Gee, i guess i should stop playing games.
Because its all unequal and shit.
Wait.
No
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40545191]Women who are too sexual aren’t taken seriously, and women who aren’t sexual enough aren’t taken seriously. Women who are conventionally attractive get valued solely for their sexual appeal; women who aren’t conventionally attractive get dismissed for their lack of it. Women who are conventionally attractive are assumed to be dumb bimbos; women who aren’t conventionally attractive are assumed to be either bitter or desperate. Women who are conventionally attractive get trivialized; women who aren’t conventionally attractive get treated with pity and contempt.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
(I'm hoping this might open somebody's eyes about feminism out there, but maybe that's too much hope)[/QUOTE]
You make it seem like this is 100% fact when its not something everyone believes.
I dont take a person seriously if they are a fucking idiot or generally just shit, not by looks, a lot of people actually do this Max, its not so black and white.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40545678]also your rant is ridiculous. "youtube videos won't change anything" ok cool come back to me when you have a magnificent better idea and show me that individuals have no impact on the social macrosystem of society. and just saying "well they do it in movies too!" doesn't change anything. it's still not a good thing[/QUOTE]
I never said it was a good thing. Anywhere.
She's attacking it the wrong way, is all. Stop poking the foot of the giant when the heart(s) lies totally elsewhere. And you know, maybe I'm wrong and a few YouTube videos can change things, but unless she pulls something spectacular from nowhere; it'd be best left to someone who hasn't already garnered this much controversy and made as many aimless statements.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40547407]You make it seem like this is 100% fact when its not something everyone believes.
I dont take a person seriously if they are a fucking idiot or generally just shit, not by looks, a lot of people actually do this Max, its not so black and white.[/QUOTE]
it's fact. look up the employment numbers. not all people are like this but it is generally the case as the numbers CLEARLY point out. this is what people do not understand. this is established FACT.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Doom14;40547503]I never said it was a good thing. Anywhere.
She's attacking it the wrong way, is all. Stop poking the foot of the giant when the heart(s) lies totally elsewhere. And you know, maybe I'm wrong and a few YouTube videos can change things, but unless she pulls something spectacular from nowhere; it'd be best left to someone who hasn't already garnered this much controversy and made as many aimless statements.[/QUOTE]
as I already said, the fact we are discussing this at all means she is doing her job and doing it pretty well
also you didn't say it's a good thing? no shit, that wasn't my point. you were deflecting sexism in video games by saying it exists in other forms of media. that's bullshit.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=moop900;40547285]Gee, i guess i should stop playing games.
Because its all unequal and shit.
Wait.
No[/QUOTE]
yeah that's exactly the point of the videos, you're really paying attention!
huh guys i dunno what you guys are talking about with this women stuff i sit on my computer and play video games all day, there's no such thing as trivialization or or abuse of women here!!!
haha you guys sure are WACKos
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40547553]it's fact. look up the employment numbers. not all people are like this but it is generally the case as the numbers CLEARLY point out. this is what people do not understand. this is established FACT.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
as I already said, the fact we are discussing this at all means she is doing her job and doing it pretty well
also you didn't say it's a good thing? no shit, that wasn't my point. you were deflecting sexism in video games by saying it exists in other forms of media. that's bullshit.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
yeah that's exactly the point of the videos, you're really paying attention![/QUOTE]
Its not a fact because that would make it 100% true which it is not.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40547880]Its not a fact because that would make it 100% true which it is not.[/QUOTE]
and why is this
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40547880]Its not a fact because that would make it 100% true which it is not.[/QUOTE]
Nothing is 100% true. The concept of absolute surety is asinine.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;40548036]Nothing is 100% true. The concept of absolute surety is asinine.[/QUOTE]
You need eyes to see, a brain to live, there is gravity, the earth orbits around the sun, you will die if you dont eat/drink anything, you will die if you dont sleep.
These are all 100% true, thats why they are called [sp]facts[/sp]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40547880]Its not a fact because that would make it 100% true which it is not.[/QUOTE]
it is 100% true...?
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
your argument of "no its not true ): [citation needed]" is very boring.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40548631]it is 100% true...?
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
your argument of "no its not true ): [citation needed]" is very boring.[/QUOTE]
How is it true if there are a lot of people who dont believe that or practice that? That in itself makes it not a 100% fact.
