Transgenderism, should it be accepted or not? - General

[QUOTE=Pudding~;44294497]Oh, her face could easily be either male or female -- it's a very gender neutral face.[/QUOTE] That's called androginy, I'm sure I already talked about that. [QUOTE=Bordellimies;44294454]That's a valid point, he might not have the right to demand strangers to treat him like a man if they don't know whether he is male or not. But does that still give you, or other people, the right to judge him based on his looks?[/QUOTE] No one is judging him. People just say what they see. [QUOTE=Paige;44294473]get back to me on that when there's plenty of scientific and medical documents and studies on people of one ethnicity being born feeling as though they're a different ethnicity inside and then experiencing such a crippling depression and anxiety over it that it becomes its own classification and receives its own treatment. stop with the shitty strawman. its pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. you don't just "identify" as a woman or man to be one, you are born with a set gender regardless of your body and that's it.[/QUOTE] My grandfather was born in Spain but he identifies himself as Leonise, not Castillian. Do you mean to rob him from his ethinic identity?

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294561]My grandfather was born in Spain but he identifies himself as Leonise, not Castillian. Do you mean to rob him from his ethinic identity?[/QUOTE] Being born somewhere is not the same as being fucking transgender holy shit stop for the love of all that is fucking holy with your pathetic attempt at "debating"

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294206]Do you even look like a woman? Can other people identify you as a woman? Human decency is dictated by culture. In feldal japan, human decency was decaptating a honorable man during sepuku.[/quote] What does cultural difference have to do with any of this? Especially when it's not even from the same century. And for you information it doesn't matter how I look. But you tell me: [url]http://imgur.com/UAqdDk6[/url] Even if you think I don't that doesn't mean anything. A lot of transwomen go through the whole 9 yards and don't pass that well. That doesn't make them less of a woman. To say that people don't need to respect me is just because I don't look the way I feel is stupid. Plain and simple.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294561]That's called androginy, I'm sure I already talked about that. [/QUOTE] Oh, so you're saying there is a precedent for you being unable to tell a persons gender? Huh. And what do you call them, then?

[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44294588]What does cultural difference have to do with any of this? Especially when it's not even from the same century. [/QUOTE] Regarding human decency, a culture can mean the world of difference. [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44294588] And for you information it doesn't matter how I look. But you tell me: [url]http://imgur.com/UAqdDk6[/url] Even if you think I don't that doesn't mean anything. A lot of transwomen go through the whole 9 yards and don't pass that well. That doesn't make them less of a woman. To say that people don't need to respect me is just because I don't look the way I feel is stupid. Plain and simple.[/QUOTE] If it doesn't mean anything why make a fuss about it? I can clearly see your male traces. If you think saying what I see is disrecting you, you need to change reallity. [QUOTE=Paige;44294584]Being born somewhere is not the same as being fucking transgender holy shit stop for the love of all that is fucking holy with your pathetic attempt at "debating"[/QUOTE] Is that so? Look up places like the Basque Country and you'll see that is much like being transgender.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294684]Regarding human decency, a culture can mean the world of difference.[/quote] That... doesn't make your post sensical. What does seppuku and decapitation have to do with respecting one's gender identity? [quote]If it doesn't mean anything why make a fuss about it? I can clearly see your male traces. If you think saying what I see is disrecting you, you need to change reallity.[/quote] Because you said, and I quote: [quote]Yes, I have never objected to that. The problem is, if I people don't identify you as a woman, you have no right to demand that you're treated as a woman.[/quote] That's disrespect. You're not respecting someone's identity because they don't look a certain way, so you think it's okay to call them a man just because they don't look the part. And guess what? It's not okay. By the logic I have every right to call you/treat you like an idiot and a faggot just because I believe you to "look" like both. And you have no right to say otherwise.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294684]Is that so? Look up places like the Basque Country and you'll see that is much like being transgender.[/QUOTE] I looked it up, and no it doesn't seem like transgenderism.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44293720]If you need medical treatment to have a mental health it's psychological illness. But I'm not the one sayint it, you are.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Alice3173;44285643]Also note that it's a medical disorder not a disease. The DSM-V is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-V]The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition[/url] meaning it's not really for diseases.[/QUOTE] No, she's flat out right and that's fact. [QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294012]The problem is, if I people don't identify you as a woman, you have no right to demand that you're treated as a woman.[/QUOTE] So (assuming you are a male) if I choose to start identifying you as a woman just because I have the right to identify you how I want then you have no right whatsoever to demand otherwise? No, that's flat out idiotic. [QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294347]I can concede on this point. Because if identifying as a woman is all it takes to be a woman, I can just as well identify myself as a black.[/QUOTE] No, you cannot. You are treating it as a choice which it is not.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294561] No one is judging him. People just say what they see. [/QUOTE] The same idiotic concept could be applied in other ways to a ridiculous extent. This could be used to assume racial superiority, or hell, even equal people to equal pigs for the sake of consumption of their flesh. Sound insane? And yet, your idea of how SOMEONE APPEARS TO SOMEONE is based on the point that appearance decides the person.

