What has he actually lied about? The most common one i've seen mentioned is "infinite quests", which is actually somewhat true, even though it just means you can play some of them as many times as you like.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48344765]He's still the sexiest male game dev[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that's still Cliffy B.
I'm very impressed with how many different pictures of todd howard he found
[QUOTE=nightlord;48347579]What has he actually lied about? The most common one i've seen mentioned is "infinite quests", which is actually somewhat true, even though it just means you can play some of them as many times as you like.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/39wg6d/whats_the_story_behind_people_saying_tell_me_lies/"]Google Yay.[/URL]
Before you ask, its not the 'lemmegoogledatforya' its a reddit explanation.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=KorJax;48347613]I'm very impressed with how many different pictures of todd howard he found[/QUOTE]
Its actually REALLY easy apparently.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48347618][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/39wg6d/whats_the_story_behind_people_saying_tell_me_lies/"]Google Yay.[/URL]
Before you ask, its not the 'lemmegoogledatforya' its a reddit explanation.[/QUOTE]
None of those are technically lies though, they're all just exaggerations of things that are actually in the games.
[QUOTE=simkas;48347664]None of those are technically lies though, they're all just exaggerations of things that are actually in the games.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Hating on Todd is pretty much a culture now.
I guess they are exaggerating more than he ever will.
[QUOTE=simkas;48347664]None of those are technically lies though, they're all just exaggerations of things that are actually in the games.[/QUOTE]
Uhhh...200 endings?
Like I could see that argument for the others but 200 endings?
[QUOTE=Swilly;48347757]Uhhh...200 endings?
Like I could see that argument for the others but 200 endings?[/QUOTE]
They're counting all the different variations of the slides at the end that detail what happens with various settlements and stuff. If you count every single possible variation of all the different versions of each of those, you'd probably end up with a pretty big number.
[QUOTE=simkas;48347769]They're counting all the different variations of the slides at the end that detail what happens with various settlements and stuff. If you count every single possible variation of all the different versions of each of those, you'd probably end up with a pretty big number.[/QUOTE]
There are 29 endings, the most card variation you see is 17 which changes gender and race.
[QUOTE=Swilly;48347950]There are 29 endings, the most card variation you see is 17 which changes gender and race.[/QUOTE]
No, there are 29 different segments of the endings, there are a whole lot more of combinations of those different segments that can be seen.
You can affect Riverwood's economy.
[sp]I love bethesda games tho[/sp]
Wait a sec I downloaded this image in TWO THOUSAND ELEVEN.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/AlKhnRo.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=The Robster;48348088]Wait a sec I downloaded this image in TWO THOUSAND ELEVEN.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/AlKhnRo.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I'm giggling like a preschooler because of that
[QUOTE=TheTalon;48344765]He's still the sexiest male game dev[/QUOTE]
I read that as 'sexist male dev' and thought we were about to hop into a wholly different territory to 'this dude is attractive' there :suicide: .
[QUOTE=Swilly;48347757]Uhhh...200 endings?
Like I could see that argument for the others but 200 endings?[/QUOTE]
If you read what Todd said about it, it makes sense. Here's part of what he said about it:
[quote]“oh, but there’s four versions of that.” So i was like, “okay there’s like four different versions of that part,” and that multiplies by, at the time we were at about 60 endings…so now there’s four versions of that, so now there are around 240 versions.”[/quote]
[url]http://www.destructoid.com/update-fallout-3-s-200-endings-aren-t-really-endings-but-permutations-77543.phtml[/url]
There are over 200 endings, as in combinations of slides at the end of the game.
As for the other points mentioned:
Infinite quests - this one is true. It does mean you will end up replaying the same quests over and over, but there's still no end to them.
Not gamebryo - this is true, the game does not run on gamebryo, it's a new engine based on it.
Skyrim does have over 70 voice actors.
From what i've seen, the AI in oblivion does decide to do things based on what's going on and have daily 'lives'.
A month delay to the creation kit does not make him a liar.
It doesn't seem like any of the things he's said are lies. It seems more like people just made their own assumptions about what he said.
[QUOTE=nightlord;48348587]If you read what Todd said about it, it makes sense. Here's part of what he said about it:
[url]http://www.destructoid.com/update-fallout-3-s-200-endings-aren-t-really-endings-but-permutations-77543.phtml[/url]
There are over 200 endings, as in combinations of slides at the end of the game.
As for the other points mentioned:
Infinite quests - this one is true. It does mean you will end up replaying the same quests over and over, but there's still no end to them.
Not gamebryo - this is true, the game does not run on gamebryo, it's a new engine based on it.
