[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48349870]I don't even know where the expectation of depth came from. Elder Scrolls has never been as deep as other RPGs unless you look at Arena and Daggerfall, and those are so old by now they're irrelevant when talking about modern TES. Morrowind wasn't really too deep, it just had a lot of dice rolling in the background code. It was considered consolized when it was new, even, since it was the first TES to be on consoles.
Bethesda really hasn't ever made incredibly deep games and I don't know why people keep expecting that of them. They make relatively simple first person action RPGs that are simple and accessible, and because of that, wildly popular.[/QUOTE]
something something weapon conditions.
seriously I don't get the deal with weapon conditions honestly, they are just tedious.
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;48349881]something something weapon conditions.
seriously I don't get the deal with weapon conditions honestly, they are just tedious.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind them if they were ever made well, but they aren't. I'd rather weapons take no damage at all rather then a slow decay on a health bar. It isn't like I ever notice the decay unless I just found the gun and it's in shit condition anyways. I'll get a better weapon before mine starts to jam at all in both FO3 and NV.
[QUOTE=Limed00d;48349872]god forbid people actually enjoy a game that's simpler than an old rpg with lots of depth[/QUOTE]
Lord knows I'm kinda glad to not have a typical skill system in Fallout 4.
After playing 3 and New Vegas I don't think the DnD points system really works anymore these days.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48349955]Lord knows I'm kinda glad to not have a typical skill system in Fallout 4.
After playing 3 and New Vegas I don't think the DnD points system really works anymore these days.[/QUOTE]
I'll admit though I love the feeling of making those points click into place
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48349955]Lord knows I'm kinda glad to not have a typical skill system in Fallout 4.
After playing 3 and New Vegas I don't think the DnD points system really works anymore these days.[/QUOTE]
I honestly hadn't noticed how terrible the skills in FO3 and NV were handled until FO4 came around. completely unnoticeable changes (until you pump them to near max), unless it's Science or Lockpick, where you can't even attempt a high level lock or computer until you put 70+ points into them. If you're 49 Lockpick and find a medium lock? Tough shit, come back in one level. It's just awful and it plain doesn't work in what plays like a 3D FPS game.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48349478]Being based on Gamebryo doesn't make it any less Gamebryo. The game plays, feels, and looks the same as a Gamebryo game. The foundation for the engine is still a pile of shit. There's not much that can be built on that.[/QUOTE]
Thing is though is that we don't know the state of the Fallout 4 engine, I find it highly probable that they've continued to work on the engine in many ways other than graphics since Skyrim. The animations in the trailer show this especially as the third person view movements no longer look like shit. I think if we are going to reach a point where there are little or no traces of Gamebyro left in Bethesda games it is certainly not going to occur overnight.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48349955]Lord knows I'm kinda glad to not have a typical skill system in Fallout 4.
After playing 3 and New Vegas I don't think the DnD points system really works anymore these days.[/QUOTE]
It can work fine in the right application, it's just that the way New Vegas and FO3 did it was kinda pointless. Adding points to your skills didn't actually make a difference until you hit the different milestones, 25, 50, 75, and 100.
When a skill system is implemented appropriately, putting any number into a stat should have some kind of effect, rather than only when you reach a milestone.
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;48349979]Thing is though is that we don't know the state of the Fallout 4 engine, I find it highly probable that they've continued to work on the engine in many ways other than graphics since Skyrim. The animations in the trailer show this especially as the third person view movements no longer look like shit. I think if we are going to reach a point where there are little or no traces of Gamebyro left in Bethesda games it is certainly not going to occur overnight.[/QUOTE]
I've said this several times on this forum, but I think that the reason the old games are so crappy engine-wise is because they wanted to do too much for the hardware of the time to handle. Skyrim's vision was clearly larger then the last generation of consoles could deal with, and now that Fallout 4 is current gen only, I think it'll feel like an entirely new engine.
