It's not just the "graphics", it's the whole style of the game and i don't know if i can stand a 40k game where terminators move like fucking ballerinas, it feels completely off. I have nothing against a cartoonish style but 40k just isn't the setting for it.
And are the lascannons really firing continuous beams now ? when did that happen ?
[QUOTE=honestfam;50517892]It's not just the "graphics", it's whole style of the game and i don't know if i can stand a 40k game where terminators move like fucking ballerinas, it feels completely off. I have nothing against a cartoonish style but 40k just isn't the setting for it.
And are the lascannons really firing continuous beams now ? when did that happen ?[/QUOTE]
What you're seeing is probably meltas not lascannons.
[QUOTE=duckmaster;50517938]What you're seeing is probably meltas not lascannons.[/QUOTE]
They seem to have that characteristic lasgun tip and meltas are more like a close range blast of heat, not like that at all.
It looks like DoW2 but with more units. Can't say i'm not a little disappointed.
It looks way too generic and like every other MOBA out there or Starcraft. While Dawn of War and Dawn of war 2 had totally different art style, they were bother very 40k art styles. Dawn of war's art style was made to emulate the table top models, in both texture and proportion, and they did that quite well. Dawn of war 2 was meant to have a more realistic art style, mimicking the art of Black Library more.
Dawn of War 3, has a bland and generic, minimalist cartoon aesthetic for the sake of accessibility. In one of the gameplay commentary they talked about how detail was removed in order to make the game more easily visible. It's utterly bland and devoid of detail, which is entirely unlike Relic, who have always had a love of visuals as well style.
The fact that the game style has been changed for accessibility means they've completely alienated the core fanbase, and instead want to pander to the MOBA crowd.
[QUOTE=Gunner th;50518046]The fact that the game style has been changed for accessibility means they've completely alienated the core fanbase, and instead want to pander to the MOBA crowd.[/QUOTE]
The core fanbase aren't people who get triggered because they went for clean graphics. Especially not people who think DoW is anything like a MOBA or like Starcraft. (Not to mention SC is one game and RTS is a dying breed)
Relic has it's own take of the genre that focuses on squad based combat with the core gameplay centering around capturing territory and capture points as opposed to traditional RTS attempting to cripple the enemy economy directly.
[QUOTE=Naught;50517325]dawn of war 1 and 2 both have very different art directions. people actually complained a shitload when dow 2 footage was released because they thought it was too shiny and not dark and grim enough.[/quote]
Difference between DoW 1 and 2's visuals is less to do with art direction proper and more to do with engine. The styles in which models, environments etc are designed have the same core, gritty, weary industrial motifs.
[quote]and in terms of larger squads I think they're just talking about sheer squad count. even the early level battles that they showed had a shitload more squads than dow 2 does on max squad cap. in terms of comparing it to dow 1, I dunno. I didnt like 10 man marine squads at all simply because of the awful pathfinding, god those IG squads getting stuck everywhere...[/QUOTE]
Well it says "larger squads" quite clearly in relation to cover and garrison ability in ashxu's post so IDK. However, it's kind of unfair associating bigger squad sizes with DoW1, since that game had a really old system that grouped units into rigid formations, none of Relic's games since then featured that. First CoH had squads of max 7(?) guys, further increased in various mods, and they navigated the terrain just fine, each soldier being more or less independent from the squad's "centre of mass".
[QUOTE=Gunner th;50518046]The fact that the game style has been changed for accessibility means they've completely alienated the core fanbase, and instead want to pander to the MOBA crowd.[/QUOTE]
the fanbase seems divided on it. half of them dont really care or like the new look, and half are saying its the death of a franchise/a game they wont play. how the fuck is a change in graphics appealing to a moba crowd? is starcraft 2 appealing to the moba crowd? dawn of war 2 is more appealing because of the very small squad counts with lots of micromanagement to keep them alive. and dawn of war 3 looks a lot more like the tabletop compared to dawn of war 1 units. plus, theres plenty of detail on most of the models. but it does look like they're missing some on, say, the terminators. you cant honestly say that gabe and the knight are utterly bland and devoid of detail.
[QUOTE=Naught;50517182]how so? are the tabletop miniatures against the artstyle as well?
