Bernie Sanders: "White people don't know what it's like to be poor." - General

[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;49883595]But that's not what ghetto means, ghetto isn't defined by race, generally it is in terms of living conditions.[/QUOTE] it's defined as and has been used to describe poor areas of mostly minorities.

There are plenty of poor, uneducated white Americans, the problem is that they're all voting for Donald Trump so offending them is a non issue. (for a democrat politician anyway.)

the fact that people are saying "OMG BERNIE SANDERS SAID WHITE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE POOR" is just fucking ridiculous considering that he supports income equality all of you need to stop being so fucking sensitive to anything barely involving "white guilt"

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883592]it's not saying that white people can't have it shitty, it's saying that there are disadvantages due to race that make being poor AND not white even worse. majority of sanders voters / if not all who are lower class and white will not misinterpret his statement as offensive to them because they know it to be true.[/QUOTE] My friend grew up in a poor area where a majority of the students he was with were black. He got the shit kicked out of him for being white. His family didn't get the same government support as other African-american families did because they were white. I don't see any advantage of being white there. Alienating white people from black people with statements like these and vice-versa just creates more distance and tension between races. The goal is to squash these petty "I am X race, I have it harder/better I don't relate with X race" shit and have ourselves as Americans come more together to cooperate with each other and understand each other.

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883600]it's defined as and has been used to describe poor areas of mostly minorities.[/QUOTE] Therein lies the issue of conflating being a minority with being poor. Whenever somebody who operates in this way thinks of a black person, they think of somebody living in a ghetto. Whenever they think of someone poor who lives in a ghetto, they think of a black person. If you base your rationale on this logic, then it's totally reasonable to use "black" and "poor" interchangably and complain about how "rich whites" don't understand "poor blacks". black=poor white=rich You understand what I'm saying here? This seems to be how at least quite a few people operate. It seems somewhat wrong-headed to me to do this. It means you think that all black people are automatically poor and live in a ghetto while all white people live in nice houses with white picket fences and 2.5 kids.

[QUOTE=BenJammin';49883619]My friend grew up in a poor area where a majority of the students he was with were black. He got the shit kicked out of him for being white. His family didn't get the same government support as other African-american families did because they were white. I don't see any advantage of being white there. Alienating white people from black people with statements like these and vice-versa just creates more distance and tension between races. The goal is to squash these petty "I am X race, I have it harder/better I don't relate with X race" shit and have ourselves as Americans come more together to cooperate with each other and understand each other.[/QUOTE] I went through the same thing your friend did, and yeah it sucks, no doubt about it. And though I agree that "I am X race, I have it harder/better I don't relate with X race" should disappear That can't happen until that statement is no longer true. And to boil it down so simply / deny that it's true is pretty unfair to poc and a reason why BLM exists.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49883614]the fact that people are saying "OMG BERNIE SANDERS SAID WHITE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE POOR" is just fucking ridiculous considering that he supports income equality all of you need to stop being so fucking sensitive to anything barely involving "white guilt"[/QUOTE] That's literally what he said though, you should watch the video.

[QUOTE=Zyler;49883625]Therein lies the issue of conflating being a minority with being poor. Whenever somebody who operates in this way thinks of a black person, they think of somebody living in a ghetto. Whenever they think of someone poor who lives in a ghetto, they think of a black person. If you base your rationale on this logic, then it's totally reasonable to use "black" and "poor" interchangably and complain about how "rich whites" don't understand "poor blacks". black=poor white=rich You understand what I'm saying here? This seems to be how at least quite a few people operate. It seems somewhat wrong-headed to me to do this. It means you think that all black people are automatically poor and live in a ghetto while all white people live in nice houses with white picket fences and 2.5 kids.[/QUOTE] I have no clue what you're saying or why you're saying, all i've said is that ghetto describes a poor area of mostly minorities. jewish ghettos were a thing, too. not necessarily black people, not sure where you got that.

