Trops vs Women in Video Games - Women as Background Decoration: Part 2 - General

Anita posts the Tropes vs Women videos so infrequently that i always forget that she even exists. Also, wasn't that Bioshock to establish character for the bad guy Almost every time she shows a NPC hurting another NPC, she shows a situation in which the character can interject, and she acts as if not interjecting is the inention of the game designers to be part of a choice when in reality the game designers designed it to be so that you care enough to interject.

Remember when video games were like you know. Games, and not big social rights topics? When you played Super Mario 64 nobody cried about how peach was a "damsel in distress", nobody whined about Doom having a male protagonist as opposed to a female one. I wish we could go back to treat games as games and not just have spiteful people who don't even like video games complaining about them day and night.

With the Tropes vs Women videos, up until the two "Background Decoration" ones, I've found myself agreeing with Sarkeesian's theory behind certain tropes and some of her examples, namely the older games where creative expression was severely hobbled by the technical limits of the time. With newer games she got things wrong about half the time, at best, but I still found the videos insightful from a discussion/historical perspective. I'd even argue that up until these last two videos, FP actually improved in terms of giving Sarkeesian atleast some credit. These last two though have been a complete wash and a disappointing development. It's clear that she hasn't bothered to actually play almost any of the games she criticizes, but even if that were the case (and I'd say there are legitimate times you can criticize a games story without actually playing it) she either willfully ignores or misses out somehow on the context. At this point I'd go so far as to say pick any game you want out of the ones she lists to see blatant misrepresentation of the game, but what got me was the Far Cry 3 one at 5:46. Apparently the problem is that a pimp beats a female prostitute "of color" in a shantytown. Putting aside the fact that nearly everyone in the game is a person of color (South Pacific island) and the fact that the island chain is regularly reported to be impoverished, the problem is that a pimp beats a woman. In a game where the main antagonist [B][I]lights a man on fire[/I][/B] to send a message to his brutal force of mercenaries who regularly engage in spectacular acts of violent despotism. Just about the only thing this video gets right for me is the Hitman/LA Noire marketing which always seemed off-putting and its not even about the games itself.

Sarkeesian is one of those extremists that will not stop complaining until women are portrayed as divine untouchable gods in all future video games. And even then she'll probably have more to complain about. I'd say that people like her are actively hurting feminism by intentionally riling people up against it. And I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason she's doing this is to get popular and earn money, while not actually caring about the stuff she says.

She raised $150,000 to research women being used as just objects for sexual amusement/whatever in video games. She bought around 200 video games, and has apparently never actually played them. Why is she focusing on games that have strippers and/or prostitutes and claiming they're being used as sex objects? It's a fucking stripper, and their purpose is for being exactly that, sexual amusement/entertainment. She's playing games that parody real life, entering strip clubs* and going "these npc women are being used as sex objects." As for Red Dead Redemption, it's a spaghetti western game, and has women NPCs who portray women in the old west and movies. Many spaghetti western films have that "damsel in distress" scenario. I am in support for getting rid of using women in video games as just eye candy, but I can't take it seriously when it focuses on women that are in roles as something that's for the purpose as eye candy *strip clubs exist in real life, and there should be no surprise that real life parodying games have them

[QUOTE=Crash155;45799450] As for Red Dead Redemption, it's a spaghetti western game, and has women NPCs who portray women in the old west and movies. Many spaghetti western films have that "damsel in distress" scenario.[/QUOTE] It also regularly has scenarios where men are brutally assaulted and murdered on the frontier.

I noticed how she would make the comment on how the men's in these games were not sexualized as a sort of counter argument to the use of victimized women to build context. It wouldn't really make sense to use men, because a victimized man doesn't hold nearly as much weight.