[t]https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120101153_StartCollectingSpaceMarines01.jpg[/t]
because this looks really dark and gritty. no, it looks cartoony as shit. a warhammer game can look cartoony and still look good, but people arent going to go past it not having enough brown and grey filters.[/QUOTE]
And I would say Dawn of War 2 translated it pretty well.
[t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/d__/images/d/d2/Dow2r_ultramarines_dlc_04.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110806142130&path-prefix=dow[/t]
And well, dark and gritty is something of a staple in 40k. I think its pretty easy to see the contrast with the new marines compared to the style shown in this Ultramarines DLC picture. What I saw in the Dawn of War 3 was overly goofy animations and an art style that doesn't reflect Warhammer at all. I find it rather hard to believe that the direction they are going they can even capture something like a heroic last stand.
Skip to something like 14:25 on this video and watch it for a minute or so. Once again, comparing it to the Dawn of War 3 gameplay, this battle looks absolutely brutal. The units in Dawn of War 3 seem squishy and almost weightless.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxNihrj3-EI[/media]
I really miss the base building aspect from DoW 1.
[QUOTE=CupUp;50518629]I really miss the base building aspect from DoW 1.[/QUOTE]
well dawn of war 3 is going to have base building so you're set there.
I take it we're not gonna be getting Necron's in this one either...
Oh well, guess I can just keep playing Dark Crusade.
why would you expect to have Necrons at launch in anything? they are not a posterboy race.
[QUOTE=Firespray;50518582]And I would say Dawn of War 2 translated it pretty well.
[t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/d__/images/d/d2/Dow2r_ultramarines_dlc_04.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110806142130&path-prefix=dow[/t]
And well, dark and gritty is something of a staple in 40k. I think its pretty easy to see the contrast with the new marines compared to the style shown in this Ultramarines DLC picture. What I saw in the Dawn of War 3 was overly goofy animations and an art style that doesn't reflect Warhammer at all. I find it rather hard to believe that the direction they are going they can even capture something like a heroic last stand.
Skip to something like 14:25 on this video and watch it for a minute or so. Once again, comparing it to the Dawn of War 3 gameplay, this battle looks absolutely brutal. The units in Dawn of War 3 seem squishy and almost weightless.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxNihrj3-EI[/media][/QUOTE]
All the units completely wash together and make an unwatchable mess to anyone but the players or people who played the game.
In starcraft 2 its very clear what every unit is, and you will easily figure what they do by watching the match, I think they are possibly striving for that with DoW3.
They said they're striving for clear visibility of units, that's one of their main goals. However, it's coming at the expense of detail. Accessibility is what they're shooting for. And since this is the gaming industry, accessibility usually means simplifying as much as possible, from visuals, to game play, to tactics, and it's never for the betterment.
They're trying to target the Starcraft and MOBA audience, and not necessarily as players. From all I've heard and read, they're shooting for the fact, APM focused style of spectator favored game play that goes on in Esports or competitive focused titles.
So the end result, is they're trying to make this SEGA's DOTA, or LoL, or Starcraft, or HOTS.
[QUOTE=Gunner th;50521996]They said they're striving for clear visibility of units, that's one of their main goals. However, it's coming at the expense of detail. Accessibility is what they're shooting for. And since this is the gaming industry, accessibility usually means simplifying as much as possible, from visuals, to game play, to tactics, and it's never for the betterment.
They're trying to target the Starcraft and MOBA audience, and not necessarily as players. From all I've heard and read, they're shooting for the fact, APM focused style of spectator favored game play that goes on in Esports or competitive focused titles.
So the end result, is they're trying to make this SEGA's DOTA, or LoL, or Starcraft, or HOTS.[/QUOTE]
stop saying this is a fucking moba. you know NOTHING about dawn of war.
Relic RTS was never about 100000000000 APM.
this just in. making people who dont play the game be able to understand things makes the game a moba. making things clear makes it a moba. making the game streamlined and smoothed makes it a moba. making things a moba is a fucking buzzword at this point.