Its like saying everyone is racist and bases shit of the type of race and look, except instead of races its now women and there looks.
And if you are spouting shit like that I would love to see some research and citations to back that "fact' up.
So this is actually the first time I asked for a citation, dont get what your edit is about.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40548696]How is it true if there are a lot of people who dont believe that or practice that? That in itself makes it not a 100% fact.
Its like saying everyone is racist and bases shit of the type of race and look, except instead of races its now women and there looks.
And if you are spouting shit like that I would love to see some research and citations to back that "fact' up.
So this is actually the first time I asked for a citation, dont get what your edit is about.[/QUOTE]
Look, even if it wasn't 100% true (it is), it's still a MAJOR problem in society. Society almost always glorifies form over substance, and women are especially subjected to this kind of judgement.
You say not everyone does this? You're right, obviously. But the amount of people who do it is much, much higher than the people who don't. If that wasn't the case we wouldn't have models dying of anorexia in order to have that "ideal woman" look, and we wouldn't have women being shamed for being promiscuous (something we men are ADMIRED for!!). You wanted evidence, look up the root causes of those issues.
Whether or not this is "100% true" (whatever the fuck this means) is completely irrelevant when there is solid evidence that the problem is still widespread.
[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40549155]Look, even if it wasn't 100% true (it is), it's still a MAJOR problem in society. Society almost always glorifies form over substance, and women are especially subjected to this kind of judgement.
You say not everyone does this? You're right, obviously. But the amount of people who do it is much, much higher than the people who don't. If that wasn't the case we wouldn't have models dying of anorexia in order to have that "ideal woman" look, and we wouldn't have women being shamed for being promiscuous (something we men are ADMIRED for!!). You wanted evidence, look up the root causes of those issues.
Whether or not this is "100% true" (whatever the fuck this means) is completely irrelevant when there is solid evidence that the problem is still widespread.[/QUOTE]
Id love to see some sources on all this, and especially the one that proves its 100% true.
And I know this happens, your point on the models is very true, it seems that has sort of toned down a bit in the US at least since you dont hear about or see these obviously anorexic models much, not to say they dont still force models to have retarded eating habits.
But what Max was saying was making it seem like thats the only truth and its how everything is, when in fact its not, not everyone thinks of women that way, and I would bet the majority dont, I think it feels like the majority does because you always hear more about the bad than the good.
Its like if you asked two people the same question in a room full of people, a question like " Do you think women who are conventionally attractive are to be dumb bimbos?" The person who says no would most likely be largely ignored, because its a good answer, its not generalizing, its not an answer that would piss people off, its not something to even really talk about.
But the person who says Yes wouldnt be ignored, its a bad answer, people would talk about it, ask why you even think like this, and what can you base it off of, how come they are all dumb bimbos if they are just attractive? So this is the shit you hear more about since its really the only type of answer that gives anything to talk about.
So its like models, you see more of them because they are in the magazines, all over TV and ads, in shows, and maybe you will hear a story about a model being mistreated in terrible ways, and people only focus on that and always forget the better shit.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40548696]How is it true if there are a lot of people who dont believe that or practice that? That in itself makes it not a 100% fact.
Its like saying everyone is racist and bases shit of the type of race and look, except instead of races its now women and there looks.
And if you are spouting shit like that I would love to see some research and citations to back that "fact' up.
So this is actually the first time I asked for a citation, dont get what your edit is about.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequality_in_the_workplace[/url]
[url]http://prospect.org/article/understanding-black-white-earnings-gap[/url]
[url]http://www.pnas.org/content/106/22/8801.full[/url]
[url]http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1997/04/art2full.pdf[/url]
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40549338]Id love to see some sources on all this, and especially the one that proves its 100% true.
And I know this happens, your point on the models is very true, it seems that has sort of toned down a bit in the US at least since you dont hear about or see these obviously anorexic models much, not to say they dont still force models to have retarded eating habits.
But what Max was saying was making it seem like thats the only truth and its how everything is, when in fact its not, not everyone thinks of women that way, and I would bet the majority dont, I think it feels like the majority does because you always hear more about the bad than the good.
Its like if you asked two people the same question in a room full of people, a question like " Do you think women who are conventionally attractive are to be dumb bimbos?" The person who says no would most likely be largely ignored, because its a good answer, its not generalizing, its not an answer that would piss people off, its not something to even really talk about.
