Kurzgesagt – Why Age? Should We End Aging Forever? - General

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52806506]And then imagine how much of that time you could spend procrastinating your learning and instead shitpost on the internet[/QUOTE] You could become the most proficient shitposter known to man.

This might be kinda dumb but I wonder if games would get made that are extremely long? 17776 touched on this but for those who didn't read it, humanity is immortal and their football games take place across multiple states and last for hundreds of years. I'm kinda curious if that would actually happen. I mean if you have all the time in the world, wouldn't our games nowadays start feeling super short? It's a weird thing to think about... :huh:

I feel like immortality would make me never want to pick up new skills and hobbies. I already get discouraged by people who have been doing something I'm attempting for 10 years or so. Imagine trying to learn a new artistic skill and comparing yourself to somebody who's been doing it for like 600 years.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;52806840]I feel like immortality would make me never want to pick up new skills and hobbies. I already get discouraged by people who have been doing something I'm attempting for 10 years or so. Imagine trying to learn a new artistic skill and comparing yourself to somebody who's been doing it for like 600 years.[/QUOTE] You got me thinking, a lot of experience "gated" stuff might be affected. Imagine a job requiring 400 years experience? :scream: We already have issues with that now.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;52806840]I feel like immortality would make me never want to pick up new skills and hobbies. I already get discouraged by people who have been doing something I'm attempting for 10 years or so. Imagine trying to learn a new artistic skill and comparing yourself to somebody who's been doing it for like 600 years.[/QUOTE] A society that knows how to do immortality would also be able to fix your easily discouraged mentality and make you not give a shit about who is better or worse than you. I feel that the whole immortality thing would also make a lot more sense if we were aware of what actually happens after death more definitively. Because after thousands of years of human civilization we still have zero fucking clue. Options such as "The afterlife exists and it's ok and you do get to live again as a human being after floating in the nether for a few decades" or "The afterlife is a demented predatory shithole where you are likely to get shoved into an underworld and fucked in the ass by malevolent entities for thousands of years, and being human was a freakishly rare lottery ticket that you will only get again in two trillion years" or "The afterlife kind of sucks terribly because being human is extremely rare and you will have to be reborn as chickens dogs and cows for millions of years before getting another human life. etc or something unexpected such as "you are already immortal and death is not what people think it is at all, and that it is more like a "start a new game" option rather than anything even remotely bad.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52806962]A society that knows how to do immortality would also be able to fix your easily discouraged mentality and make you not give a shit about who is better or worse than you. I feel that the whole immortality thing would also make a lot more sense if we were aware of what actually happens after death more definitively. Because after thousands of years of human civilization we still have zero fucking clue. Options such as "The afterlife exists and it's ok and you do get to live again as a human being after floating in the nether for a few decades" or "The afterlife is a demented predatory shithole where you are likely to get shoved into an underworld and fucked in the ass by malevolent entities for thousands of years, and being human was a freakishly rare lottery ticket that you will only get again in two trillion years" or "The afterlife kind of sucks terribly because being human is extremely rare and you will have to be reborn as chickens dogs and cows for millions of years before getting another human life. etc or something unexpected such as "you are already immortal and death is not what people think it is at all, and that it is more like a "start a new game" option rather than anything even remotely bad.[/QUOTE] I think it's pretty damn clear there's nothing before or after being alive. Death is the complete end. You as a person will cease to exist in any state when you die, as your consciousness is simply your brain. Hence why being a good person and making the most of your life is important I think the afterlife is people refusing to believe that there is an end against all rationale, since we do not want to imagine it ending.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52806974]I think it's pretty damn clear there's nothing before or after being alive. Death is the complete end. You as a person will cease to exist in any state when you die, as your consciousness is simply your brain.[/QUOTE] Well, if that is somehow the case then immortality is especially important to figure out as soon as possible. On the bright side, it can be assumed that even if no spiritual afterlife exists then purely physiological afterlife could still exist if the universe arranged its atoms in exactly the same way in which they are right now as you, which would technically mean that it's you again just way later.

