• The Video That BLM does not want you to see.
    146 replies, posted
This video and the image gallery posted by RaptorJGW really shows how insane this movement, more importantly, this year has become. We got people honest to god hunting cops down on as a "protest" on cops killing people more than saving, but then you get a ton of people all the way in Charlotte doing a peaceful protest and what I can gather cops being reasonable authority figures and down-to-Earth. I really hope that we can find a peaceful, less harmful solution to all of this.
[QUOTE=Flameon;51103955]I understand your point. At the same time, I do not interpret them as saying "X-person was flawless, a second coming of Christ" and more-so saying "despite what this person did, they did not deserve to be killed in the streets." If they are martyrs, it is only in the sense that they deaths function as magnifying glasses to incriminate a larger institutional issue.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure how you interpret the word "deserve", as an opponent to the death penalty I don't believe anyone truly deserve to die. But in the case of justified shootings their deaths were necessary to prevent the death of others. They were killed because they presented a lethal threat. I don't know what "larger institutional issues" the protesting of these killings are supposed to call attention to. To me it seems rather logical that the duty of the police is to protect the people and that it is their right to protect themselves. There is no issue here other than the unfortunate reality that the death of the threat was required to protect others' lives, as such I simply don't see the use of protesting those other than further exacerbate the tensions between the black community and the police force.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51104068]Don't you think BLM actually [B]contributes[/B] to this issue? The problem, as you pointed out, is one of [I]perception.[/I] Doesn't BLM promote an erroneous and vilified perception of the police when they accuse them of being murderers regardless of whether it was justified? Should it really come off as surprising that black people don't view the police as resolving black on black violence if every time they actually do they get accused of murdering an innocent?[/quote] BLM is calling a spade-a-spade. Yes, there are activists that over-react and lashout at the protests, but their lashout is not blind hatered directed at the police but instead the manifestation of their socialization brought on by countless interactions they've had, or their friends/family have had, with the police not being a positive impact on them. [quote] You talk about holding the police accountable, but what about recognizing their positive impact on the community? Wouldn't that be even more efficient at making black people trust them and respect them? Hell, maybe even join them? The only thing that BLM is achieving right now is fuel the hate towards the police. If their goal is to strengthen the bond between the police and black communities, they are incredibly misguided. Or, BLM paints the police in really broad strokes, antagonizing them even more - which in turn further prevents the police from properly protecting the very people who protest against them.[/quote] The goal should not be to spread a bunch of pro-police propoganda out of the misguided belief that black people will cooperate with police officers, accept institutional racism, and then have the fire that is black-on-black crime being put out. Institutional racism in policing is kindling/grease/choose your metaphor to that fire. The goal should be to solve the real, legitimate, gripes people have with policing and then do the year-long work of repairing a relationship between a community and the force that is supposed to protect them. [quote] What about the [I]really obvious solution[/I] of encouraging black people to join the police? Wouldn't that be far more efficient than merely protesting for change? Why doesn't BLM do it? My bet is that it's because their movement is [I]ideological[/I] rather than [I]rational.[/I] Its goal is to show that the police are not trustworthy, not to actually solve the problem and they will work towards that goal even if it means protesting actually justified shooting of criminals to strengthen the narrative.[/QUOTE] BLM does say black people should join the police. [url]http://www.joincampaignzero.org/representation[/url] but they say a lot of other things too.
[QUOTE=Flameon;51103955]I understand your point. At the same time, I do not interpret them as saying "X-person was flawless, a second coming of Christ" and more-so saying "despite what this person did, they did not deserve to be killed in the streets." If they are martyrs, it is only in the sense that they deaths function as magnifying glasses to incriminate a larger institutional issue. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] whats your fix? because more of the same style of policing we have seen is an ex-post-facto solution which is empirically unsuccessful, generates backlash, and also kills a number of innocents. [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] to be clear I am not disagreeing with your data, just what you think it all means / what conclusions it lends itself to.[/QUOTE] The police can't fix this problem, it's far beyond their power. The problem lies in the ghettos and in poverty. The reason many more black people commit crimes, especially violent crimes, is because many more black people are poor. It's a well documented fact that the less people have, the more likely they are to turn to crime or to join gangs, and once gangs start cropping up it's only a matter of time before more violence starts to flare up between different gangs. The area becomes even more dangerous, more people join a gang to make money, get protection from them or because their social networks are built around it. Meanwhile, the neighborhood falls apart. It's a spiral of evil that affects all people living in poor neighborhoods like this, and it's not something that can be solved quickly and simply. At it's core though, the problem lies with the insane wealth disparity and lack of welfare in America, and that's where a solution has to be sought.
