so I'm quite sure he knew the law. The only person in that video demonstrating that they didn't know the law was that redneck cop.
look for yourself.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes[/url]
The cop was acting like a smug asshole, was obviously on the side of the shooters/property owners, and was violating the law by lying and also intimidating. No matter how you look at it, he was the one continuing the situation. It is his position to determine if a law is being broken, which he did not properly do, and that is it. He does not have the enforcement right to get identification or have the vehicle moved. The man doesn't want to show him his ID- end of story. He doesn't have to show the ID. He doesn't want to move the vehicle and is not breaking a law- he doesn't have to move the vehicle, end of story. The cop is the instigator, not him. He was there, doing what he does, lawfully, and the cop continued to berate and bother him to the extent of making up laws. Cop's in the wrong here, not the citizen, who has no obligation to move the vehicle nor provide identification.
BigOwl is completely incorrect. I seriously think you need to revise your outlook on the law and the position and relationship between citizens and law enforcement in the US. It's not about having anything to hide, it's about things not being anyone else's business. You have a protection against being identified, you do not have to. All there is to it. Alternately, have you ever considered the harm in providing ID? If he hasn't done anything wrong, as is the case, the cop takes his ID, searches him, finds out any other dirt he has on him, and in a situation like this where the cop is clearly tip-toeing around the law, uses it to further intimidate or berate- or at the very least, he's reported for not complying, which could later be used in the same situation.
And if anyone pulls some sarcastic "all cops are bad thing", claiming I'm saying that, I'm not, because most cops do their jobs fine, but we all know that there are bad cops and I know personally, from a personal situation and from having two family members and a good friend working with police and law for well over 30 years combined, that at least in my area, that police frequently employ tactics like minor intimidation and referring back to past incidents, either crimes or simply encounters, to force compliance in smaller matters.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;34851961]Well, one guy actually pulled a gun on them because of it.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC_zrGwaoMM[/media][/QUOTE]
I would have done the same thing if someone is fucking on my ass following me for whatever reason.
I always love how these guys post videos in the middle of the event and never post the before and after footage.
They simply cut and edit what they want to show and nothing more.
These guys are bat-shit insane, i mean i though PETA was bad but I would rather hang out with them then SHARK.
Looks like the collenton county police are at it again, harassing SHARK members, this time over their Octopcoper. Same methods to their madness though, fake statues and empty threats. If SHARK was doing anything unlawful they would have been detained and cited for it, considering how much attention they receive from the police.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLekpcTIaqM&feature=channel_video_title[/media]
Notice how he can't even cite any statue numbers, you'd think his supervisor (the moron from the previous video) would have had him better prepared. It's intimidation, plain and simple. If there was an actual statue preventing SHARK from flying it, the police would have been able to cite it in detail.
It doesn't matter if these SHARK guys are being dicks or not - I think they need to go die in a fire. Police straight-up lying for the convenience for a friend is completely inexcusable - Those officers need to be charged to the full extent of the law for their actions.
[QUOTE=bord2tears;34856879]It doesn't matter if these SHARK guys are being dicks or not - I think they need to go die in a fire. Police straight-up lying for the convenience for a friend is completely inexcusable - Those officers need to be charged to the full extent of the law for their actions.[/QUOTE]
Were any of them actually arrested or at least forced to leave?
[QUOTE=Lamar;34856859]Looks like the collenton county police are at it again, harassing SHARK members, this time over their Octopcoper. Same methods to their madness though, fake statues and empty threats. If SHARK was doing anything unlawful they would have been detained and cited for it, considering how much attention they receive from the police.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLekpcTIaqM&feature=channel_video_title[/media]
Notice how he can't even cite any statue numbers, you'd think his supervisor (the moron from the previous video) would have had him better prepared. It's intimidation, plain and simple. If there was an actual statue preventing SHARK from flying it, the police would have been able to cite it in detail.[/QUOTE]
For a group that chases down hunters in cars and fly camera equipped helicopters over other people property they sure do cry harassment a lot.
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;34856945]Were any of them actually arrested or at least forced to leave?[/QUOTE]
They were forced to move their vehicles. They were also forced to give their identification to the officers, who promptly showed them to the lawyer for the pidgin shoot. They were also threatened with "detainment" for not following the orders of the officers. It is obvious to me that the officer was trying his best to invent law/use the law to the benefit of the land owner.
Honestly, the pidgin doesn't seem worth all this hassle from the SHARK or law enforcement side.
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;34857022]For a group that chases down hunters in cars and fly camera equipped helicopters over other people property they sure do cry harassment a lot.[/QUOTE]
The fuck does that have to do with anything? Nice adhominem there. "well yeah maybe I'm wrong but they are assholes". Who cares, they don't break any laws while doing that and I think making up laws to help one citizen at the expense of another is unlawful, might be wrong. But it's still worse in my book.
[QUOTE=MR-X;34856813]I would have done the same thing if someone is fucking on my ass following me for whatever reason.
I always love how these guys post videos in the middle of the event and never post the before and after footage.
They simply cut and edit what they want to show and nothing more.