But what if you are dead right now on the inside what is the meaning of life

[QUOTE=Ignhelper;52806983]But what if you are dead right now on the inside what is the meaning of life[/QUOTE] You just need to flip yourself inside out and shed yourself of dead tissue like a snake

I think we have a pretty good idea of what happens after you die, same as before you were born. You came from nothing and you return to nothing. The chemical signals and electrical impulses that propel your mind and body stop and the information and energy that was your person descends into entropy. If I could live forever in good health I would, because why not? We can always choose to die afterwards.

[QUOTE=slapdown3;52807003]I think we have a pretty good idea of what happens after you die, same as before you were born. You came from nothing and you return to nothing. The chemical signals and electrical impulses that propel your mind and body stop and the information and energy that was your person descends into entropy. If I could live forever in good health I would, because why not? We can always choose to die afterwards.[/QUOTE] At the same time it is fully possible that a crapton of things happen after death, and that science simply does not have the right instruments to measure such fine fabrics of reality yet. Same possible reason why we never definitively catch ghosts, we may simply be using a magnifying lense where an electron microscope is needed.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807028]At the same time it is fully possible that a crapton of things happen after death, and that science simply does not have the right instruments to measure such fine fabrics of reality yet. Same possible reason why we never definitively catch ghosts, we may simply be using a magnifying lense where an electron microscope is needed.[/QUOTE] I find it funny that people so easily refute the existence of god but then come up with this obscure reasoning to hide from the reality of death.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52807031]I find it funny that people so easily refute the existence of god but then come up with this obscure reasoning to hide from the reality of death.[/QUOTE] How exactly is it obscure? Why should we be complacent towards death? Why do you assume that the same people who easily refute the existence of god simultaneously hide from death? Is fully accepting the notion of death being the absolute end and barring it from all inquiry the only reasonable solution to you? Why are you mixing curiosity with cowardice?

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807050]How exactly is it obscure? Why should we be complacent towards death? Why do you assume that the same people who easily refute the existence of god simultaneously hide from death? Is fully accepting the notion of death being the absolute end and barring it from all inquiry the only reasonable solution to you?[/QUOTE] I'm not even directing it squarely at you, it just comes up a lot with people I know and see who are athiest and simultaneously say things like this about death. To answer the last bit of your post, barring inquiry is not my intent, I'm just highlighting that it is the same sort of scientific rationale which refutes god that also refutes an afterlife.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807050]How exactly is it obscure? Why should we be complacent towards death? Why do you assume that the same people who easily refute the existence of god simultaneously hide from death? Is fully accepting the notion of death being the absolute end and barring it from all inquiry the only reasonable solution to you? Why are you mixing curiosity with cowardice?[/QUOTE] By all accounts it's "fully possible" that a god does exist, but the "proper" reason for not believing in a god is because there's no evidence that one exists. Same goes for ghosts, unicorns and teapots that orbit the sun.

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52806974]I think it's pretty damn clear there's nothing before or after being alive. Death is the complete end. You as a person will cease to exist in any state when you die, as your consciousness is simply your brain. Hence why being a good person and making the most of your life is important I think the afterlife is people refusing to believe that there is an end against all rationale, since we do not want to imagine it ending.[/QUOTE] i don't believe in an afterlife, but i take issue with death being treated as the [U]absolute[/U] end. To me, death is your mind and body breaking down, but still existing in some form, even though it would be in a state where I can't experience it, or anything else, but that doesn't mean i won't stop existing.