[QUOTE=Flameon;51104104]BLM is calling a spade-a-spade. Yes, there are activists that over-react and lashout at the protests, but their lashout is not blind hatered directed at the police but instead the manifestation of their socialization brought on by countless interactions they've had, or their friends/family have had, with the police not being a positive impact on them.[/QUOTE] What? I'm not talking about rioters here. I'm pointing out that there's no reason for there to be a protest about a police shooting that was justified. Accusing a police officer of murdering an innocent when they were actually protecting themselves and others from that "innocent" lethal threat is not calling a spade a spade, not in the slightest. [QUOTE]The goal should not be to spread a bunch of pro-police propoganda out of the misguided belief that black people will cooperate with police officers, accept institutional racism, and then have the fire that is black-on-black crime being put out. Institutional racism in policing is kindling/grease/choose your metaphor to that fire.[/QUOTE] You fucking serious? Is it not possible to both call for more accountability [U]and[/U] at the same time point out that the majority of cops legitimately care about the people they protect (which is, you know, the truth and not ~propaganda~)? Are you actually arguing that we should just throw all nuance out of the window, and dumb down the movement's message to neanderthal level "cops be bad, cops need be better" instead of calling attention to positive examples, models to strive towards? See, this is what I'm talking about when I say that being guided by ideology is detrimental to achieving one's goal. [QUOTE]The goal should be to solve the real, legitimate, gripes people have with policing and then do the year-long work of repairing a relationship between a community and the force that is supposed to protect them.[/QUOTE] [B]Why not both?[/B] You're not going to be able to make the police's work less stressful and thus more efficient and fair while keeping the hostility of the community towards them at the same level (or heck, increasing these levels as they are currently doing). Why do you insist on doing one after the other when both issues are codependant and need to be tackled in parallel? [QUOTE]BLM does say black people should join the police. [url]http://www.joincampaignzero.org/representation[/url] but they say a lot of other things too.[/QUOTE] And how the fuck do you expect that to work out when you're literally saying that we shouldn't under any circumstance portray the police in a positive light?
[QUOTE=SirJon;51103540]What's the US gov doing to get the situation under control?[/QUOTE] Well the last time this happened, the black panthers were involved, the FBI and other alphabet soups shut them down. Wouldn't surprise me there are undercover agents and informants in the movement trying to do the same thing now.
[QUOTE=elowin;51104154]It's a spiral of evil that affects all people living in poor neighborhoods like this, and it's not something that can be solved quickly and simply. At it's core though, the problem lies with the insane wealth disparity and lack of welfare in America, and that's where a solution has to be sought.[/QUOTE] i have my doubts the attention these issues need will be given to them so long as those who benefit from the wealth disparity hold power. if there were nation wide protests like OWS the media would portray it just as poorly as they did with OWS.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51102976]why can't we as a species realise that race doesn't change a fucking thing on a human level[/QUOTE] People are emotional. As a collective, we're even more emotional. Groups don't make logical decisions they way an individual can.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51104202]i have my doubts the attention these issues need will be given to them so long as those who benefit from the wealth disparity hold power. if there were nation wide protests like OWS the media would portray it just as poorly as they did with OWS.[/QUOTE] Things will not improve until the Left and Right put their differences aside to combat corporate might and corruption in politics. OWS was a reaction to the sub prime crisis of 2008 (which wrecked the economy.) When the economy gets wrecked, intolerance grows, racial tensions grow. The economy got wrecked due to those with the most wealth buying up people on both sides of the aisle, thus leading to less stringent regulation and enforcement of said regulations. The strangest thing is those who are the most extreme left (you know a spectrum which is against wealth disparity) defended the very actions and politicians who were the cause of the wealth disparity, corruption and thus the crisis in the first place. Sure they were hard on the GOP side for doing the same things but turned a blind to their side for the same things. Its stupid So until the blind eye syndrome is taken care of, expect things to get worse for minorities and every one else that matter.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;51102912]I've said it before and I'll say it again. BLM is absolute racist trash and I just can't understand why aren't they treating them as a domestic terrorist, black supremacist group. People here on FP even go as far as to defend these scumbags.[/QUOTE] every single person who blindly defends BLM deserves to be banned this anti-cop mentality is dangerous and stupid and needs to fuck off, it just pretends that black violence doesn't exist and it's so retarded
[QUOTE=NightmareX91;51103240]execution of police officers[/QUOTE] I don't want to watch the video because this sort of shit ruins my entire week. What exactly is the context of this? [QUOTE=J!NX;51104309]every single person who blindly defends BLM deserves to be banned this anti-cop mentality is dangerous and stupid and needs to fuck off, it just pretends that black violence doesn't exist and it's so retarded[/QUOTE] The latter I agree with 100%, the former should depend on how they argue. But yeah, we've have had literal historical destruction advocates before.