She constantly complains about how women getting abused are sideshows in open world games, where literally every single thing is a sideshow.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45798632]Remember when video games were like you know. Games, and not big social rights topics? When you played Super Mario 64 nobody cried about how peach was a "damsel in distress", nobody whined about Doom having a male protagonist as opposed to a female one. I wish we could go back to treat games as games and not just have spiteful people who don't even like video games complaining about them day and night.[/QUOTE] I really can't wait until this all blows over. I won't deny the inequality between men and women portrayed in a lot of media, but I really, really hate how this social justice bullshit has tarnished my favorite hobby. It's a noble cause to highlight inequality in our society, but when people like Anita overanalyze and make it look like every game from the beginning to the present is horrible 'misogynistic' crap, it starts painting outsiders' views of what the gaming community is like. I finally realized just how bad this has all gotten when this girl I met had a weird reaction to me casually mentioning a video game in conversation. She said "Oh, you're a gamer...". I was weirded out, but I didn't say anything at the time. Later down the line, after we'd been friends for a while, she confessed that my 'gamer status' gave her the preconception that I was potentially a violent, sexist bigot. Like, wow. What the hell? Is that really what some outsiders think about this hobby now? I thought maybe she was just an odd case, but I've seen a lot of Tumblr feminists specifically refer to "gamers" as a problematic group. It's absolutely ridiculous. It was one thing to not wanna talk about video games for fear of being labeled a "nerd", but it's another to be labeled a fucking sexist.

It's getting to the stage where nobody can do, say or even think anything without a horde of people being offended by it. Kinda boring now, really. I'm 99% sure she's just making these to provoke reaction and it seems to be working. If I was to make a game, I'd probably have the main character be a big musclebound dude with a huge sword and plenty of 'manly' points because games are fiction and I want to escape the reality of being a fat, depressed nerd with no friends or prospects.

I just realized something on the assassin's creed II part with the dude who goes around killing women The game fucking tells you to aim at him and shoot him, and not to get close or else he'll go around murdering women she needs to really play the source material of her arguments

[QUOTE=Crash155;45800063]I just realized something on the assassin's creed II part with the dude who goes around killing women The game fucking tells you to aim at him and shoot him, and not to get close or else he'll go around murdering women she needs to really play the source material of her arguments[/QUOTE] It doesn't help that people have figured out that she's using footage that other people have recorded.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45797344]Also you shouldnt have cartoon aligators that all look the same and put a bow or eyelashes on it so you know its a female. Or anything that would make you assume its female.[/QUOTE] that wasn't her point with that all lol adding a bow, lipstick, high heels, and a beauty mark on a non-human or an inanimate object is dumb, because.... why? it's lazy character design. why don't the guys have tank tops, short cut brown hair, and basketball shorts if the woman-thing is somehow acceptable? like, thomas was alone did a female not-human well, with the square.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;45797698]It's only going to take one person to derail this thread to 30 pages+. I guarantee it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=milkandcooki;45800230]that wasn't her point with that all lol adding a bow, lipstick, high heels, and a beauty mark on a non-human or an inanimate object is dumb, because.... why? it's lazy character design. why don't the guys have tank tops, short cut brown hair, and basketball shorts if the woman-thing is somehow acceptable? like, thomas was alone did a female not-human well, with the square.[/QUOTE] Oh, here he is. Abandon thread everybody.

You know she had some good points in one or two videos, but now she just seems to be nitpicking. What is she even on about at the bioshock part, they're not sexualised at all, it seems she just sees sexualisation wherever she wants to.

I love these threads because they are a great source of drama and add some small purpose to my dull and meaningless life, it's great!

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45800230]that wasn't her point with that all lol adding a bow, lipstick, high heels, and a beauty mark on a non-human or an inanimate object is dumb, because.... why? it's lazy character design. why don't the guys have tank tops, short cut brown hair, and basketball shorts if the woman-thing is somehow acceptable? like, thomas was alone did a female not-human well, with the square.[/QUOTE] Why is that lazy design? If anything it required effort to make that alligator stand out. I dont know why the guy alligators didnt have all that, go ask the animator. Why would either be unacceptable? Is there something wrong with antro alligators in a tv show where the female wheres a pink bow to differentiate the same looking shit. Why would Alligators have hair and why do the men ones have to wear basketball shorts and tank tops. Last I checked those were pretty neutral. What if that shit ruins the show and characters so instead they add 1 bow to make sure you know which one the girl is. I dont know why you think this is a women only thing. Why are all these questions im asking so retarded? Its because the entire idea of being upset over something like that is fucking absurd.