Skyrim does have over 70 voice actors.
From what i've seen, the AI in oblivion does decide to do things based on what's going on and have daily 'lives'.
A month delay to the creation kit does not make him a liar.
It doesn't seem like any of the things he's said are lies. It seems more like people just made their own assumptions about what he said.[/QUOTE]
This doesn't make it any less sleazy or justified
Like seriously they technically aren't lies but they imply (and were statements meant to imply) much bigger of different things and in some cases they did straight up lie (disrupting riverwood economy and all that jazz). Imagine how bullshit it would be if a developer said their game didn't require a subscription fee to play, but in order to get out of the starting area you had to pay a sub fee. Technically they are right, but technically its total bullshit and a twisting of words.
I don't understand die hard Bethesda defenders who are willing to defend them for the most obvious bullshit they do. It's okay to still enjoy and like their games while also recognizing their failings. The only reason why I do so is because I've played the shit out of all of them and consider myself a fan. I don't believe a good fan can honestly look at their games and go pretend there is nothing wrong with any of them and any of their pre-release coverage. If I wasn't a fan this type of shit wouldn't bother me at all.
I always take what Todd says with a fair amount of salt.
I love their games but the statements about radiant AI across ALL OF THEIR GAMES have been complete and utter lies. That's my only real gripe. Stop lying to me about AI, and start developing a real AI.
AI is where games currently fall to pieces. We need to start creating better AI enemies and worlds and environments because we've been pitched stuff like Radiant AI since before Oblivion and it's never worked, not once.
[QUOTE=KorJax;48349101]This doesn't make it any less sleazy or justified
Like seriously they technically aren't lies but they imply (and were statements meant to imply) much bigger of different things and in some cases they did straight up lie (disrupting riverwood economy and all that jazz). Imagine how bullshit it would be if a developer said their game didn't require a subscription fee to play, but in order to get out of the starting area you had to pay a sub fee. Technically they are right, but technically its total bullshit and a twisting of words.
I don't understand die hard Bethesda defenders who are willing to defend them for the most obvious bullshit they do. It's okay to still enjoy and like their games while also recognizing their failings. The only reason why I do so is because I've played the shit out of all of them and consider myself a fan. I don't believe a good fan can honestly look at their games and go pretend there is nothing wrong with any of them and any of their pre-release coverage. If I wasn't a fan this type of shit wouldn't bother me at all.[/QUOTE]
They don't "imply" anything. It's just the case of people reading what Howard says and imagining things that are way bigger than what he's trying to say and then getting angry when it doesn't match their crazy expectations.
Yeah Todd isn't a liar, he just has a big mouth :v:.
[QUOTE=simkas;48349227]They don't "imply" anything. It's just the case of people reading what Howard says and imagining things that are way bigger than what he's trying to say and then getting angry when it doesn't match their crazy expectations.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if that's really the case at all.
Todd isn't using exagerative language for no reason. He's doing it to sell his game. It works because we buy it time, and time again.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;48349242]I don't know if that's really the case at all.
Todd isn't using exagerative language for no reason. He's doing it to sell his game. It works because we buy it time, and time again.[/QUOTE]
That's really his only sin, he gets way too excited about the games he works on and likes talk a lot about things that are really cool to him and he's proud that his team was able to do those things when in reality, they're things that most players won't notice that much or care about it that much.
[QUOTE=nightlord;48348587]If you read what Todd said about it, it makes sense. Here's part of what he said about it:
[url]http://www.destructoid.com/update-fallout-3-s-200-endings-aren-t-really-endings-but-permutations-77543.phtml[/url]
There are over 200 endings, as in combinations of slides at the end of the game.
As for the other points mentioned:
Infinite quests - this one is true. It does mean you will end up replaying the same quests over and over, but there's still no end to them.
Not gamebryo - this is true, the game does not run on gamebryo, it's a new engine based on it.
Skyrim does have over 70 voice actors.
From what i've seen, the AI in oblivion does decide to do things based on what's going on and have daily 'lives'.
A month delay to the creation kit does not make him a liar.
It doesn't seem like any of the things he's said are lies. It seems more like people just made their own assumptions about what he said.[/QUOTE]
Being based on Gamebryo doesn't make it any less Gamebryo. The game plays, feels, and looks the same as a Gamebryo game. The foundation for the engine is still a pile of shit. There's not much that can be built on that.
