• México should legalize drugs in order to stop the narcotrafic violence? But U.S would allowed it?
    74 replies, posted
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48569592]Just because a drug is legalized, doesn't mean its any easier to get. We have regulations for a reason.[/quote] So what regulations do you propose for heroin? I personally think that being able to go into a shop and buy it without a medical prescription is a few steps too far. [quote]Besides, you can already get any legal or illegal drug from a single online market and it can be delivered straight to your mailbox. I don't think it gets much easier than that. Anti-drug laws only make the black market stronger. If these things were legal and regulated we could not only make them safer, we could disarm this false sense of "safety" you have, letting the government do all the critical thinking for your health.[/QUOTE] Except I'm proposing a completely different system. I'm advocating that we should treat drug abuse as a medical rather than criminal problem. Legalizing heroin won't help. [QUOTE=zach1193;48570596]The FDA already has essentially no real power[/quote] So what you're saying is that the entirety of the FDA does nothing at all? [quote]And using china and britains opium scenario isn't a good example because the brits were also raping the shit out of the chinese before the wars started and such. Opiates (basically the biggest epidemic (if you must call it that) that humanity has faced as far as drugs are concerned) aren't going anywhere. They come from a plant, domestic to this earth and so we must accept that they exist therefore humans are going to consume the drugs contained within. No law is going to stop that, but laws regulating such substances (not illegalizing them of course) seems to me the only logical way to go about it. In my honest opinion I think it's just ridiculous to tell people what they can and can't put into their bodies. Who the fuck cares if it can kill you or cause issues, not everyone wants to live the longest they can as it is, who is anyone else to tell an individual what to do with one's self. and as far as effecting other people, that really boils down to the big groups that produce the drugs and crime is a result of such.[/quote] This is a cheap way to opt out of a widespread medical issue. "It doesn't matter if people are addicts and are seriously sick, that's their choice so we should just allow them free and easy access to all the drugs they want". This is a problem that cannot be simply fixed through the spurious idea that what might work for marijuana will also work for heroin. The Chinese example works because a situation like that is exactly what can happen if we legalize heroin. [quote]This is certainly an important and complicated issue, but by no means is this rocket science.[/QUOTE] Advocating legalizing every drug as a panacea is not going to work. There is no universal solution to a problem, and to assume that every single drug issue can be fixed by "legalize it" is stupidly shortsighted.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48572032]So what regulations do you propose for heroin? I personally think that being able to go into a shop and buy it without a medical prescription is a few steps too far. [/QUOTE] Why? We sell dangerous drugs over the counter already. If I want to abuse drugs I can find something just with a lower LD50 than heroin maybe even over the counter. Benefits of legalizing heroin: - users will no longer be guessing what they're taking, how much they're taking - users will no longer be funding violent criminals, tax revenue could go to education and law enforcement and rehabilitation Regulations could include: - 21 or older with little to no history of drug abuse or violent behavior - a limited number of purchases of certain quantities per person per day - standards for testing and labeling and packaging of dangerous drugs It's a humanitarian effort
[QUOTE=cody8295;48572636]If I want to abuse drugs I can find something just with a lower LD50 than heroin maybe even over the counter. [/quote] Then why don't you? It can't be that those drugs are shit and nobody likes taking them anyways. [quote]- users will no longer be funding violent criminals, tax revenue could go to education and law enforcement and rehabilitation[/quote] Any evidence for this? Like, will this actually happen and will it actually work? [quote]Regulations could include: - 21 or older with little to no history of drug abuse or violent behavior - a limited number of purchases of certain quantities per person per day - standards for testing and labeling and packaging of dangerous drugs[/quote] According to your logic of how people abuse drugs anyways no matter the law, the first two regulations you propose will be understandably ignored by everyone and will do nothing. Children will just hang around shops and ask people who are older to go in and buy drugs for them. Limited quantities will create a black market that loads of people will exploit through arbitrage. The last one depends on how benevolent the corporations are. If people complain about corporations making shitloads of cash through slave labour or animal abuse, just think what they'd do with the legal right to sell as much heroin as they please. [quote]It's a humanitarian effort[/QUOTE] For the benefit of a "humanitarian".
