Transgenderism, should it be accepted or not? - General

[QUOTE=Orthodox;42340647]I won't become a cat just because I feel like one.[/QUOTE] Will you actually read a thread before posting in it?

[QUOTE=Orthodox;42340647]I'm not a cat just because I feel and dress like one.[/QUOTE] No, but you're dumb for thinking that was a clever thing to say. Like seriously, that has been said so many times. It's tiresome and stupid to even try using it as an argument against transgenderism. It doesn't work like that in the slightest, considering studies have shown trans people's brains resemble the gender they feel they are. I dunno how you would even be born with a cat's brain to make that argument slightly relevant.

[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;42341046]Like seriously, that has been said so many times. It's tiresome and stupid to even try using it as an argument against transgenderism.[/QUOTE] It's not only tiresome and stupid but the single most overused yet idiotic counter for transgenderism there is in my opinion. One that has been countered in this very thread already if I'm not mistaken. Meaning Orthodox didn't bother reading.

-meh-

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;42341155]It's even worse when you read all those recent stories of small children changing their genders when they can't even grasp the concept of it yet.[/QUOTE] I really think the one not grasping the concept is you here. You don't pick and change your gender as you please, you are born feeling some lean towards a gender or none at all I dunno. And are you saying that all of transgenderism shouldn't be accepted because you think kids don't know what they are doing? Does that like invalidate everyone over the age of 5 or something because of these kids?

[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;42341155]No. You're either born a boy or a girl. Nothing can change that.[/QUOTE] Broadly yes, that's why people who were born a girl but had the misfortune of having a boy's body and vice versa end up having to do something about it. [QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;42341155]It's even worse when you read all those recent stories of small children changing their genders when they can't even grasp the concept of it yet.[/QUOTE] Children know what gender they are very early. You don't have to understand the digestive system to know you're hungry.

i was gonna ask a question but this whole recent discussion answered it xP still though, i can't imagine what it would initially feel like trying to figure out why you dont feel right. though thanks to aspergers i was a social outcast the first 10 years of my life. so i know how that part of it can feel.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAoG8vAyzI[/media] I just added this to the OP which I think people should watch if they struggle with the idea of sex and gender being two different things.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;42348944][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXAoG8vAyzI[/media] I just added this to the OP which I think people should watch if they struggle with the idea of sex and gender being two different things.[/QUOTE] Would Rate Winner if i could xP it really is a good basic rundown of the general situation transgender individuals face, explained in a way that a lot of people who aren't well informed will have a good chunk of their question's answered.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;42327758]You kind of just refuted your own argument. Transgenderism itself is not a depression-causing agent. It's the people around them who drive them to that point with the constant ridicule.[/QUOTE] But imagine if everyone were born into a body that they were comfortable with.

[QUOTE=katbug;42349339]But imagine if everyone were born into a body that they were comfortable with.[/QUOTE] This is what cis people are pretty much.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42349442]This is what cis people are pretty much.[/QUOTE] The point of my post appears to defy you.

[QUOTE=katbug;42350126]The point of my post appears to defy you.[/QUOTE] Well, everybody isn't born into a body they are comfortable with. That is why for those people, they should be given hormones and surgery so they can be happy now that they have the body that matches them.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42350229]Well, everybody isn't born into a body they are comfortable with. That is why for those people, they should be given hormones and surgery so they can be happy now that they have the body that matches them.[/QUOTE] But imagine if they didn't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a not perfectly X or Y sex body. If we could stop it from happening in the first place, it would be great.

[QUOTE=katbug;42350269]But imagine if they didn't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a not perfectly X or Y sex body. If we could stop it from happening in the first place, it would be great.[/QUOTE] this has nothing to do with whether transgenderism should be respected

[QUOTE=katbug;42350269]But imagine if they didn't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a not perfectly X or Y sex body. If we could stop it from happening in the first place, it would be great.[/QUOTE] Yes, but as far as I am aware, this isn't happening at the moment, and there are people out there who have problems and they need help.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42350276]this has nothing to do with whether transgenderism should be respected[/QUOTE] I am responding to someone who was saying that it shouldn't be prevented if it were possible.

it'd be nice if everyone came out of the womb Blonde, Blue eyed, and German. *Sarcasm* but thats just not in the cards for science. the best we can do is improve what does work. we evolved from Blessings at church healing the sick to actual chemical compounds and procedures to healing those with ailments. and all we do is improve that further and further. its all we can do for the moment.