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883632]I went through the same thing your friend did, and yeah it sucks, no doubt about it. And though I agree that "I am X race, I have it harder/better I don't relate with X race" should disappear That can't happen until that statement is no longer true. And to boil it down so simply / deny that it's true is pretty unfair to poc and a reason why BLM exists.[/QUOTE] Using logic like "I am X race thus I have it better than people of X race" is the problem here. It's a generalization that doesn't automatically apply to everyone depending on context. Racism isn't a one-way street, it's entirely possible for a white kid growing in a poor black neighborhood to be bullied specifically for his race, and I believe people here have already posted examples of this. And then there's the people who say that's no big deal compared to institutional racism, which really shows they know nothing of what they're talking about. Social ostracizing can have a huge impact on one's life. Not to mention institutional racism doesn't always hinder the same race (EG "diversity" quotas)

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883632]I went through the same thing your friend did, and yeah it sucks, no doubt about it. And though I agree that "I am X race, I have it harder/better I don't relate with X race" should disappear That can't happen until that statement is no longer true. And to boil it down so simply / deny that it's true is pretty unfair to poc and a reason why BLM exists.[/QUOTE] What if I said: "If you are black, you don't know what it's like to be rich." The negativity in the essence of that statement is essentially the same shit. You can say all day that black people are stalked by cops, black people deal with more racism, black people deal with more ghettos, etc etc etc. And I agree with all those statements. But as soon as you put races vs. each other in a statement like that, you are just creating more negation between races.

He literally told a story about how he was poor (and presumably still white) and struggling while living in America as a younger man. Pretty sure he meant that whites don't experience the same level of poverty as blacks (not true though).

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49883635]That's literally what he said though, you should watch the video.[/QUOTE] I've see you defend trump many many times when he's said stupid shit by going "OH NO THATS NOT WHAT HE MEANT, HE MEANT XYZ" so don't even start lmao [QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49845750]The quote is “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” Trump said. “They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.” He never said most Mexicans, he was talking about the ones coming here illegally. Stop making shit up to hate Trump, just say you disagree with him. Making stuff up makes you look childish.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883638]I have no clue what you're saying or why you're saying, all i've said is that ghetto describes a poor area of mostly minorities. jewish ghettos were a thing, too. not necessarily black people, not sure where you got that.[/QUOTE] What I'm talking about is a mentality people have. We're reinforcing a cycle of poverty by attributing poverty to a group of people. It's a never-ending cycle. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Consider this scenario: Some person sees a black person on the street: -They observe that people can be poor -They observe that a lot of poor people are black so they deduce that black people are poor. -They therefore deduce that the black person in front of them is poor, despite knowing nothing about them. They associate being black with being poor. One state (being black) is a condition of the other (being poor). This is also true the other way around. In their mind, being black means being poor and being poor means being black. [B]Black people, in the mind of the observer, are, as a category, viewed as being poor. That is their primary attribute. It is impossible to be black without being poor, or vice versa.[/B] The same person observes a white person on the street: -They observe that it's possible for people not to be poor -They observe that a lot of white people are not poor so they deduce that white people are not poor -They therefore deduce that the white person in front of them is not poor, despite knowing nothing about them. Let's extend this to the level of an entire society: -In our society, there are areas of extreme poverty. At some point of time, somebody decides to call these areas ghettos -Society notices that in these areas there are a lot of black people, Society collectively deduces that being having a large black population is the primary requirement for any area being a ghetto, as a result they change the meaning of the word and rename any poor area that doesn't fit that description to something else (like a 'trailer park') -Society has now created an arbitrary distinction between a poor area with mostly black people (a ghetto) and a poor area with mostly white people (a trailer park) -It's now possible to claim that poor white people don't understand poor black people living in Ghettos because if poor white people live in a ghetto, that ghetto is now a trailer park instead. The problem with this, is that the difference between a 'ghetto' and a 'trailer park' is entirely arbitrary. Both of those words are just slang for "a place where a lot of poor black people live" and "a place where a lot of poor white people live" respectively. What I'm trying (and failing, probably) to get at here is that it's a matter of mentality and the language we use that creates these arbitrary distinctions. There is no real distinction between a poor black person and a poor white person beyond the level of melanin in their skin, but we use distinct words and categories in order to manufacture that difference. [B]Poverty is seen as endemic to being black, despite the fact that there are black people who are not poor. A lack of poverty is therefore seen as endemic to being white, despite the fact that there are white people in extreme poverty.[/B] Here's a final example I'd like to use in an attempt to clear this up: Consider this final scenario: -You observe a tiger -You observe that the tiger has stripes -You make the reasonable conclusion that all (or at least most) tigers have stripes -Does that mean that any animal that has stripes is a tiger? -No, because Zebras exist This is the same logic we use when we say black people are poor. This is the same logic we use when we define any area of poverty with a mostly minority populace as a Ghetto without mentioning that Trailer Parks exist.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49883688]Pretty sure he meant that whites don't experience the same level of poverty as blacks (not true though).[/QUOTE] All whites? No. Most whites? Yes. You can't argue that most white families aren't better off than most black families. I feel for whites living in poverty and being outcasted in black environments just as much as I feel for blacks in the same situations, but to say that most whites don't have it better is silly.