[QUOTE=Blazedol;52807122]i don't believe in an afterlife, but i take issue with death being treated as the [U]absolute[/U] end. To me, death is your mind and body breaking down, but still existing in some form, even though it would be in a state where I can't experience it, or anything else, but that doesn't mean i won't stop existing.[/QUOTE] Your perspective seems to be slightly paradoxical, unless you mean not believing in an afterlife in the sense of it being like a stereotypical dude walking around.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807133]Your perspective seems to be slightly paradoxical, unless you mean not believing in an afterlife in the sense of it being like a stereotypical dude walking around.[/QUOTE] it depends on your definition of life, i feel. I don't think most people would consider it an afterlife though, since you can't think or anything.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807028]At the same time it is fully possible that a crapton of things happen after death, and that science simply does not have the right instruments to measure such fine fabrics of reality yet. Same possible reason why we never definitively catch ghosts, we may simply be using a magnifying lense where an electron microscope is needed.[/QUOTE] Many things may in fact happen after you die but saying "because science may not know" is not an answer. You go off of what the model currently presents you, and you base your understanding off of that. Implying that there are alternate dimensions immeasurable/incomprehensible to but only the dead is a leap in logic that I cannot back. We don't know=/=there must be an afterlife. Here's what we can observe==what we can conclude. Your psyche and your body are inseparable, without the chemical machine that is your brain you do not exist. The difference between the living and the observable dead is quite literally electricity and chemicals in your head, the soul has no weight. I will conclude by saying that information cannot be destroyed and that there may be a possibility that our existence is a part of something that we find impossible to understand, but if it is then what's the point? If it's not comparable to what we understand then is it really an afterlife? live in the now, and live forever if you can.

[QUOTE=slapdown3;52807186]Many things may in fact happen after you die but saying "because science may not know" is not an answer. You go off of what the model currently presents you, and you base your understanding off of that. Implying that there are alternate dimensions immeasurable/incomprehensible to but only the dead is a leap in logic that I cannot back. We don't know=/=there must be an afterlife. Here's what we can observe==what we can conclude. Your psyche and your body are inseparable, without the chemical machine that is your brain you do not exist. The difference between the living and the observable dead is quite literally electricity and chemicals in your head, the soul has no weight. I will conclude by saying that information cannot be destroyed and that there may be a possibility that our existence is a part of something that we find impossible to understand, but if it is then what's the point? If it's not comparable to what we understand then is it really an afterlife? live in the now, and live forever if you can.[/QUOTE] It may be fully comprehensible and even to some degree comparable to living life, but not yet knowable. I do not believe that a leap in logic has been taken, but rather a hypothetical possibility has been considered. I am not asking people to place their actual faith on the idea that afterlife exists and has not been correctly measured yet, rather I am inquiring in the potential of it. I fully agree with the notion that our living existence has to be secured to the greatest possible degree regardless of what we may or may not discover about what happens afterwards, especially given the chilling possibility that nothing really does, once again mentioning the cheeky hypothesis that purely physiological reincarnation may exist even with zero trans-dimensional counterparts.