We already sell heroin and opium "legally", what don't you get about that? What difference is there if a new company sells it? If someone wants opium, they can buy the ingredients at the store and make it at home. You can get A LOT of illegal drugs through legal means already, but do you see every man, woman, and child rushing to go pick up bags of poppy seeds? Your mom must have really left you with a negative bias towards the evil drug empire. We agree that something has got to change, we definitely don't agree on what or how. The reason for using heroin and opium as examples is because they both have a huge negative stigma from just about everyone, but we literally just make analogues of it and sell it with a different name to get around that. You can't stop drugs, any drug as a matter of fact, they're a part of our planet and they're not going anywhere, the best we could do is disseminate the ridiculous misinformation we have been throwing around. We have prescriptions for amphetamines, meth, medical-grade heroin, we are making our way to medical MDMA, what makes you think we can't handle the rest of them? Oh, and by the way. If these drugs were legal and pure no one would be making Krokodil with gasoline and cough syrups in someone's basement or whatever the fuck they do in Arizona and Russia, there wouldn't be a shortage or a difficulty getting what they're dependent on (Opiates), so they're next choice from their addiction is getting help, not find a cheap, easy to make alternative.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48574881]We already sell heroin and opium "legally", what don't you get about that? What difference is there if a new company sells it? If someone wants opium, they can buy the ingredients at the store and make it at home. You can get A LOT of illegal drugs through legal means already, but do you see every man, woman, and child rushing to go pick up bags of poppy seeds?[/quote] Well I see a lot of idiots buying nutmeg with the intention of eating it and getting high, so I'm inclined to think that there are a lot of dumb fucking idiots out there who extract opium out of poppy seeds. [quote]The reason for using heroin and opium as examples is because they both have a huge negative stigma from just about everyone, but we literally just make analogues of it and sell it with a different name to get around that. You can't stop drugs, any drug as a matter of fact, they're a part of our planet and they're not going anywhere, the best we could do is disseminate the ridiculous misinformation we have been throwing around.[/quote] I don't think anyone wants you to continue to "disseminate ridiculous misinformation". I know that you can't stop drugs, that's like saying you can't stop murder. But it is indeed possible to control both. [quote]We have prescriptions for amphetamines, meth, medical-grade heroin, we are making our way to medical MDMA, what makes you think we can't handle the rest of them?[/QUOTE] Because those are medical and require a prescription? They aren't being sold in the corner shop. The regulations that Cody suggested are insane and unworkable.
Yeah, I'm sure you witness [i]so many[/i] people buying nutmeg for the myristicin. You get opium out of the poppy seed pod, you get morphine and opioids from washing poppy seeds with warm water. It not complicated or even hard, it's actually safer than most drugs on the legal market. I can't argue with you any more, the bias is making me want to scream.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48575270]Yeah, I'm sure you witness so many people buying nutmeg for the myristicin high.[/QUOTE] what regulations do you propose we adopt for the sale of heroin [quote]I can't argue with you any more, the bias is making me want to scream.[/QUOTE] i'm willing to have marijuana legal and sold in much the same way that tobacco is now i'm not too sure where the bias is
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48575284]what regulations do you propose we adopt for the sale of heroin[/QUOTE] We should all be able to apply for recreational and medical substance licenses, which, coupled with the right system could educate and keep track of users and their substance use. It's not the weed you're biased against, it's all the other drugs you are scared of. Oh, and just for the sake of knowldege, Krokodil (desomorphine) is heroin, just made with gasoline and household products.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48575315]We should all be able to apply for recreational and medical substance licenses, which, coupled with the right system could educate and keep track of users and their substance use.[/QUOTE] So people should be able to apply for a license to buy heroin with for recreation? What sort of criteria will be required for the person, how much are they allowed to buy, etc?
That would have to be discussed with your personal practitioner and signed by a cognitive therapist. It would have to be determined on a personal level, since everyone does drugs differently, some go way too far, and others dip their pinky toe in and shit themselves. That, and everyone reacts to drugs a little differently, some people have drug allergies or allostatic hormone balances that would not be conductive to drug use.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48575478]That would have to be discussed with your personal practitioner and signed by a cognitive therapist. It would have to be determined on a personal level, since everyone does drugs differently, some go way too far, and others dip their pinky toe in and shit themselves. That, and everyone reacts to drugs a little differently, some people have drug allergies or allostatic hormone balances that would not be conductive to drug use.[/QUOTE] So if everybody who wanted to use recreational drugs (besides just heroin) would require personal therapy, a license, etc. I'm curious as to how this would be cheaper than the existing system or would somehow eliminate black markets.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48575534]So if everybody who wanted to use recreational drugs (besides just heroin) would require personal therapy, a license, etc. I'm curious as to how this would be cheaper than the existing system or would somehow eliminate black markets.[/QUOTE] Cheap, safe, legal. Pick two.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48575567]Cheap, safe, legal. Pick two.[/QUOTE] It doesn't sound like the problem has been much improved by legalization, if at all.
[QUOTE=CoilingTesla;48575567]Cheap, safe, legal. Pick two.[/QUOTE] What does this even mean? That if drugs were illegal they would be cheap and safe?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;48575594]What does this even mean? That if drugs were illegal they would be cheap and safe?[/QUOTE] I'm talking about a licensing system, not drugs themselves. Also, you'll never completely get rid of black markets, you can take their consumers and with that, revenue.
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