[QUOTE=man with hat;49883751]All whites? No. Most whites? Yes. You can't argue that most white families aren't better off than most black families. I feel for whites living in poverty and being outcasted in black environments just as much as I feel for blacks in the same situations, but to say that most whites don't have it better is silly.[/QUOTE] Even if there were just as many white people in poverty as there are black people in poverty, most white families would still be better off than most black families because black people only make up 16% of the population. Whether or not a percentage of the population is on average richer or poorer doesn't change the situation for the people who are poor, nor does it make it not a generalization to only include a section of the population that is poor and is also a certain skin color in your assessment of who is poor and oppressed in your country.

he was pretty clearly just listing the things people who live in ghettos experience and repeating the "you don't know what it's like" for emphasis (which is a common rhetorical tool) you're taking it out of context

[QUOTE=Zyler;49883770]Even if there were just as many white people in poverty as there are black people in poverty, most white families would still be better off than most black families because black people only make up 16% of the population.[/QUOTE] You have to look at it as a percentage. 3/4 of a population is, percentage wise, bigger than 2/4 of a population, regardless of the variance in raw numbers. If you are black, you are more likely to live in poverty than whites. That is a statistical fact. I don't even know what you're talking about in your second paragraph.

[QUOTE=man with hat;49883812]You have to look at it as a percentage. 3/4 of a population is, percentage wise, bigger than 2/4 of a population, regardless of the variance in raw numbers. If you are black, you are more likely to live in poverty than whites. That is a statistical fact. I don't even know what you're talking about in your second paragraph.[/QUOTE] My point was that what your saying doesn't indicate that individual white people experience more poverty individually than individual black people who are poor. Your argument is a non sequitur since Rangergxi's statement was that poor white people (as in individual white people) don't experience any more or less poverty than poor black people (as in individual black people). This followed from a conversation where someone was arguing that being poor and white was a different experience to being poor and black. He wasn't talking about statistics. He was saying that being a poor white person doesn't automatically make you less poor than a poor black person. I also don't know how you got 2/4 out of 16%, 2/4 is 50%. Maybe you're just using fancy numbers for effect, but it underlines the problem with your argument. There could be just as many poor white people as poor black people, which would mean you would be just as likely to be poor regardless of your skin color, but even if this were true there would still be more poor black people than poor white people because white people make up the vast majority of the population. I'm not saying you're right or wrong, just that your argument is flawed.

[QUOTE=man with hat;49883812]You have to look at it as a percentage. 3/4 of a population is, percentage wise, bigger than 2/4 of a population, regardless of the variance in raw numbers. If you are black, you are more likely to live in poverty than whites. That is a statistical fact.[/QUOTE] And? This kind of wording is disingenuous because it implies there's some form of unfairness and discrimination towards black people in terms of revenue when all that statistic shows is that more black people are poor and that poverty is hereditary. Poor white people are no less deserving of help, I really don't get the point of making arbitrary distinctions between races when the subject matter is income.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;49883714]I've see you defend trump many many times when he's said stupid shit by going "OH NO THATS NOT WHAT HE MEANT, HE MEANT XYZ" so don't even start lmao[/QUOTE] Totally different, that was some idiot paraphrasing a quote. He changed the words around and gave it a different meaning than what Trump literally said. I even provided the actual quote and pointed out he never said all Mexicans were rapists, he said the people that Mexico was sending are. Bernie literally (that word, literally, is very important, I suggest you look up the definition since you don't seem to be familiar with it) said"When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car,". Again, this makes you look very childish. Bernie said a bad thing, get over it.

[QUOTE=Alec W;49883600]it's defined as and has been used to describe poor areas of mostly minorities.[/QUOTE] By whom?

