Empowered Womyn checks the privilege of a White male - General

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41764903]I don't think he's saying it's a bad thing to fight against it. On the other hand, overexposure of a (very small) bad minority is not the fault of the minority but those over-exposing them. [/QUOTE] Overexposure isn't their fault. Being part of the bad minority is [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41764903][B]It's not the responsibility of those sensible to separate themselves from extremists[/B], that's your responsibility. You should be smart enough to figure that on your own, that this bad minority =/= rest of the movement, and this kind of threads just seems to be all about drawing a false equivalence between the two.[/QUOTE] Of course it is. What are you talking about? If you don't condemn it, you make it look like it's okay with you. If there would be an employee of a bank who'd steal client's money and someone exposed him, should the bank fire him and address an apology to all it's customers or just ignore it and count that people are smart enough to figure out that it was just one guy and it's not accepted by bank's policy? And I'm not saying that feminism has an organized structure like a bank, you don't really need a spokesperson or whatever. You might as well separate yourself (and thus the movement) from the bad minority on individual level. And I think you should. That is, if you want people to have understanding what your movement actually is. People going "lol look at this feminist checking the white guy's privilege level" should be off hand invalidated. He's trying to make feminism look bad. Why the hell let him?

[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;41764939]It's ok for feminists to tell people that those idiots do not represent them. I support that. I just get really frustrated when people imply that other feminists can do anything about it. We can't. Anyone can call themselves anything because like I said before, there is no "feminist organization" or "feminist agenda" despite what people like to believe. I can (and I do) protest against idiots like this, but unfortunately I can't change a thing. The best we can do is ignore them. That's why I used that example. We can't stop every single individual nutter from doing whatever stupid shit they do in the name of feminism. Besides we have the OP here who is obviously trying to start an anti-feminist bandwagon and that just kind of ticked me off, for which I apologize.[/QUOTE] You can't stop these people from doing shit in supposedly the name of feminism, but you can influence, even if on a small, individual scale, whether or not people associate this shit with feminism.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765029] People going "lol look at this feminist checking the white guy's privilege level" should be off hand invalidated. He's trying to make feminism look bad. Why the hell let him?[/QUOTE] well personally i dont really care

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765029]People going "lol look at this feminist checking the white guy's privilege level" should be off hand invalidated. He's trying to make feminism look bad. Why the hell let him?[/QUOTE] If we were "letting him" we wouldn't be arguing right now. My point is that, to a certain extent, it's also your personal responsibility to be able to make a distinction between the actual thing and extremists, just like, in your analogy, you should have enough common sense to not burn the bank down just because 1/2 employees did something bad

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41765059]If we were "letting him" we wouldn't be arguing right now.[/QUOTE] But... I'm arguing [B]for [/B]invalidating him. Not against it. Why do you argue with me for? I don't know, shouldn't you like... agree with me... or something?

Holy shit, did she just push him off a height into a block of concrete. I'm pretty sure that's more than assault

sorry what does the video have to do with feminism? other than the title?

"invalidation" or having "the community" fight against whatever this is is a complete waste of time that wont accomplish any of the goals a feminist might have the only people that are convinced by ultimately inane shit like this are the people who are already biased about feminists.

this so obviously just a platform for idiots to moan about damned feminists ruining everything grrr *fume fume*

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765099]But... I'm arguing [B]for [/B]invalidating him. Not against it. Why do you argue with me for? I don't know, shouldn't you like... agree with me... or something?[/QUOTE] I definitely agree with in you in that we should write these people off, but I disagree that they are relevant enough to warrant any attention at all. Sure, maybe if someone asks me "Do you sanction or condemn actions like this?" then I'll obviously say that I don't approve, but I'm also not gonna bother looking for those people and publicly denouncing them as phonies because it'd be a massive waste of time.