What's with all the posts about existential dread? I don't get any 'existential dread' from watching either the CGP Grey video or the In a Nutshell video. While their claims that we are genuinely might be the first immortals were unknown to me, if true, I'd gladly take it in a heartbeat. These videos are persuasive as to why I should so I'm just sitting there like, yeah, no, I already know dude. Genuinely if you have the option, why die? There is no real reason. A nature argument is bullshit; we already live unnaturally long lives. You owe your whole life to things that are 'unnatural'. It's not even like nature is a cognizant entity, 'nature' isn't a god, being, or even anything united. It doesn't [I]care[/I] what you do. If we eliminated all nature it's not like nature would give a shit. It doesn't have a final word on morality. It isn't even an 'it'. It's literally just things that are out of our control or aren't created by us. Or, hell, from an outsider's perspective humanity is just another animal capable of creating tools but our constructions, being animals, are not any less 'nature' than a bird's nest or a beaver's dam. The meaning argument is bullshit too. Being immortal doesn't equate to being invulnerable. Unless one were to have nanomachines spread across the planet and prevent anything bad from happening to a person, we can't live in a 17776 perma-stasis. I remember reading a short story about this where humanity became immortal and so people split in to two different philosophies. One group did basically nothing ever because if you've got infinite time, hey, fuck it, why do something productive now? The other group did [I]everything,[/I] obsessively. They learned as much and did as much as they possibly could. While I'd definitely adopt the attitude of the latter if I had to choose between, I don't think either is entirely realistic. People don't realize it but they already live as though they are immortal, for the most part. While you can remind yourself of your mortality, we're just not programmed to live in a constant state of awareness of that. It'd fuck you up. So I think the simplest answer is that while it would be a mindfuck to find out that you have no ceiling on your lifespan, you would probably just return to doing what you would be doing anyway. You could argue that the lack of a time limit provides for a lack of motivation, but here's the thing. You have a time limit. Assuming nothing changes which I think is unlikely, everyone here has roughly 60-80 years max to get everything they want to get done, well, done, before they're dead. That might seem like a fine amount of time but in comparison to a potential eternity on offer it's barely anything. And yet, you live with this amount of time, every day, and probably dick around a lot. Hell, not even necessarily that. You might [I]not[/I] live your full lifespan. Your life could be gone fucking [I]today.[/I] Tons of people die every day, young, because of things that they just cannot predict. At any moment, some guy can burst in your house, shoot you, or you could die in your sleep of a sudden unpredictable heart attack. You might well contract cancer, or fall down and bust your head. Not only do you have a time limit, but life could be yanked well short of that at [I]any[/I] moment. So my point is, since you do have a time limit and then some, if you aren't pursuing your dreams and what you want out of life [I]right now,[/I] exactly what is immortality going to change? Time is already not motivating you. 'Time' only motivates people who either discipline themselves to frequently remind themselves of the current inevitability of death (a small SMALL portion of the population), or people who have been told that they have a year or a few years to live, which is not enough time to fulfill their dreams for the most part. Besides, if you think [I]without[/I] the threat of death, absolute finality and erasure of your existence, if you can't see yourself finding any reason to do anything you want to do if that were gone, maybe you don't have the best mindset as it is? I mean, I'm a bit of a hypocrite because I frequently meditate on my own mortality to push me to do what I want in life because fuck it, but you shouldn't [I]need[/I] death and neither should I. By turning down the chance to live potentially magnitudes longer than you would otherwise, you are denying yourself the opportunity to do millions more things than you could possibly do right now in your own life span. The chance to travel in space. The chance to make millions of works of art, if not billions. The chance to pursue any talent, any education sect, that you want, as hard as you want, for as long as you want. The chance to be a pianist guitar playing artist painter scientist mathematician engineer. Or just to be able to exist to enjoy chocolate milkshakes for the rest of time. In favor of nonexistence which will bring no satisfaction to you, or dissatisfaction, just all encompassing nothingness. You won't even be able to reflect on your life because you will no longer exist to remember it. All because you think if you were immortal you would have a shitty mindset. In short you're being a fucking dumbass

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52807219]real long[/QUOTE] This is an excellent post. Those proposing that they would simply get bored or tired of experiencing life and wish to die anyway simply cannot make that assumption on the basis of the information we have today- information surrounding a limited lifespan. Often we're expected to do only a couple of things with our lives because they're so short, but if we were to have, effectively, all of eternity available to us to expand, grow and accumulate knowledge without the constraints of a mere century we could unleash within ourselves the limitless potential that we are already capable of, but not expected to pursue. In the Bronze Age, the average life expectancy was 26 years. That would leave, if they were to live in a country with decent healthcare today, a gap of 57 years on average. That's slightly over 3 times the life expectancy of a bronze age individual. Technology did not move nearly as quickly in 300 years during ~3300 BC as it does today, but everybody suddenly living an extra 57 years during those times would have been unimaginable. Imagine living three times as long as you do know. If you're finding it hard to imagine what you would do with the extra 200 or 300 years, it's simply due to the fact that the information available to you concerning what life in the years 2117, 2217 or 2317, could be like is extremely limited. If you were born in the 18th century and lived until 2017, you would have seen, among many others, the invention of the piano(the freakin' piano!), the steam engine, the telegraph, submarines, bicycles, the smallpox vaccine, the battery, cameras, the internal combustion engine, electric motors, airships, automobiles, machine guns, airplanes, radios, helicopters, the theory of relativity, televisions, rockets, antibiotics, the power of the atom, the first computers, humanity reaching space and landing on the mono, modern computers, printers and displays, the internet, and a stunning plethora of inventions that arrived post-2000. All well within your lifespan. This list merely scratches the surface. The pace of technology is only accelerating, as is our understanding of the world around us. There is so much to learn and experience and thrive upon- an amount of information and potential to experience that increases every day- so to suggest that one could achieve eternal boredom while attaining immortality in the golden age of humanity is shortsighted at best.