As a jew im sure he doesnt know either [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Antisemitism" - rilez))[/highlight]

Is this what political suicide looks like? Why would he say something even close to this if he knows that his chances of winning the election are bleak at best?

Honestly, pretty stupid of Sanders considering that the poorest of Americans tend to be white Appalachians.

[QUOTE=slayer20;49883057]I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.[/QUOTE] Nah, not really. Same drama, same bullshit, same financial woes. The only problem is that unless you are Betty Baby-Shitter 5000, your chances of getting on welfare are slim, and chances of getting thrown off it once you hit $30,000 a year is pretty bloody high.

[QUOTE=BenJammin';49883568] Here's a more factual statement. If you are born anywhere that isn't a third world shithole country you don't know what it's like to be truly poor. Even the poorest American people have high speed internet these days. [/QUOTE] Tell that to the dog food I ate or the days I went to bed without being able to have eaten when I was growing up. The frozen winter nights we didn't have heat, times we didn't have electricity or occasionally water because the relevant companies shut our utilities off and then got the courts to freeze the parent's bank accounts, etc. People in the first world grow up poor, especially in the United States of Fuck-The-Poor. It just doesn't fit your narrative to believe so. Sorry that you're objectively wrong. I didn't even have it the worst off of some people I know. I at least usually had friends who's parents would let me crash their couch when I had to leave home due to the often intense domestic happenings that come with that kind of environment. I remember the first night I slept on the street, ended up hanging out with this old homeless guy who was looking for his friend because he needed the keys to the space ship that brought them to earth. He taught me a lot about how being poor in a first world country works. At least Africans get people like you vomiting sympathy from every orifice, domestic poor just get beaten down or at best we get ignored. That said most of what Bernie said there is semi-true. Most white people don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto, get pulled out of cars, be systematically oppressed just because of their skin tone. There is a reasonable margin of difference between the percentage of poor whites and poor blacks that live in the worst conditions, it's a generalisation, which is bad in its own right, but I think it was mostly just worded wrong for what he may have intended to say. When you see a black person from the ghetto about, they're going to get treated differently than a white person from the trailer park, I think that's the point Bernie was trying to make, not that they're not actually poor.

[QUOTE=Fat White Lump;49883842]Totally different, that was some idiot paraphrasing a quote. He changed the words around and gave it a different meaning than what Trump literally said. I even provided the actual quote and pointed out he never said all Mexicans were rapists, he said the people that Mexico was sending are. Bernie literally (that word, literally, is very important, I suggest you look up the definition since you don't seem to be familiar with it) said"When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car,". Again, this makes you look very childish. Bernie said a bad thing, get over it.[/QUOTE] Oh boy here we go [QUOTE]Totally different, that was some idiot paraphrasing a quote.[/QUOTE] "I can't refute a point, so I will use ad hominems!" [QUOTE] I even provided the actual quote and pointed out he never said all Mexicans were rapists, he said the people that Mexico was sending are.[/QUOTE] So all people the are coming from Mexico (sorry, being specifically sent on a mission by Mexico) are rapists. Still a massive generalization and a bigoted one at that. [QUOTE]When you are white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto, you don’t know what it’s like to be poor, you don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you are walking down a street or dragged out of a car[/QUOTE] To an extent, this is true. Most whites don't live in ghettos or in poor areas. A disproportional amount of blacks live in poverty and in ghettos than whites do. [QUOTE] Again, this makes you look very childish.[/QUOTE] "YOU DISAGREED WITH ME SO YOU'RE A CHILD!!1!!"

He chose his words poorly. He was clearly trying to say "white people don't understand what it's like to be poor [B]and[/B] black". That the effect of poverty can be amplified by the color of your skin

[QUOTE=rilez;49884501]He chose his words poorly. He was clearly trying to say "white people don't understand what it's like to be poor [B]and[/B] black". That the effect of poverty can be amplified by the color of your skin[/QUOTE] I honestly think he misspoke and intended to say it differently, but that's what came out and now everyone is talking about this.

I like Bernie and I thought he was better than this. I get what he is trying to say and while I kinda agree, that was a really stupid and racist way of saying it, there are plenty of white people who experience real poverty and racism, even systematic if you look at countries like South Africa where white people have it much worse than the average black american.