• Topless FEMEN activist ruins Christmas Mass in Cologne Cathedral
    111 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ownederd;43318813]Corrected what? I'm actually lost at what you're saying.[/QUOTE] Oh shit I'm sorry, I didn't actually notice the original post all these quotes were tied to. I didn't realise it was the post referring to the red head, not the video in the op.
[QUOTE=LarparNar;43318825]No it doesn't. Here's the definition of feminism from the oxford dictionary: "the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes." And here it is from Wikipedia: "Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.[1][2] This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment. A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.[3]" Lots of feminists don't agree with everything FEMEN does, there are even some stating exactly that in this very thread. Hell I consider myself a feminist, and I certainly don't approve of everything FEMEN does. [editline]27th December 2013[/editline] What generally accepted solutions proposed by feminism? Is this something you're making up to have an argument, or can you actually show that "feminism" as a whole has a generally accepted solution to inequality between sexes? Also feminism isn't some large movement you can be a part or not a part of, feminism in itself only means the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of equality between sexes, and if anyone thinks it means anything else then they are misinterpreting, intentionally or not, what feminism is.[/QUOTE] By generally accepted solutions I mostly meant the consensus I have seen from self proclaimed feminists on facepunch and other forums I visit. The way they talk about feminism also makes it seem like a club only ~intellectuals~ are allowed into. I'm sorry if my view of feminism may be skewed, but I can only go by what I've seen and a lot of what I've seen is appeals to emotion, aggressive confrontation with anyone who disagrees with them, and ideas I generally find naive but at the same time condescending.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43318807]Not really. I meant there are people who do not agree with the ideas of implicitly oppressing women just because you're a man. Or don't consider the generally accepted solutions proposed by feminism to be the right ones. It is possible to acknowledge inequality and wish to change it without being part of a larger movement, or agreeing with it.[/QUOTE] Feminism isn't just a movement though, or at least not a unified one. Feminism is an ideal and belief that the genders should be equal. You can hold these views and not be a part of the feminist movement or even be a self identifying feminist but they're still feminist values and it means you're a feminist. Here's the thing, nobody is going to deny that FEMEN are feminists. At least hopefully not because of these stunts (there's a whole fucking lot of shit I alluded to before that might undermine their message and mean they're not really in it for women's rights) but just because they're feminists does not make them right. Many people hold the feminism flag, it's easy to pick up and there aren't really any requirements, but since it's open to everyone there's going to be some nutters who pick it up. People shouldn't (and usually don't) say FEMEN aren't really feminists, they say they're crazy and don't want to associate with them.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43318972]By generally accepted solutions I mostly meant the consensus I have seen from self proclaimed feminists on facepunch and other forums I visit. The way they talk about feminism also makes it seem like a club only ~intellectuals~ are allowed into.[/quote] Feminism is not a club, again, see above definitions. [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43318972]I'm sorry if my view of feminism may be skewed, but I can only go by what I've seen and a lot of what I've seen is appeals to emotion, aggressive confrontation with anyone who disagrees with them, and ideas I generally find naive but at the same time condescending.[/QUOTE] You may have seen a few people who go under the label of feminism act this way, but that is no reason to think all of feminism is that way, what you're seeing is a very loud majority, probably because being extreme is one of the best ways of being heard.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43318972]By generally accepted solutions I mostly meant the consensus I have seen from self proclaimed feminists on facepunch and other forums I visit. The way they talk about feminism also makes it seem like a club only ~intellectuals~ are allowed into. [B]I'm sorry if my view of feminism may be skewed[/B], but I can only go by what I've seen and a lot of what I've seen is appeals to emotion, aggressive confrontation with anyone who disagrees with them, and ideas I generally find naive but at the same time condescending.[/QUOTE] Your views are very skewed. It's generally good practice never to preach until you know about what you're talking about from relatively unbiased sources so that you don't wind up with egg on your face. Especially because on facepunch the opposite is also very much true. You've... never met an MRA have you?
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319001]Feminism isn't just a movement though, or at least not a unified one. Feminism is an ideal and belief that the genders should be equal. You can hold these views and not be a part of the feminist movement or even be a self identifying feminist but they're still feminist values. Here's the thing, nobody is going to deny that FEMEN are feminists. At least hopefully not because of these stunts (there's a whole fucking lot of shit I alluded to before that might undermine their message and mean they're not really in it for women's rights) but just because they're feminists does not make them right. Many people hold the feminism flag, it's easy to pick up and there aren't really any requirements, but since it's open to everyone there's going to be some nutters who pick it up. People shouldn't (and usually don't) say FEMEN aren't really feminists, they say they're crazy and don't want to associate with them.[/QUOTE] My problem is I often see more rational self proclaimed feminists defending the actions of radicals like FEMEN [i]just[/i] because they're feminists. I don't think you should support people because just of their goals, you should also approve of their actions. Compare it to the civil rights movement in America. There were millions of people in favour of equality and peaceful protest, and most of them tried to dissociate themselves from groups like the Black Panthers who ended up becoming very violent extremists. I don't see why feminists feel the need to defend everyone who raises the feminist flag regardless of their actions. [editline]27th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319026]Your views are very skewed. It's generally good practice never to preach until you know about what you're talking about from relatively unbiased sources so that you don't wind up with egg on your face. Especially because on facepunch the opposite is also very much true. You've... never met an MRA have you?[/QUOTE] I've never met one in person but I have looked at r/MensRights. Them people are crazy pants.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;43319051]My problem is I often see more rational self proclaimed feminists defending the actions of radicals like FEMEN [i]just[/i] because they're feminists. I don't think you should support people because just of their goals, you should also approve of their actions. Compare it to the civil rights movement in America. There were millions of people in favour of equality and peaceful protest, and most of them tried to dissociate themselves from groups like the Black Panthers who ended up becoming very violent extremists. I don't see why feminists feel the need to defend everyone who raises the feminist flag regardless of their actions.[/QUOTE] When. I hardly ever do. Femen is for the most part absolutely loathed juuuuuuuust about everywhere I go. I don't like them, most feminists in this thread hate them, there was like 1 dude proclaiming that they're doing a good job and he seemed more or less... high. YOU ARE OVERGENERALIZING. STOP IT.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319098]When. I hardly ever do. Femen is for the most part absolutely loathed juuuuuuuust about everywhere I go. I don't like them, most feminists in this thread hate them, there was like 1 dude proclaiming that they're doing a good job and he seemed more or less... high. YOU ARE OVERGENERALIZING. STOP IT.[/QUOTE] It used to happen quite a lot in SH, though the people who used to support them are now all permabanned and they were all jackasses in the first place. I mostly saw it on the Escapist forums, though that place has gone to shit in recent years, not that it was ever good.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319098]When. I hardly ever do. Femen is for the most part absolutely loathed juuuuuuuust about everywhere I go. I don't like them, most feminists in this thread hate them, there was like 1 dude proclaiming that they're doing a good job and he seemed more or less... high. YOU ARE OVERGENERALIZING. STOP IT.[/QUOTE] soooo what are you arguing about then?