Even if things SOMEHOW got boring eventually, it would probably be possible to use a selective amnesia device to refresh things, and store the particularly old memories in some kind of an archive to keep things fresh.

Even if things did get boring, because you saw literally everything under the sun, you could just have legal euthanasia. If you truly didn't want to be alive at least you could, y'know, determine when that is, instead of just having it be random whether you want it or not.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52807444]Even if things did get boring, because you saw literally everything under the sun, you could just have legal euthanasia. If you truly didn't want to be alive at least you could, y'know, determine when that is, instead of just having it be random whether you want it or not.[/QUOTE] It could always be possible to get drafted to the skeleton war afterwards, which is especially appropriate given the quantity of skull related avatars in this thread.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;52807456]It could always be possible to get drafted to the skeleton war afterwards, which is especially appropriate given the quantity of skull related avatars in this thread.[/QUOTE] It's spooktober my man

[QUOTE=Natrox;52803070]I mean, if everyone were to be immortal and also reproduce at the same rate. The world would get overpopulated after several generations.[/QUOTE] Allow me to address the anxieties underlying your concerns, rather than try to answer every possible question you might have left unvoiced. First, let us consider the fact that for the first time ever, as a species, immortality is in our reach. This simple fact has far-reaching implications. It requires radical rethinking and revision of our genetic imperatives. It also requires planning and forethought that run in direct opposition to our neural pre-sets. I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct. Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species. Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire and started at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls. But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition. Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight. Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species. Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them. Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity. Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress. Instinct, therefore, must be expunged. It must be fought tooth and nail, beginning with the basest of human urges: The urge to reproduce.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;52807787]Allow me to address the anxieties underlying your concerns, rather than try to answer every possible question you might have left unvoiced. First, let us consider the fact that for the first time ever, as a species, immortality is in our reach. This simple fact has far-reaching implications. It requires radical rethinking and revision of our genetic imperatives. It also requires planning and forethought that run in direct opposition to our neural pre-sets. I find it helpful at times like these to remind myself that our true enemy is Instinct. Instinct was our mother when we were an infant species. Instinct coddled us and kept us safe in those hardscrabble years when we hardened our sticks and cooked our first meals above a meager fire and started at the shadows that leapt upon the cavern's walls. But inseparable from Instinct is its dark twin, Superstition. Instinct is inextricably bound to unreasoning impulses, and today we clearly see its true nature. Instinct has just become aware of its irrelevance, and like a cornered beast, it will not go down without a bloody fight. Instinct would inflict a fatal injury on our species. Instinct creates its own oppressors, and bids us rise up against them. Instinct tells us that the unknown is a threat, rather than an opportunity. Instinct slyly and covertly compels us away from change and progress. Instinct, therefore, must be expunged. It must be fought tooth and nail, beginning with the basest of human urges: The urge to reproduce.[/QUOTE] We must unquestionably defeat the urge of jerking our hand away from a hot frying pan, and instead observe with pride as it gradually becomes medium rare.

[QUOTE=kariko;52806956]You got me thinking, a lot of experience "gated" stuff might be affected. Imagine a job requiring 400 years experience? :scream: We already have issues with that now.[/QUOTE] "Experience with building Tutankhamun's grave required"

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52807945]"Experience with building Tutankhamun's grave required"[/QUOTE] Experience with building Tutankhuman's grave while being Tutankhuman himself required"