But the person who says Yes wouldnt be ignored, its a bad answer, people would talk about it, ask why you even think like this, and what can you base it off of, how come they are all dumb bimbos if they are just attractive? So this is the shit you hear more about since its really the only type of answer that gives anything to talk about.
So its like models, you see more of them because they are in the magazines, all over TV and ads, in shows, and maybe you will hear a story about a model being mistreated in terrible ways, and people only focus on that and always forget the better shit.[/QUOTE]
oops look at the facts above you! lol
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40549338]But what Max was saying was making it seem like thats the only truth and its how everything is, when in fact its not, not everyone thinks of women that way, and I would bet the majority dont, I think it feels like the majority does because you always hear more about the bad than the good.[/QUOTE]
It's been drilled into our heads since we were kids. And that's been going on for a long time.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
This is what "check your privilege" actually means, by the way... "please realize that your experiences may not be the same as someone's else because of X Y Z factors such as gender/race" etc
This amounts to "empathy 101"
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
Misogyny is institutional. It's a disdain for women and for womanhood that's backed up by social power.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40549529]It's been drilled into our heads since we were kids. And that's been going on for a long time.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
This is what "check your privilege" actually means, by the way... "please realize that your experiences may not be the same as someone's else because of X Y Z factors such as gender/race" etc
This amounts to "empathy 101"
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
Misogyny is institutional. It's a disdain for women and for womanhood that's backed up by social power.[/QUOTE]
Even if its drilled into your head as a kid, that is still not 100% true which is what you are making it seem, not everyone thinks like that, and I would say the majority dont, yet the way you said it made it seem like thats just how everyone thinks.
even if not the majority thinks that and its just the small percentile in control, ITS HOW IT WORKS CURRENTLY; IT'S HAPPENING. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS ABOVE. WAGE/ EMPLOYMENT INEQUALITY IS A THING, THERE'S THE PROOF. IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
the fact you think women don't have it worse off or "it's not that bad" is proof of the "institution" max is referring to at work
[QUOTE=thisispain;40545121]feminists arent the only thing who want things to be equal, civil rights people wanted things to be equal too even tho plenty of people said that black people werent created equally in the first place.
plus we werent even "created" in the first place, and feminists want equality in representation, wages, and rights. what we were created as bears 0 importance.
and power of the pussy basically implies that women need to use their sexuality or else they'll realise they "fucked up" somehow? what about women that are sexually unattractive?
thats genuinely sexist dude[/QUOTE]
i said it could be better. NO race was created equal in the first place as well either. each and every race on the planet has as many differing physiological traits as the next. but here's the kicker, women and men inherently have different body structures, plus the difference between a man and a woman is night and day compared to say from america of the same sex with someone from a completely different country. it's not sexism if there are obvious differences between genders that are WAY bigger differences than ones between races.
again i said it could be better. but everything that made things the way they are today is because we're a sexually dimorphous species. WOMEN ARE BORN AND GROW ON AVERAGE BOTH SMALLER AND WEAKER THAN MEN, IT AIN'T SEXISM, IT'S NATURE BUDDY. also don't misinterpret this as a comment on their mental. although women are plenty different than men in that regard as well.
power of the pussy doesn't apply to anyone. in fact it more applies to women who in general consider themselves to be feminists or whatever, just to empower themselves or something because they're young and need some kind of ideology to grasp onto. i have no fucking idea where you live but around here there's so much of that false feminism it makes me want to gag.
it's a complete double standard they just love to play out. i'm also referring to specific people i know and also in general people who are like them, i'm not referring to femminists, women in general or anything like that. i'm referring to a group of people who are female and love to play the equality card when it's great for them, but as soon as it sucks to be equal they put it away and let someone else do it.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
true equality won't be possible unless we somehow get rid of gender. even then someone would find something to bitch about
biotruths abound thanks for the heads up on the fact this old classic is around
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
he even typed his post out like an angry old man for extra effect!