These guys are bat-shit insane, i mean i though PETA was bad but I would rather hang out with them then SHARK.[/QUOTE]
As scary as it is to get followed like that, pulling the gun on an unarmed person was uncalled for. If he kept his cool and called the cops he could have charged them with harassment or something, now both sides are fucking morons.
Also I can't take an organization with the name "SHowing Animals Respect and Kindness" seriously. Not saying they don't have a point, they do. Just a really silly name imo.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;34859387]The fuck does that have to do with anything? Nice adhominem there. "well yeah maybe I'm wrong but they are assholes". Who cares, they don't break any laws while doing that and I think making up laws to help one citizen at the expense of another is unlawful, might be wrong. But it's still worse in my book.[/QUOTE]
They constantly complain about the way they are harassed but yet they chase people down in cars. Im not saying it makes anything right or wrong, but it makes it hard to take them seriously.
Honestly it looks like there are idiots on both sides of this entire issue.
The video of them chasing that guy was damn stupid. They're little chase could have harmed other people and the street was busy. They could have hit someone and caused an accident. They even blew a stop sign. Then the guy was an idiot for pulling out a gun over being shoved...give me a break... At least his buddy with him had some nerve and told him to chill out and put the gun away.
I feel bad for Deputy Beach. He looks stuck in the middle of a bunch of BS and looks like he is reasonable and has his commanding officers (who obviously favor the hunters) are pressuring him to do all the work they would be doing.
Honestly, if it were up to me I would tell both sides to just deal with each other and quit being a bunch of crybabies. Then, if there were appropriate charges, start handing out citations on both sides of the conflict. (IE - that whole fiasco with the chasing each other around. Numerous violations on both sides of that little stunt.)
There's a sort of vibe as if SHARK acts unlawfully, with the exception of the video of them following them that one guy (both parties were cited in that case) it's the pigeon-shooting club members are the ones that act unlawfully and have already been cited multiple times.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULD2m5iQls8&feature=related[/media]
Calling them idiots is also quite uncalled for when you see haven't seen the type of people they deal with.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N3zkdXIhAw&feature=related[/media]
Looks like they're really cracking down on the evil underground crime world of pigeon shooting
Who needs a counter argument when you can rate dumb?
The funny thing is, my first statement was actually a serious statement, but when their cause was actually vocalized, it sounded so silly that even OP assumed I was making fun of them. Well played, but /thread
silly?
stuffing domesticated birds into a box and then launching them out one by one so they can be shot is retarded especially when clay pigeons are better in every way. There's a reason why live pigeon shooting has been outright banned in many places, you know.
Personally I wouldn't go through the trouble SHARK is going through to stop it, but I don't understand why people here condemn them here so often when they're at least trying to do some good. What do the people who oppose them do? Abuse police privilege? Misrepresent the law? Hit SHARK members with their cars? Verbally harass members? Assault SHARK members?
any of that sound better to you?
The thing about this situation is not that it is illegal that they are parking their in a certain way or flying the Octocopter, it is the potential danger that these acts impose on the activists, the hunters, and any bystanders that may be caught with in the conflict.
Yes, they have idiots on both sides but when one of the idiots is willing to go as far as getting shot for their cause and one of the other idiots decides to take pot shots at them, blood will be spilled.
I'm not on the side of the hunters or the SHARK member but more on the side of the cops and other citizens. The cops is just trying to stop agitation from both sides, therefore removing any chance of violence taking place.
Whether it is ethical to domesticate birds for slaughter is debatable but not through violence or threats like this. The best act is through diplomacy if given a good chance without being a public nuisance.
SHARK isn't resorting to any violence or threats, all they do is document club pigeon shoots.
[QUOTE=Lamar;34864929]SHARK isn't resorting to any violence or threats, all they do is document club pigeon shoots.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tinn;34864194]
Yes, they have idiots on both sides but when one of the idiots is willing to go as far as getting shot for their cause and one of the other idiots decides to take pot shots at them, blood will be spilled.
I'm not on the side of the hunters or the SHARK member but more on the side of the cops and other citizens. The cops is just trying to stop agitation from both sides, [B]therefore removing any chance of violence taking place. [/B] [/QUOTE]
I some what agree with the officer in this regard, Shark just seems to be a bunch of guys who seem to make a problem bigger than it should be, thus turning it into a hazard for human life, as that guy pulling a gun on them.
Just record and call the cops, show em what ya got and let them deal with it.
[QUOTE=Lamar;34863845]silly?
stuffing domesticated birds into a box and then launching them out one by one so they can be shot is retarded especially when clay pigeons are better in every way. There's a reason why live pigeon shooting has been outright banned in many places, you know.
Personally I wouldn't go through the trouble SHARK is going through to stop it, but I don't understand why people here condemn them here so often when they're at least trying to do some good. What do the people who oppose them do? Abuse police privilege? Misrepresent the law? Hit SHARK members with their cars? Verbally harass members? Assault SHARK members?
any of that sound better to you?[/QUOTE]
Yeah two wrongs don't make a right.
SHARK stalks people, harasses, trespasses, and goes out of their way to just be a pain in the ass. If you want to save wildlife that is fine. It is a respectable cause. Hell SHARK seems to just want to "name and shame." Only thing they actively do is be a pain in the ass and post videos.
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