[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;48349964]I'll admit though I love the feeling of making those points click into place[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but it's kinda tedious after a while.
Can't tell you all how many times I read a magazine with the perk for +20 to a skill, and some mentants, only to find I'm still one point away from fixing a complex piece of pre-war machinery.
It's fucking stupid :v:
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48350017]Yeah, but it's kinda tedious after a while.
Can't tell you all how many times I read a magazine with the perk for +20 to a skill, and some mentants, only to find I'm still one point away from fixing a complex piece of pre-war machinery.
It's fucking stupid :v:[/QUOTE]
It's amazing how much better it would be with something as simple as a 5 point charity with a lowered chance of success. So if you had 45 lockpick you could still try, it would just be harder.
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48350051]It's amazing how much better it would be with something as simple as a 5 point charity with a lowered chance of success. So if you had 45 lockpick you could still try, it would just be harder.[/QUOTE]
At least I can appreciate that from Fallout 3 with the Speech % of success.
It at least let you try.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48350068]At least I can appreciate that from Fallout 3 with the Speech % of success.
It at least let you try.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. The change for New Vegas was a massive downgrade to the same stupid "fuck you if you're even a single point short" system that Obsidian had a boner for.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48350017]Yeah, but it's kinda tedious after a while.
Can't tell you all how many times I read a magazine with the perk for +20 to a skill, and some mentants, only to find I'm still one point away from fixing a complex piece of pre-war machinery.
It's fucking stupid :v:[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of a situation I had at the ending of Honest Hearts:
[sp]To get Joshua to spare Salt, you have to have 90 Speech. Even with a magazine and the Naughty Nightwear I had only 89 Speech. Wanted that ending, so I had to open the latest save and spend 30 mins to level up so I could put 1 point into Speech.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48350087]Exactly. The change for New Vegas was a massive downgrade to the same stupid "fuck you if you're even a single point short" system that Obsidian had a boner for.[/QUOTE]
Why people suck Obsidian's dong despite that I have no idea :v:
[editline]1st August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Captain;48350092]Reminds me of a situation I had at the ending of Honest Hearts:
[sp]To get Joshua to spare Salt, you have to have 90 Speech. Even with a magazine and the Naughty Nightwear I had only 89 Speech. Wanted that ending, so I had to open the latest save and spend 30 mins to level up so I could put 1 point into Speech.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I just cheat in those situations.
player.setav <skill> <skill# to add to current skill>
[QUOTE=nightlord;48349515]The disrupting the Riverwood economy is one i remember that actually wasn't included, but there is a difference between features being cut from a game and lying about what's in the game. At the time he said it, it was probably true.
I don't think any of his statements were purposefully said in a way to imply they are much better than they are, people just interpreted them wrong and assumed they were something far better than what he meant. What he said about infinite quests is quite clear, the engine and amount of voice actors aren't things that can really be argued with, and a delay (of only a month) does not mean he lied. The Radiant AI also seems to be true based on what i've read about it (the AI not being completely scripted, having daily routines etc), although i can't find an actual quote for what he said.
I'm not a "die hard Bethesda defender", there are plenty of things wrong with their games. That doesn't make much difference to whether what he has said are lies or not.
Yes, that may be true, but that does not make the engine Gamebryo. The source engine is partially based on Goldsrc, which is a heavily modified version of the Quake engine, but that doesn't mean Half life 2 runs on the Quake engine.[/QUOTE]
The only thing that ties Goldsrc to Quake is a single line of code. Everything else is different and 100% unique. The Quake engine provided a good framework to give an idea of what Valve wanted to achieve.
Bethesda's use of Gamebryo is in no way comparable to the complete rewrite that Valve did with the Quake engine. Valve built their own thing entirely. Bethesda may have done the same thing. Who knows. But the big difference here is that you can't polish a turd and expect something nice. It's still going to be a log of shit. And Gamebryo is a big, steamy log of shit.