[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;44294762]I looked it up, and no it doesn't seem like transgenderism.[/QUOTE] Basque search for self-determinism is much like the transgender search for self-determinism. [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44294722]That... doesn't make your post sensical. What does seppuku and decapitation have to do with respecting one's gender identity?[/QUOTE] While it may seem that human decency dictates that I should act in one way, human decency is relative to culture. [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;44294722] Because you said, and I quote: That's disrespect. You're not respecting someone's identity because they don't look a certain way, so you think it's okay to call them a man just because they don't look the part. And guess what? It's not okay. By the logic I have every right to call and treat you an idiot and a faggot just because I believe you to "look like both."[/QUOTE] YES you finally understood. Because you perceive as an idiot and a faggot it doesn't matter how I perceive myself or how other perceive me to you. That's YOUR perception and it's just as valid as anyone else's.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;44294814]Basque search for self-determinism is much like the transgender search for self-determinism.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]It states that nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no external compulsion or interference[/QUOTE] You're going to have to explain your comparison better. I don't see the relation.

[QUOTE=Krooms;44290644]It means I don't mind you doing whatever you want in public or in home or just as a person in general: being gay shouting you're gay being transgendered wearing brony tshirt think you're an animal having buttsex in front of me but I don't want to be friends with or talk to you. that goes for everything from transgenderism to being a heroin addict no I'm not comparing the two, I'm conveying a spectrum from one end to the other that consists of many other things [editline]wat[/editline] also please don't get tumblr with me and act like using a derogatory term, in any context, is even remotely offensive offense is subjective and if you choose to be offended by my shiton online text, then that's your own issue to deal with. all I think about when I say faggoty is a tree with rainbow leaves so relax mate, it's cool[/QUOTE] Offensiveness is subjective, yes, but that doesn't exclude you from your actions. If you experience any real-world human interaction you would know you're not gonna get far if you adopt a shit attitude in the name of subjective opinion, because people are still going to be offended. I'm not saying you should care, I know you won't. I can tell you're that kind of guy. Basically, you're allowed to be a dick but it doesn't mean it's okay to be a dick (not saying you're a dick, it's an analogy). Also, if getting "tumblr with you" means me asking you to respect others then that's fine by me, even though I despise that website. Lastly, might I ask as to why you wouldn't be friends with someone because they're LGBT? Just curious.

Yeah, it should be accepted, but I dont think they have the right to be offended when someone asks or mistakes their gender. It's simply unrealistic to expect everyone in society to know what YOU are.

[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;44306197]Yeah, it should be accepted, but I dont think they have the right to be offended when someone asks or mistakes their gender. It's simply unrealistic to expect everyone in society to know what YOU are.[/QUOTE] I talked to alot of transgender people and none of them got offended when that happened. They for the most part know it was a mistake and it's hard to grasp the idea of it. When you see transgender people getting offended over that, it's the minority getting offended for the majority.