[QUOTE=Shugo;45799755] I finally realized just how bad this has all gotten when this girl I met had a weird reaction to me casually mentioning a video game in conversation. She said "Oh, you're a gamer...". I was weirded out, but I didn't say anything at the time. Later down the line, after we'd been friends for a while, she confessed that my 'gamer status' gave her the preconception that I was potentially a violent, sexist bigot.[/QUOTE] Maybe that's because gamers [I]do[/I] tend to be violent, sexist bigots? After all, this is a medium whose fans tend to resort to death threats, doxxing, swatting, etc over what most sane people would see as minor offenses at best.

well if we're going by scott mccloud's analysis of cartoons and cartoon characters the reason women have added detail and men don't would be that cartoons are defined by the ways in which they're unlike the viewer. So of course as an artist drawing cartoons your characters would become more visually complex the further they get from what you view yourself to be. It's a really complicated concept that I'm completely taking out of context and doing a terrible job of explaining, but suffice to say it has nothing to do with sexism. Just visual language, psychology, and communication.

I'm so glad nobody takes these people seriously in real life.

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45800497]Maybe that's because gamers [I]do[/I] tend to be violent, sexist bigots? After all, this is a medium whose fans tend to resort to death threats, doxxing, swatting, etc over what most sane people would see as minor offenses at best.[/QUOTE] Right, because the actions of a few angry internet trolls are representative of everyone who plays video games.

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45800497]Maybe that's because gamers [I]do[/I] tend to be violent, sexist bigots? After all, this is a medium whose fans tend to resort to death threats, doxxing, swatting, etc over what most sane people would see as minor offenses at best.[/QUOTE] So vocal, active, minorities represent the entire group? Okay.

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45800497]Maybe that's because gamers [I]do[/I] tend to be violent, sexist bigots? After all, this is a medium whose fans tend to resort to death threats, doxxing, swatting, etc over what most sane people would see as minor offenses at best.[/QUOTE] This wasn't worth the post. Get back to lurking will you.

Anita's eyebrows still look awful has nobody had the guts to tell her how bad they look?

[QUOTE=Coffee;45801124]Anita's eyebrows still look awful has nobody had the guts to tell her how bad they look?[/QUOTE] Her eyebrows consume those who dare. they grow

What a pathetic argument, she's actually delusional. These videos are a joke.

[QUOTE=Shugo;45800542]Right, because the actions of a few angry internet trolls are representative of everyone who plays video games.[/QUOTE] "I'm being persecuted! Here's a random screencap from 4chan insulting me!"

La Noire. a dead women as advertisement. I don't see her as sexy i see her as i victim and want to find out how and why she died. Come on Anita grow a brain and read some real studies.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;45800441]Why is that lazy design? If anything it required effort to make that alligator stand out. I dont know why the guy alligators didnt have all that, go ask the animator. Why would either be unacceptable? Is there something wrong with antro alligators in a tv show where the female wheres a pink bow to differentiate the same looking shit. Why would Alligators have hair and why do the men ones have to wear basketball shorts and tank tops. Last I checked those were pretty neutral. What if that shit ruins the show and characters so instead they add 1 bow to make sure you know which one the girl is. I dont know why you think this is a women only thing. Why are all these questions im asking so retarded? Its because the entire idea of being upset over something like that is fucking absurd.[/QUOTE] I don't remember the alligator example exactly but I remember agreeing with a lot of that video. Namely that often designers will create a cast of characters who are all male with one female character and that one female characters only distinguishing feature will be the fact that she's female(pink clothes/ red bow and lipstick). While the male characters will all get personalities like ones a painter or ones the jock etc...

[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45800497]Maybe that's because gamers [I]do[/I] tend to be violent, sexist bigots? After all, this is a medium whose fans tend to resort to death threats, doxxing, swatting, etc over what most sane people would see as minor offenses at best.[/QUOTE] lol that's what happens to ANYTHING when you combine irrational people/hatred and passion. Sports? Riots and Petty Bar Fights Religion? Terrorism Ideology? Stalin