[QUOTE=katbug;42350323]I am responding to someone who was saying that it shouldn't be prevented if it were possible.[/QUOTE] because it's not really respecting the people who are alive today who have that condition? it's like saying they're something worth preventing from existing at all to them

[QUOTE=katbug;42350269]But imagine if they didn't have to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a not perfectly X or Y sex body. If we could stop it from happening in the first place, it would be great.[/QUOTE] There are some people who actually like being transgender, and wouldn't change it if they could, so I wouldn't be so sure of that.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;42350651]because it's not really respecting the people who are alive today who have that condition? it's like saying they're something worth preventing from existing at all to them[/QUOTE] I can see where you're coming from but I think transgender people would be reasonably split about whether it should be prevented or not if possible. Some of us would think that no one should have to go through the shit we had to go through while others will believe that it's an inherent part of you that shouldn't be changed even if possible.

for all we know its a picture of change in our natural evolution. some of the things we might see as hinderances are only such because we make them that. i have aspergers. the only thing it hindered me from doing is learning at the same pace as everyone else and getting along with the other assholes that went to school with me. otherwise i lead a normal american life, can't find work, watch breaking bad and play video games in the meantime. Most all the friends i have now share the aspergers diagnosis, some to a larger extent than myself, and they've got payin jobs or have had jobs in the past, just like any normal person. Why must transgender be so different? its technically a Issue of Brain in wrong body type disorder, its all it is. if people would stop treating it like its Taboo to be an individual, with your own unique conditions, your own life choices, and stop to learn about what it all means before jumping to any conclusions, it'd put a huge dent in how people see it in such a negative way.

-incomprehensible rant snip-

[QUOTE=Cuddly;42376624]Transgender people are normal fucking people. Fuck, how is the world so fucked? "after a botched circumcision" We really have to stop fucking doing this to baby's. Fucking world has been run by tyrants for too goddamn long. This shouldn't even have to be a discussion is my point.[/QUOTE] I'm not too sure about the point you are making.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;42376910]I'm not too sure about the point you are making.[/QUOTE] The internet has been allowing people to form a mass opinion of what morality and human rights are for 22 years now. I just feel we should be past the transgender and gay rights issues by now. It's all pre-internet stone age religious bs. I think thats what I was trying to say. >.<

They should be treated like people, they are not above people nor below people, they are people. I don't however believe they should share the same showers/restrooms with others of the opposite sex exactly. Lets say someone is believes they are a woman, if they try to go into a women's shower room with a penis hanging out it would make many of the women there uncomfortable. If that person was to have a sex change on the other hand it wouldn't be as bad, even if the women there knew that person was a male to begin with. If this was to happen the opposite way to where the female walks into the male shower room there might be a problem with the other men there. Not saying there is exactly but yeah.

[QUOTE=Sally;42383579]Lets say someone is believes they are a woman, if they try to go into a women's shower room with a penis hanging out it would make many of the women there uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] I don't get this logic. What person walks around a public restroom with their genitalia hanging out, seriously? This issue is not an issue for transgender people who actively present as their preferred gender. Mtf transgender people will be using stalls in a women's restroom, no chance of what you said happening unless there is an actual mental issue present in the person. Ftm transgender people will be using stalls unless they have had a sex change, again no issues there. The idea that transgender people are going to be going into these bathrooms and showing off their genitalia is a very flawed and nonsensical idea. I don't understand why people keep defaulting to that. The only valid reason to prevent a transgender person from using the bathroom of their preferred gender that I can possibly see is before they've transitioned since at that point by all appearances it would seem to most people like a man in the women's restroom or a woman in the men's restroom.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;42384435]I don't get this logic. What person walks around a public restroom with their genitalia hanging out, seriously?[/quote] Uh I said shower room. However that doesn't mean your point isn't valid. As I have seen people saying that they would do that in a public bathroom.

[QUOTE=Sally;42385124]Uh I said shower room. However that doesn't mean your point isn't valid. As I have seen people saying that they would do that in a public bathroom.[/QUOTE] Yes, you did say that. I managed to completely misread what you said, my mistake. I think it may be because that actually is a really common argument though. Shower room I can understand a lot more than bathroom. Myself though, I'd rather just use a private shower and avoid any issues resulting from it altogether.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;42385389] Myself though, I'd rather just use a private shower and avoid any issues resulting from it altogether.[/QUOTE] I think plenty of CIS-gendered individuals would do this too.