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40550673]
he even typed his post out like an angry old man for extra effect![/QUOTE]
and you type all your posts as if you had penis envy...
for extra effect!
it gets so adversarial in gender arguments you could swear that the way things are today is actually because of some battle women and men waged against each other at the beginning of time.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40550201]even if not the majority thinks that and its just the small percentile in control, ITS HOW IT WORKS CURRENTLY; IT'S HAPPENING. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS ABOVE. WAGE/ EMPLOYMENT INEQUALITY IS A THING, THERE'S THE PROOF. IT NEEDS TO CHANGE.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
the fact you think women don't have it worse off or "it's not that bad" is proof of the "institution" max is referring to at work[/QUOTE]
I never actually said women dont have it worse off, or that its not that bad, stop putting words into my mouth because I never said any of those things or believe them.
I said Max worded what he said really badly as if what he said was 100% the end all be all truth for everyone.
[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;40550812]stop putting words into my mouth [/QUOTE]
come on
this is facepunch
[QUOTE=NeoSeeker;40550578]i'm referring to a group of people who are female and love to play the equality card when it's great for them, but as soon as it sucks to be equal they put it away and let someone else do it.[/QUOTE]
actually this right here is the only thing i dislike about this whole pile of bullshit. i could care less about anything else besides ignorant puffed up femminism or the double standard gender equality card.
[QUOTE=NeoSeeker;40550578]again i said it could be better. but everything that made things the way they are today is because we're a sexually dimorphous species. WOMEN ARE BORN AND GROW ON AVERAGE BOTH SMALLER AND WEAKER THAN MEN, IT AIN'T SEXISM, IT'S NATURE BUDDY.[/QUOTE]
THERE ARE MORE DIFFERENCES [B]WITHIN[/B] GENDERS THAN [B]BETWEEN[/B] GENDERS
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
all caps is cool for cruise control
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40551447]THERE ARE MORE DIFFERENCES [B]WITHIN[/B] GENDERS THAN [B]BETWEEN[/B] GENDERS[/QUOTE]
and how exactly does that matter.
no really can you give me a straight up no bullshit response to the above question?
by the way i understand the fact that there can be giraffe women and hobbit men.
but on average women are smaller and weaker than men.
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
it's like you people pick what you want from a post, then slather some pretense, you made, over it, then respond to it
even if i am being a bit of an ignorant asshole i would love to see these archaic roles in society completely gone. i don't see race or gender when i look at a person, i see a human being. but it's so fucking engrained in society that i don't see it ever going away. not only that but there are certain inherent things that may not even have to do with how society has built our social roles.
not only that but i think that if all this bullshit was gone i myself would benefit greatly. besides every other altruistic reason i'd have that's in this idealistic world, and don't get me wrong because i love to see human progress being made over anything, there are many that even a possibly gender biased, selfish, ignorant asshole would have.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40551447]THERE ARE MORE DIFFERENCES [B]WITHIN[/B] GENDERS THAN [B]BETWEEN[/B] GENDERS
[/QUOTE]
Off course there are. There are male and female spiders, male spiders have more legs than male humans, and they can make webs. But why does it matter?
i was kind of unclear on exactly what he was referring to.
was he referring to differences within genders between difference species compared to humans or simply that there are more differences within human genders. hence the giraffe lady (amazon build) and hobbit man (incredibly short dude) comment
[QUOTE=NeoSeeker;40551819]i was kind of unclear on exactly what he was referring to.
was he referring to differences within genders between difference species compared to humans or simply that there are more differences within human genders. hence the giraffe lady (amazon build) and hobbit man (incredibly short dude) comment[/QUOTE]
within human genders, of course
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=NeoSeeker;40551503]even if i am being a bit of an ignorant asshole i would love to see these archaic roles in society completely gone. i don't see race or gender when i look at a person, i see a human being.[/QUOTE]
gender / race "blindness" is not how to get rid of racism or sexism.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40551865]within human genders, of course
[editline]6th May 2013[/editline]
gender / race "blindness" is not how to get rid of racism or sexism.[/QUOTE]
Why not? It is not a good way of doing it, but it will get rid of racism and sexism.
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;40551944]Why not? It is not a good way of doing it, but it will get rid of racism and sexism.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism[/url]
[url]http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-36-fall-2009/feature/colorblindness-new-racism[/url]
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40551865]
gender / race "blindness" is not how to get rid of racism or sexism.[/QUOTE]
i'm talking about when i meet people i don't immediately put them in criteria or anything.
i'm talking about when thinking about a person, rather than people.
when talking about people you have to generalize cause you don't know them.
semantics ect. im starting to confuse myself.
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