[QUOTE=moop900;43319320]soooo what are you arguing about then?[/QUOTE] I don't know how to answer this question. I was just telling him to stop overgeneralizing all feminism. In response to the whole thread: 1. FEMEN's tactics are counter productive 2. What feminism is (not a collective movement but a belief that is adopted by people and/or movements) 3. That Janus should stop overgeneralizing based on what he hears on the Escapist forums.
[QUOTE=Viper202;43318619]I still don't see why even a little damage control isn't called for when sub-groups like these take a steaming shit on everyone's impression of your Movement.[/QUOTE] Because damage control would be pointless/counter-productive. People who would use Femen as generalizations for femenism would ignore any sort of damage control. If it wasn't Femen, it would be some other feminists that would be used as generalizations because there is a wide range of feminists.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319359]I don't know how to answer this question. I was just telling him to stop overgeneralizing all feminism. In response to the whole thread: 1. FEMEN's tactics are counter productive 2. What feminism is (not a collective movement but a belief that is adopted by people and/or movements) 3. That Janus should stop overgeneralizing based on what he hears on the Escapist forums.[/QUOTE] good, Now that its been said. stop.
[QUOTE=moop900;43319433]good, Now that its been said. stop.[/QUOTE] Someone's pissed in your Cheerios. Maybe it was FEMEN. Was it FEMEN?
No just the thought of the first two threads in the video section being about feminism/gender debate makes me sad.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43319428] If it wasn't Femen, it would be some other feminists that would be used as generalizations because there is a wide range of feminists.[/QUOTE] It doesn't even have to be a named group of individual. The Tumblr Strawman is always on tap to generalize people.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;43319528]Someone's pissed in your Cheerios. Maybe it was FEMEN. Was it FEMEN?[/QUOTE] :(
You really don't want to associate yourself with any group of people. Make your views and your opinions your own, otherwise you suffer what I like to refer to as the "Man Covered in Shit" syndrome (there's probably a better name for it, and it's from Yahtzee's Let's Play Podcast hybrid thingy) where you may have the best argument in the world as to why your group's goals or values are the best or morally right, but then a man covered in shit will come along and say "I agree with this person!" and people will only remember your group as being full of men covered in shit.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;43318500]mostly because "the movement" isn't some organization you sign up for. there's no feminism overlords that are trying to make some decree separating themselves from FEMEN. you've probably learned about this shit in middle/high school. do you support equal rights between genders? you're a feminist. there, you didn't have to join a club, you didn't have to sign something with your blood, and you didn't even have to buy a fucking tshirt. there's other sub-groups that identify as feminists, but they do not represent the entirety of the feminist movement [I]regardless of whether you agree with them or not.[/I] i'm on the fence when it comes to FEMEN, because they're going out and making huge headlines on the news but they're also kind of violent. i don't blame them, though.[/QUOTE] Part of the reason why feminism is associated with crazies like in OP is because sane people within the movement don't separate themselves from the crazies, and according to you, they even can't. And you don't need an "overlord" or whatever to make an official statement. You just need people doing that on the individual level. Just look at all these people in this thread saying that they support gender equality but dislike FEMEN. They all get it. Why can't you? [QUOTE=Viper202;43318619]I still don't see why even a little damage control isn't called for when sub-groups like these take a steaming shit on everyone's impression of your Movement.[/QUOTE] Because some people's feeble minds can't comprehend that you can disagree with a feminist without supporting patriarchy.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;43308296]She's obviously mentally unhealthy/on drugs[/QUOTE] Feminism, it's called Feminism.
[QUOTE=HerrWolf;43322610]Feminism, it's called Feminism.[/QUOTE] im quick to jump on the hate bandwagon but this is completely different, femen is psychotic tier
[QUOTE=Pelican;43322625]im quick to jump on the hate bandwagon but this is completely different, femen is psychotic tier[/QUOTE] Like how Greenpeace is at the nutty end of the environmentalist scale. And as such managed to tarnish the general cause of polluting less and promoting more efficient and less polluting energy, food and resource sources.
[QUOTE=Lord Fear;43308666]According to the german wiki page about her (her name is Josephine Witt) she did it: According to her, the action was directed against "the power monopoly of the Catholic Church."[/QUOTE] yea bare tits and flailing around like a lifeless corpse is definitely the best way to prove this point, wouldn't go about it any other way really.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.