[QUOTE=thisispain;41765069]well personally i dont really care[/QUOTE] You don't care that people try to manipulate others into thinking that feminism is something that it isn't? I'm gonna remind you your words next time you complain how feminism is falsely portrayed in the media. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41765078]My point is that, to a certain extent, it's also your personal responsibility to be able to make a distinction between the actual thing and extremists, just like, in your analogy, you should have enough common sense to not burn the bank down just because 1/2 employees did something bad[/QUOTE] Well, that's the responsibility of not being an idiot, but if the said bank wouldn't condemn the behavior, it isn't unreasonable to think that that kind of behavior is accepted by the bank. Now in the feminist case. Media and other people are only focusing on the bad minorities to falsify what feminism actually is. If you support the movement, you should strongly oppose this behavior.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765181]You don't care that people try to manipulate others into thinking that feminism is something that it isn't? I'm gonna remind you your words next time you complain how feminism is falsely portrayed in the media. [/QUOTE] and then ill remind you of the incredibly pertinent difference between a youtube video and a mass media smearing campaign against women this doesnt manipulate anyone, to say it does vastly overstates its importance.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765181]You don't care that people try to manipulate others into thinking that feminism is something that it isn't? I'm gonna remind you your words next time you complain how feminism is falsely portrayed in the media. Well, that's the responsibility of not being an idiot, but if the said bank wouldn't condemn the behavior, it isn't unreasonable to think that that kind of behavior is accepted by the bank.[/QUOTE] Feminism isn't a monolithic entity like a bank which can be held accountable for actions of its members. [QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765181]Now in the feminist case. Media and other people are only focusing on the bad minorities to falsify what feminism actually is. If you support the movement, you should strongly oppose this behavior.[/QUOTE] If you support the movement you are already opposing this behavior by the simple power of association.

hey silly sil if you feel so strongly about feminism not being besmirched by this sort of thing feel free to denounce it yourself [editline]9th August 2013[/editline] you can make yourself a wee badge and everything

so basically a random woman who may or may not (probably not) be a feminist assaulted some dude and this is somehow relevant to feminism as a whole even though it's only very tenuously related to it and wouldn't really matter even if she was a feminist and you definitely do not have any kind of agenda in posting this and claiming that it has anything to do with feminism gotcha

[QUOTE=thisispain;41765129]"invalidation" or having "the community" fight against whatever this is is a complete waste of time that wont accomplish any of the goals a feminist might have[/QUOTE] What? So you don't want support of more people? These are obvious attempts to make the movement look bad and antagonize it. Wouldn't you have more support if they weren't doing it or if their attempts would fail? Wouldn't that support the accomplishment of your goals? [QUOTE=thisispain;41765129]the only people that are convinced by ultimately inane shit like this are the people who are already biased about feminists.[/QUOTE] By one video? Yeah. When they are fed this kind of manipulation for years and nobody tells them it's not true? [QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;41765169]I definitely agree with in you in that we should write these people off, but I disagree that they are relevant enough to warrant any attention at all. Sure, maybe if someone asks me "Do you sanction or condemn actions like this?" then I'll obviously say that I don't, but I'm also not gonna bother looking for those people and publicly denouncing them as phonies because it'd be a massive waste of time.[/QUOTE] But it's just as much of a waste of time as replying to someone shitting on feminism in threads related to feminism, and you guys do that all the time. Same thing different form. And besides you are already in this thread, it's not like you would be purposely looking for something like this.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765304]What? So you don't want support of more people? These are obvious attempts to make the movement look bad and antagonize it. Wouldn't you have more support if they weren't doing it or if their attempts would fail? Wouldn't that support the accomplishment of your goals?[/QUOTE] no it wouldnt tell me how the glass ceiling is broken by some feminist denouncing someone else we've had feminists fighting in academics for the past 20 years and all thats done is further feminism as an academic discipline, it hasnt accomplished any goals

i will never take feminists seirously until they start a website with a complete wiki-editable list of people who are deemed bad representations of feminism and i feel like this is a completely reasonable request to make!!

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765304] But it's just as much of a waste of time as replying to someone shitting on feminism in threads related to feminism, and you guys do that all the time. Same thing different form. And besides you are already in this thread, it's not like you would be purposely looking for something like this.[/QUOTE] I'd agree if this was some kind of MRA forum or "A Voice For Men", but it isn't. There are a lot of people who may not be very literate in this subject and they shouldn't have to listen to just one side of the story. You know, make them understand and empathize. Well, that's why I do it, anyway.