[QUOTE=Thlis;51104339]I don't want to watch the video because this sort of shit ruins my entire week. What exactly is the context of this?[/QUOTE] a montage of many different occurrences with backing music and monologue by a police officer as well as voice clips from news reports.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51104182]What? I'm not talking about rioters here. I'm pointing out that there's no reason for there to be a protest about a police shooting that was justified. Accusing a police officer of murdering an innocent when they were actually protecting themselves and others from that "innocent" lethal threat is not calling a spade a spade, not in the slightest. You fucking serious? Is it not possible to both call for more accountability [U]and[/U] at the same time point out that the majority of cops legitimately care about the people they protect (which is, you know, the truth and not ~propaganda~)? Are you actually arguing that we should just throw all nuance out of the window, and dumb down the movement's message to neanderthal level "cops be bad, cops need be better" instead of calling attention to positive examples, models to strive towards? See, this is what I'm talking about when I say that being guided by ideology is detrimental to achieving one's goal. [B]Why not both?[/B] You're not going to be able to make the police's work less stressful and thus more efficient and fair while keeping the hostility of the community towards them at the same level (or heck, increasing these levels as they are currently doing). Why do you insist on doing one after the other when both issues are codependant and need to be tackled in parallel? And how the fuck do you expect that to work out when you're literally saying that we shouldn't under any circumstance portray the police in a positive light?[/QUOTE] We are talking in generalities at the first point right now. To be honest with you, in basically all of the "high profile" cases we are talking about I do not think the police officer's decision to use lethal force saved any lives. You are welcome to have a more modified approach to how we view police, but you should probably still support the reforms BLM is pushing for then.
they're real vidoes of police dash and body cams
[QUOTE=Thlis;51104339]I don't want to watch the video because this sort of shit ruins my entire week. What exactly is the context of this?[/QUOTE] Mostly policecam footage of officers getting shot by people they pulled over.
Fuck. When that kid saluting his father was shown, I just broke down into tears
[QUOTE=Flameon;51104351]We are talking in generalities at the first point right now. To be honest with you, in basically all of the "high profile" cases we are talking about I do not think the police officer's decision to use lethal force saved any lives. You are welcome to have a more modified approach to how we view police, but you should probably still support the reforms BLM is pushing for then.[/QUOTE] Then either you believe kneecapping is an appropriate incapacitating measure or we haven't seen the same high profile cases. And me supporting some of the reforms BLM advocates for doesn't mean that I should support the acts of the movement itself, which are basically going against the goal they claim to strive for. I'll criticize it for what it is, an ideological movement that appears to care more for the narrative it pushes than for its resolution.
Those clips of the groups marching and saying shit about killing cops, I mean fuck. They are so determined to tell everyone that their life matters, but them marching and chanting hateful shit like that only proves to me that their life matters a whole lot less than they think it does. They are such disgusting people, why can't ya just be nice to your fellow human for a change?
Man, that was some heavy shit if only everyone could realize that racism works both ways black people killing white people because they're white is just as fucking unacceptable as it is the other way round
This video tries to manipulate you to think every time a cop is shot and killed by a black guy it's inspired by BLM. With that said, it's still very sad and I wish the message of peace was found in all protests. We need criminal justice reform.
This was so painful to watch. It really angers me how quickly our country is regressing. This is why people refuse to vote for Clinton. She thinks "white people need to be talked to". [editline]25th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=shadow_oap;51104515]This video tries to manipulate you to think every time a cop is shot and killed by a black guy it's inspired by BLM. With that said, it's still very sad and I wish the message of peace was found in all protests. We need criminal justice reform.[/QUOTE] What? How did you get the impression that all the killings were inspired by BLM.