I do not believe for a single second that Fallout 4 does not use Gamebryo. Everything about it still screams it to me. The 3rd person animations still look stiff and clanky as all hell. Either nobody at Bethesda can animate for shit or they're still using Gamebryo. I highly doubt that after this many years their animators haven't learned anything, so chances are they're still being limited by the freight train sized turd that is Gamebryo. Even if it's a heavily modified version of it, the root is still garbage.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48350183]The only thing that ties Goldsrc to Quake is a single line of code. Everything else is different and 100% unique. The Quake engine provided a good framework to give an idea of what Valve wanted to achieve.
Bethesda's use of Gamebryo is in no way comparable to the complete rewrite that Valve did with the Quake engine. Valve built their own thing entirely. Bethesda may have done the same thing. Who knows. But the big difference here is that you can't polish a turd and expect something nice. It's still going to be a log of shit. And Gamebryo is a big, steamy log of shit.
I do not believe for a single second that Fallout 4 does not use Gamebryo. Everything about it still screams it to me. The 3rd person animations still look stiff and clanky as all hell. Either nobody at Bethesda can animate for shit or they're still using Gamebryo. I highly doubt that after this many years their animators haven't learned anything, so chances are they're still being limited by the freight train sized turd that is Gamebryo. Even if it's a heavily modified version of it, the root is still garbage.[/QUOTE]
So you didn't watch the trailers, then?
[vid]https://fat.gfycat.com/LoathsomeKindChipmunk.webm[/vid]
"Stiff and clanky" my ass. This is the first Bethesda game to have animations that genuinely look like humans moving instead of an animation on a skeleton. What are your standards to call that stiff and clanky, especially when compared to Skyrim?
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48350183]The only thing that ties Goldsrc to Quake is a single line of code. Everything else is different and 100% unique. The Quake engine provided a good framework to give an idea of what Valve wanted to achieve.
Bethesda's use of Gamebryo is in no way comparable to the complete rewrite that Valve did with the Quake engine. Valve built their own thing entirely. Bethesda may have done the same thing. Who knows. But the big difference here is that you can't polish a turd and expect something nice. It's still going to be a log of shit. And Gamebryo is a big, steamy log of shit.
I do not believe for a single second that Fallout 4 does not use Gamebryo. Everything about it still screams it to me. The 3rd person animations still look stiff and clanky as all hell. Either nobody at Bethesda can animate for shit or they're still using Gamebryo. I highly doubt that after this many years their animators haven't learned anything, so chances are they're still being limited by the freight train sized turd that is Gamebryo. Even if it's a heavily modified version of it, the root is still garbage.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck do animations have to do with the engine? Do you not know anything about how games work?
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;48350218]So you didn't watch the trailers, then?
[vid]https://fat.gfycat.com/LoathsomeKindChipmunk.webm[/vid]
"Stiff and clanky" my ass. This is the first Bethesda game to have animations that genuinely look like humans moving instead of an animation on a skeleton. What are your standards to call that stiff and clanky, especially comparing it to Skyrim?[/QUOTE]
I'm referring specifically to the entire flocks of lifeless NPCs making a run for shelter during the gameplay demo at E3. 6-10 NPCs on screen, all running [I]exactly[/I] like they have in every single Bethesda game on Gamebryo since Oblivion. Huh, what a striking coincidence.
I'm not saying that they haven't done a good job with the changes they've made, they have. But that doesn't change the fact that the foundation is still ultimately shit.
Edit
It's okay, when everyone who believes his lies buys the game and gets their Pip Boy pre-order the cycle of letting the community fix everything wrong with the game will continue.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48350242]I'm referring specifically to the entire flocks of lifeless NPCs making a run for shelter during the gameplay demo at E3. 6-10 NPCs on screen, all running [I]exactly[/I] like they have in every single Bethesda game on Gamebryo since Oblivion. Huh, what a striking coincidence.