I'm curious how people who are not transgendered feel about dating a transgender post-op. I have a couple of transgendered friends and I'm completely okay with it but I can't imagine myself dating somebody who switched. I don't want to think that way, and I feel horrible that I do. I don't see my transgendered friends as any different but when I think about it weirds me out. I suppose if I did find out somebody I was dating had a sex change and I really liked em I might feel differently. Who knows!?

I have no qualms with people living the way they feel, but to me, your gender is determined purely by your genitals. You have a penis, you are a man, a vagina, you're a woman. As for people's sexuality, I could care less, it's wide spectrum, decide who you are and be comfortable with it. Having known transgendered people, it's very confusing at first as to how you should refer to someone who wears a dress, has long hair, wears makeup but clearly has an Adam's apple. I would simply say, "her" since that's how I believe that person wants to be perceived. This person also had breast implants and was a post-op male to female. For all intents and purposes, they were a female and that's how I referred to her. It's no one's business to ask "What's your deal?" to someone but that's the question that is always on my mind when I encounter someone "different" not to be offensive, but out of curiosity. I want to know their story and who they define themselves as. And since I can't always hear someone's life story, I just go with the flow and let people be whoever they want.

[QUOTE=Pudding~;44292543]In countries with socialized healthcare, transgender surgeries are [I]only[/I] covered after a case has been made that proves them to be necessary for the continued emotional health of the patient. This is the same as removing a hernia, or treating any other medical illness and is not in any way special treatment. You shouldn't assume peoples gender, and if you do and you're wrong then [I]you've[/I] made a mistake and should be doing everything in your power to correct [B]your[/B] mistake. I expect people to respect my basic human needs. Simple.[/QUOTE] If she looks like a guy it is not my fault i assume him Im not saying wont correct myself, but if she aint passing, not my fault [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=omarfr;44308312]I'm curious how people who are not transgendered feel about dating a transgender post-op. I have a couple of transgendered friends and I'm completely okay with it but I can't imagine myself dating somebody who switched. I don't want to think that way, and I feel horrible that I do. I don't see my transgendered friends as any different but when I think about it weirds me out. I suppose if I did find out somebody I was dating had a sex change and I really liked em I might feel differently. Who knows!?[/QUOTE] Majority of my friends are trans, both post op or pre. I honestly do not care as long as they dont look manly (in a relarionship, sexually wise i dont like masculi ity,)

[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44309859]to me, your gender is determined purely by your genitals. You have a penis, you are a man, a vagina, you're a woman.[/QUOTE] The rest of your post is fine but you are outright wrong on this part. The difference between gender and sex is not something you can just choose. Your sex is determined by genitalia and other such physical characteristics. Your gender is determined mentally, if someone identifies as a woman then that is their gender regardless of ownership of (or lack thereof) a penis.

[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44309859]I have no qualms with people living the way they feel, but to me, your gender is determined purely by your genitals. You have a penis, you are a man, a vagina, you're a woman. As for people's sexuality, I could care less, it's wide spectrum, decide who you are and be comfortable with it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Alice3173;44314751]The rest of your post is fine but you are outright wrong on this part. The difference between gender and sex is not something you can just choose. Your sex is determined by genitalia and other such physical characteristics. Your gender is determined mentally, if someone identifies as a woman then that is their gender regardless of ownership of (or lack thereof) a penis.[/QUOTE] Also I don't think sex should be 100% determined by just genitals, for instance injuries or other problems that would require surgery to remove them. A man who loses his genitals doesn't become any less of a man.

[QUOTE=Bordellimies;44314804]Also I don't think sex should be 100% determined by just genitals, for instance injuries or other problems that would require surgery to remove them. A man who loses his genitals doesn't become any less of a man.[/QUOTE] It's not. Going only by genitalia is actually an oversimplification but in the majority of cases it does the job when explaining things. There's genitalia, some other physical characteristics such as an adam's apple, chromosomes, and things such as what hormones your body produces and the amounts of each and such too. It's just more complicated and confusing to explain all that to people is all.