[QUOTE=KorJax;48349101]This doesn't make it any less sleazy or justified
Like seriously they technically aren't lies but they imply (and were statements meant to imply) much bigger of different things and in some cases they did straight up lie (disrupting riverwood economy and all that jazz). Imagine how bullshit it would be if a developer said their game didn't require a subscription fee to play, but in order to get out of the starting area you had to pay a sub fee. Technically they are right, but technically its total bullshit and a twisting of words.
I don't understand die hard Bethesda defenders who are willing to defend them for the most obvious bullshit they do. It's okay to still enjoy and like their games while also recognizing their failings. The only reason why I do so is because I've played the shit out of all of them and consider myself a fan. I don't believe a good fan can honestly look at their games and go pretend there is nothing wrong with any of them and any of their pre-release coverage. If I wasn't a fan this type of shit wouldn't bother me at all.[/QUOTE]
The disrupting the Riverwood economy is one i remember that actually wasn't included, but there is a difference between features being cut from a game and lying about what's in the game. At the time he said it, it was probably true.
I don't think any of his statements were purposefully said in a way to imply they are much better than they are, people just interpreted them wrong and assumed they were something far better than what he meant. What he said about infinite quests is quite clear, the engine and amount of voice actors aren't things that can really be argued with, and a delay (of only a month) does not mean he lied. The Radiant AI also seems to be true based on what i've read about it (the AI not being completely scripted, having daily routines etc), although i can't find an actual quote for what he said.
I'm not a "die hard Bethesda defender", there are plenty of things wrong with their games. That doesn't make much difference to whether what he has said are lies or not.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48349478]Being based on Gamebryo doesn't make it any less Gamebryo. The game plays, feels, and looks the same as a Gamebryo game. The foundation for the engine is still a pile of shit. There's not much that can be built on that.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that may be true, but that does not make the engine Gamebryo. The source engine is partially based on Goldsrc, which is a heavily modified version of the Quake engine, but that doesn't mean Half life 2 runs on the Quake engine.
remember that gamebryo is a decent engine on its own but bethesda butchered it with oblivion and fallout 3, I think they might have learned from their mistakes (but still expect major bugs!!)
[QUOTE=simkas;48349300]That's really his only sin, he gets way too excited about the games he works on and likes talk a lot about things that are really cool to him and he's proud that his team was able to do those things when in reality, they're things that most players won't notice that much or care about it that much.[/QUOTE]
I think that still makes him a better developer than say Peter Molynhue, or Team Bandai Australia during the making of L.A. Noire.
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Limed00d;48349523]remember that gamebryo is a decent engine on its own but bethesda butchered it with oblivion and fallout 3, I think they might have learned from their mistakes (but still expect major bugs!!)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's good that they've supposedly finished the game already, and are spending the next three months scouring for game breaking bugs and such to make the game as bug/glitch free as possible for a solid launch day, but it's a Beth game in the end, they'll be one or two glitches. Just hopefully nothing too awful or distracting.
Or at least it's a hilarious glitch like the giant one from Skyrim.
[QUOTE=BenJammin';48345503]After Skyrim I don't really expect Fallout 4 to be that good. But people will just eat that shit up without thinking about it anyways.[/QUOTE]
Here's a crazy thought, maybe there are people that actually enjoy how Skyrim plays and don't really care if the game has deep RPG mechanics or not?
I mean I know how crazy that is to think that other people enjoy different kinds of games, but it might just be crazy enough to be true!
[QUOTE=HWECQI;48349825]Here's a crazy thought, maybe there are people that actually enjoy how Skyrim plays and don't really care if the game has deep RPG mechanics or not?
I mean I know how crazy that is to think that other people enjoy different kinds of games, but it might just be crazy enough to be true![/QUOTE]
Also, Beth went covert MULTIPLE times on r/fallout and other related forums to ask what the fans wanted. I think people just worry too much.
This video, it just works.
[QUOTE=HWECQI;48349825]Here's a crazy thought, maybe there are people that actually enjoy how Skyrim plays and don't really care if the game has deep RPG mechanics or not?
I mean I know how crazy that is to think that other people enjoy different kinds of games, but it might just be crazy enough to be true![/QUOTE]
I don't even know where the expectation of depth came from. Elder Scrolls has never been as deep as other RPGs unless you look at Arena and Daggerfall, and those are so old by now they're irrelevant when talking about modern TES. Morrowind wasn't really too deep, it just had a lot of dice rolling in the background code. It was considered consolized when it was new, even, since it was the first TES to be on consoles.
Bethesda really hasn't ever made incredibly deep games and I don't know why people keep expecting that of them. They make first person action RPGs that are simple and accessible, and because of that, wildly popular.
god forbid people actually enjoy a game that's simpler than an old rpg with lots of depth
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