I'm not saying that they haven't done a good job with the changes they've made, they have. But that doesn't change the fact that the foundation is still ultimately shit.[/QUOTE]
What? Again, you must not have watched the trailers, because they did [I]not[/I] run like typical Bethesda animations. Your standards are absurdly high if the improvements you're seeing here are "stiff and clanky".
Also, animation quality has absolutely nothing to do with the engine. It doesn't matter if you're on Goldsource or Quake Engine 1 or Creation, it's skill and effort that changes things. Piss on the engine all you want, but it's irrelevant in an argument about animation quality.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48350242]Edit
It's okay, when everyone who believes his lies buys the game and gets their Pip Boy pre-order the cycle of letting the community fix everything wrong with the game will continue.[/QUOTE]
Woah... You're so enlightened, man. I can't wait until all the [U][I]sheep[/I][/U] who paid money for something [U][I]I don't like[/I][/U] can change the game to be better and fix its problems, instead of waiting 6 months for a patch that won't come like every other AAA title being released these days.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;48350242]I'm referring specifically to the entire flocks of lifeless NPCs making a run for shelter during the gameplay demo at E3. 6-10 NPCs on screen, all running [I]exactly[/I] like they have in every single Bethesda game on Gamebryo since Oblivion. Huh, what a striking coincidence.[/QUOTE]
A. That's just plain false
B. Bethesda has not reused movement animations in their games even once
The thing i usually do for sandbox games like these, read as little as possible about what is in the game and only read the essential parts (like generally people going like "Yeah its a good game").
Did that with Red Dead Redemption and i got surprised left and right about what was in the game, attempting to do the same with MGS V and Fallout 4.
Yeah I'm gonna do what I did with Bioshock Infinite, just read into the important bits like Specs and such, and keep my ears shut from day 1 spoilers.
I want to be surprised.
All this defending of Todd makes it seem like you guys are some kind of retard squad.
[video=youtube;B7trmEmI5Js]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7trmEmI5Js[/video]
[video=youtube;ZvJtSx0_VlQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJtSx0_VlQ[/video]
Well guess what, so is all the harping about how terrible and a liar Todd is, despite not really even lying.
[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;48350439]All this defending of Todd makes it seem like you guys are some kind of retard squad.
[video=youtube;B7trmEmI5Js]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7trmEmI5Js[/video]
[video=youtube;ZvJtSx0_VlQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJtSx0_VlQ[/video][/QUOTE]
A video game!? with [I]BUGS!?[/I] This is clearly a problem exclusive to Bethesda, [I]no[/I] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed_Unity"]game[/URL] company has bugs except for them.
Also, Todd didn't lie, stupid people decided that "infinite quests" was actually possible outside of small quests repeating. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would have the critical thinking skills to deduce that.
Nice insult for liking things you don't, too!
[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;48350439]All this defending of Todd makes it seem like you guys are some kind of retard squad.
[video=youtube;B7trmEmI5Js]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7trmEmI5Js[/video]
[video=youtube;ZvJtSx0_VlQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvJtSx0_VlQ[/video][/QUOTE]
We aren't defending him, were saying he's not literally Hitler like you think he is.
[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;48350439]All this defending of Todd makes it seem like you guys are some kind of retard squad.[/QUOTE]
Did you completely miss the part where we pointed out how he totally was not lying in the things that everyone always points out?
Todd's overenthusiam too much for ya, [URL="http://new2.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/14/00/1400fc_4927543.jpg"]dreamboy[/URL]?
[QUOTE=simkas;48350479]Did you completely miss the part where we pointed out how he totally was not lying in the things that everyone always points out?[/QUOTE]
Ah yes like those spears in Skyrim
[video=youtube;L9A6QHLIWg0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9A6QHLIWg0[/video]
[QUOTE=Gprimeisback;48350496]Ah yes like those spears in Skyrim
[video=youtube;L9A6QHLIWg0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9A6QHLIWg0[/video][/QUOTE]
People show but don't add in features all the time. Like use your fucking brain.
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