Not all transgirls have a visible adams apple, chromosomes are invisible and hormones are completely changed by HRT... honestly speaking, you should just accept that some girls have a cock and that's fine.

[QUOTE=Pudding~;44315044]honestly speaking, you should just accept that some girls have a cock and that's fine.[/QUOTE] um no thats fucking retarded [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=NotYou3;44315174]um no thats fucking retarded[/QUOTE] Some girls have a cock. Some boys have a cunny. It's not hard to understand. There are girls in your life -- girls you might have been friends with for years -- who might be trans that you might never ever know about. And many of them will be pre-op or non-op, and will therefore have a cock. But they're still girls.

cunny [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Pudding~;44315246]And many of them will be pre-op or non-op, and will therefore have a cock. But they're still girls.[/QUOTE] no they arent [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] identify as what you want but at the end of the day if you have a dick you arent a girl face it [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] thats how the world works sorry to pop your fantasy world bubble but if you're a dude you're a fucking dude no matter what you identify yourself as

[QUOTE=NotYou3;44315261]cunny [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] no they arent [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] identify as what you want but at the end of the day if you have a dick you arent a girl face it [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] thats how the world works sorry to pop your fantasy world bubble but if you're a dude you're a fucking dude no matter what you identify yourself as[/QUOTE] except that having a penis isn't the number one defining tribute of being a man. same goes for being a woman. Gender and sex are different things and you'd do a good job to understand that.

'oh no this girl has a PENIS! That must mean they're actually not a girl!!!' I honestly can't believe you people still think like that. edit: just to avoid the good ole' ban here that I smell coming, I'm gonna go ahead and say something that might be construed as debating: The idea that trans folk who 'think' they're the opposite gender are people caught up in a fantasy world is old thinking. Old fashioned. It's right up there with saying gay people chose to be gay because they hated Jesus. I mean, why would you even hate Jesus? Comeon.

[QUOTE=NotYou3;44315261]cunny [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] no they arent [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] identify as what you want but at the end of the day if you have a dick you arent a girl face it [editline]22nd March 2014[/editline] thats how the world works sorry to pop your fantasy world bubble but if you're a dude you're a fucking dude no matter what you identify yourself as[/QUOTE] You're really kinda closed minded...

[QUOTE=Pudding~;44315246]Some girls have a cock. Some boys have a cunny. It's not hard to understand. There are girls in your life -- girls you might have been friends with for years -- who might be trans that you might never ever know about. And many of them will be pre-op or non-op, and will therefore have a cock. But they're still girls.[/QUOTE] id never hang out with a tranny, so let me topple that assertion right there. secondly, it'd be super easy to point out if they were pre-op or post-op, as they would just look like greasy guys. i don't know what world you think that YOU live in but when u watch anime all day and desperately yearn to be the popular anime girl (pixie in this case) it doesn't really make u any less of a nerd or any closer to your goal of being that very same animated girl [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Gimmick" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Solomon;44315325]'oh no this girl has a PENIS! That must mean they're actually not a girl!!!' I honestly can't believe you people still think like that.[/QUOTE] i honestly cant believe that anybody in their right mind wouldnt think like that

[QUOTE=second;44315371]id never hang out with a tranny, so let me topple that assertion right there. secondly, it'd be super easy to point out if they were pre-op or post-op, as they would just look like greasy guys. i don't know what world you think that YOU live in but when u watch anime all day and desperately yearn to be the popular anime girl (pixie in this case) it doesn't really make u any less of a nerd or any closer to your goal of being that very same animated girl[/QUOTE] well good to see you registired just to shit post and insult people and having been friends with a bunch of trans people in my life, I can safely say, that your summation of them is about as dead wrong as it gets. Ignorance is not bliss, it's fucking ignorance. [editline]21st March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=NotYou3;44315383]i honestly cant believe that anybody in their right mind wouldnt think like that[/QUOTE] I don't know, maybe because they realize that gender and sex isn't so simply tied and solved and they actually have something called empathy where they can understand the idea of feeling so alienated by your own body not fitting your mental body image in anyway that they realize that it is NOT THAT SIMPLE.