I didn't watch the video but my god I can only hope that the families of the deceased officers are being looked after. No police officer should die doing their job. It always devastates me when that happens to our Gardi - a largely unarmed police force who tirelessly work to keep us safe. The only thing I can and am willing to say is that there is a serious need for people of all races in the United States to both oppose those who would target the police for doing their job but also to come together and recognise the need for change in police training and community outreach. There are awful, awful people on both sides of the arguments killing people over race and their lives. If we work together and try to tackle the issues - of broken communities, poverty, inappropriate police training, a lack of respect for police by some people, etc. then we can ensure that people are protected and no-one innocent will die. But I'm terrified that's no longer problem. That America society and life is fundamentally broken for so many people.
[QUOTE=shadow_oap;51104515]This video tries to manipulate you to think every time a cop is shot and killed by a black guy it's inspired by BLM. With that said, it's still very sad and I wish the message of peace was found in all protests. We need criminal justice reform.[/QUOTE] Won't happen, GOP has too much of a grip on the government and they have no interest in doing so. The sad fact is, many people don't actually give a fuck about the troubles Blacks in poverty go through (see poll below), since it doesn't effect them in any way and when they (blacks) feel angry, BLM happens, making people give even less fucks about them. [QUOTE=dimitrik129;51104559]This was so painful to watch. It really angers me how quickly our country is regressing. This is why people refuse to vote for Clinton. She thinks "white people need to be talked to". [/quote] [t] https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/MJL9diB4TYgk2aHr1ChIvn3L9hw=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7085317/Trump%20and%20Clinton%20race.jpg [/t] You clearly don't know shit. Even Clinton has a worrying amount of racists voting for her. This poll combined with the video in the OP has made me feel pretty shitty, to be honest. So much ignorance and hate is rife through the western world these days, it genuinely upsets me.
[QUOTE=SebiWarrior;51102976]why can't we as a species realise that race doesn't change a fucking thing on a human level[/QUOTE] Because the human brain is literally designed to be biased and to sort things into hierarchical categories. [quote] racist trash [/quote] Does not apply to every member nor every supporter. Secondly regression arises from oppression. BLM did not promulgate in isolation, the LA, Chicago and Watts riots did not occur magically from nothing.
Could the uploader not have picked a more respectful song to play? Watching something this serious with that kinda music just takes away from it. I had no idea BLM movement was this hateful. Shit's fucked, yo.
[QUOTE=Flameon;51103447]Or you could appreciate police officers, think these executions are horrible, still support BLM, and also think that there are common-sense reforms that need to be added to reduce structural racism. Seriously, reading you all call BLM a racist organization makes me cringe 2x as hard as when I see activists chant about frying pigs in bacon.[/QUOTE] You are bad at advocation and circumferential arguing, and should probably not do it.
Can we all agree to not use the term "Common-sense" or "Common-sense reforms" because no one agrees on what this means and what other people think is 'common-sense' other people think is retarded due to political perspective? It's a meaningless term that doesn't have any value in an argument, especially when referring to policy.
[QUOTE=RaptorJGW;51103389]Honestly I would just advice anyone here to [URL="http://imgur.com/gallery/X7SQZ"]read this Imgur post about a BLM protest from the inside[/URL]. Just to restore some faith in humanity again. Because things like are just excessive generalizations. There are absolute scum in this group who have defended individuals that have been shot by the police and the police was absolutely in the right in doing so. But the opposite is also the case. It's really like AnnieOakley says. The movement exists all across of the United States. There isn't an official rite you have to pass to be able to claim your are part of the movement. You just say you support BLM and then you are BLM. And your actions will be used to judge the group as a whole. The group ranges from reasonable and considerate towards both police officers and the TRUE victims of police brutality - and lowlife thugs looking to have a reason to create chaos.[/QUOTE] Sometimes it's hard to stop and remember that most people are fundamentally good.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51104386]Then either you believe kneecapping is an appropriate incapacitating measure or we haven't seen the same high profile cases. And me supporting some of the reforms BLM advocates for doesn't mean that I should support the acts of the movement itself, which are basically going against the goal they claim to strive for. I'll criticize it for what it is, an ideological movement that appears to care more for the narrative it pushes than for its resolution.[/QUOTE] We are seeing the same cases, we disagree on if a.) they are threats to people as opposed to probable threats, and b.) if lethal force is justified. Seems to me you don't support a great deal of their policy prescriptions.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51104761]Sometimes it's hard to stop and remember that most people are fundamentally good.[/QUOTE] Not if you da popo
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