I get it, love or hate the new graphics. I personally think it's fine. It will help everyone in the long run see what the fuck is happening as when you have a ton of the same units it gets difficult to see what's happening. If you play as USF in CoH2 and have a ton of Riflemen you'll know this feeling. I like the DoW2 aesthetic but this is no big loss. I'm actually concerned about the gameplay.
They are streamlining the cover system. On paper that seems like dumbing it down but the squad size is larger so it won't make sense for a ton of units to be huddling around a few lines of sandbags. This will probably mean buildings are either limited to large ones or removed too. But I recall they weren't a focus in DoW2 compared to CoH anyway.
The gameplay footage from Eurogamer also showed a ton of flat battlefield play. That's my biggest concern that they are removing the interesting terrain and map design from older Relic RTS games.
I keep saying Relic RTS because the RTS games make are very different from Starcraft or MOBAs. The games require less micro because units are grouped into squads, you don't have to manually mine/gather resources and instead just need to do things to generate it. You don't need to worry about your workers getting killed.
Previously there was a lot of strategy on capturing and holding territory. The heavy machine gun (or heavy bolter in DoW) in DoW2/CoH you had to set up and it will fire and suppress anyone in it's cone of fire. Most ranged units also fired better when stationary and suffered an accuracy penalty while moving. Again encouraging good unit placement rather than weaving in and out of ranges (This pattern was mostly for vehicles and you usually only have one or two vehicles at once)
I too like how they're bringing back traditional RTS elements like base-building... But they really fucked up the signature grimdark visuals.
Time will tell.
dow3 could be a literal black screen and people would say its not grimdark enough
Their biggest mistake was leading with a trailer with the kind of art direction it had, and then following up with the actual style. If the initial trailer more closely matched the game, I doubt there'd be as much backlash
[QUOTE=ashxu;50524519]
They are streamlining the cover system. On paper that seems like dumbing it down but the squad size is larger so it won't make sense for a ton of units to be huddling around a few lines of sandbags. This will probably mean buildings are either limited to large ones or removed too. But I recall they weren't a focus in DoW2 compared to CoH anyway.
[/QUOTE]
I still don't get where did you find squads large enough to make proper cover obsolete. Footage shows 5 model tactical marines squads and six model Guardian squads, that's one model more than their DoW II equivalents. That's pretty far from a "ton" of units, CoH squads were that "big" and cover made sense.
[QUOTE=gudman;50524902]I still don't get where did you find squads large enough to make proper cover obsolete. Footage shows 5 model tactical marines squads and six model Guardian squads, that's one model more than their DoW II equivalents. That's pretty far from a "ton" of units, CoH squads were that "big" and cover made sense.[/QUOTE]
because of the sheer amount of them. you'd have to have really large, boring stretches of cover to fit in armies of that size.
[QUOTE=Naught;50524952]because of the sheer amount of them. you'd have to have really large, boring stretches of cover to fit in armies of that size.[/QUOTE]
Of what size, there's max 6 squads per side on screen in any of the gameplay footage, is 30 guys really that big of an army you can't think of how to place them all in cover? Like, damn, stop trying to make it bigger than it actually is. What you're thinking is "stretches of cover" going over flat terrain, and I'm thinking proper interesting environments with organic cover stuff in it like in previous games. Hell, DoW-esque "cover"-terrain was more interesting than this new deployable shit.
Why are so many people being nitpicky about graphics when there's loads of other things wrong with this. Have any of you noticed the front flip in terminator armor, cringey dialogue and terrible gameplay :v:?
cringey dialogue isn't out of place in Warhammer
one of the reasons I like Warhammer is because of the cringy and over the top dialogue
[QUOTE=Joazzz;50525742]cringey dialogue isn't out of place in Warhammer[/QUOTE]
Just because DoW 1 had hilariously cringey dialogue that worked in favour of the game doesn't mean it doesn't have the power to detract from the game, even more so if it's not funny
Unsure on this after CoH2 honestly.
So from the german commentary
3 factions fighting over a discovered ancient weapon (either chaos or necron)
no cover system (likely those bubbles were a unique eldar structure)
base building is in, but they presume it's a reinforcement point, not a defensive one
hard to say how it actually plays, since both the eldar and marine caster were incredibly terrible. Neither moved his units or did stuff like landing right on top of the other.
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