[QUOTE=thisispain;41765207]and then ill remind you of the incredibly pertinent difference between a youtube video and a mass media smearing campaign against women this doesnt manipulate anyone, to say it does vastly overstates its importance.[/QUOTE] Scale is different. The purpose is the same. People can influence other people's ideals on individual level too if there are enough people trying to do it. This is just one video and one guy posting it. It has barely any impact, sure. What if there would be thousands of threads like this? And there are. And before you go on some hyperbole, I'm not asking you to look for these threads. Just post in the ones you stumbled upon. Everyone else opposing belittling feminism should do the same. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41765223]Feminism isn't a monolithic entity like a bank which can be held accountable for actions of its members.[/QUOTE] Yes. I adressed this in one of my previous posts. You can do the same thing on individual level. [QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41765223]If you support the movement you are already opposing this behavior by the simple power of association.[/QUOTE] Well I meant actively opposing, not just not liking it. [QUOTE=Hellduck;41765246]hey silly sil if you feel so strongly about feminism not being besmirched by this sort of thing feel free to denounce it yourself[/QUOTE] I thought I did on the first page. And why is suddenly not liking how feminism is besmirched a bad thing? [QUOTE=Cone;41765274]so basically a random woman who may or may not (probably not) be a feminist assaulted some dude and this is somehow relevant to feminism as a whole even though it's only very tenuously related to it and wouldn't really matter even if she was a feminist and you definitely do not have any kind of agenda in posting this and claiming that it has anything to do with feminism gotcha[/QUOTE] So basically someone tries to make it look like falsely accusing a guy of sexual assault and assaulting him is something a feminist would do and I'm a fucking idiot for opposing it. gotcha. And I'm not the guy who posted the video and added feminism to the title?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765409]I thought I did on the first page. And why is suddenly not liking how feminism is besmirched a bad thing?[/QUOTE] it's not really being besmirched though. the only people who seem to give a shit about this are you (im sure entirely out of the goodness of your heart, not of some ludicrous contrarian streak or a distrust of feminism absolutely yes siree) and MRA types who have already made their mind up.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765409]So basically someone tries to make it look like falsely accusing a guy of sexual assault and assaulting him is something a feminist would do and I'm a fucking idiot for opposing it. gotcha. And I'm not the guy who posted the video and added feminism to the title?[/QUOTE] hence why i didn't quote you you're getting kind of defensive bro

[QUOTE=thisispain;41765339]no it wouldnt tell me how the glass ceiling is broken by some feminist denouncing someone else we've had feminists fighting in academics for the past 20 years and all thats done is further feminism as an academic discipline, it hasnt accomplished any goals[/QUOTE] Because it makes the attempts to make feminism look like a bunch of man hating ugly sluts fail? It shows that this kind of people are just a very small minority, or that they aren't feminists at all and shouldn't be associated with the movement? Which gets you more support? [QUOTE=Kopimi;41765371]i will never take feminists seirously until they start a website with a complete wiki-editable list of people who are deemed bad representations of feminism and i feel like this is a completely reasonable request to make!![/QUOTE] Is making up completely retarded hyperboles and making it look like I said it the only way you can argue? How did you go from saying that this and that isn't feminism in a thread you stumbled upon to whatever the fuck you conjured up is beyond me. [QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;41765385]I'd agree if this was some kind of MRA forum or "A Voice For Men", but it isn't. There are a lot of people who may not be very literate in this subject and they shouldn't have to listen to just one side of the story. You know, make them understand and empathize. Well, that's why I do it, anyway.[/QUOTE] Exactly. More than one side of the story. Making people understand. That's my point. And you are more likely to influence someone here, in a neutral place, than on some MRA forum when people are already highly biased and concrete in their ideals. [editline]9th August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;41765511]hence why i didn't quote you you're getting kind of defensive bro[/QUOTE] Well yeah I am, look how many people attack me for saying that people who support the movement should oppose besmirching it. [QUOTE=Hellduck;41765478]it's not really being besmirched though. the only people who seem to give a shit about this are you (im sure entirely out of the goodness of your heart, not of some ludicrous contrarian streak or a distrust of feminism absolutely yes siree) and MRA types who have already made their mind up.[/QUOTE] I just don't like how [U]some [/U]people make feminism look like. Both those who oppose and support it.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765541]I just don't like how [U]some [/U]people make feminism look like. Both those who oppose and support it.[/QUOTE] ok well as i said, go fucking denouncement crazy, denounce until you can denounce no more then keep on denouncing. but no one else cares about trivial shit like this. [editline]9th August 2013[/editline] i dont like it either, but it's such a non-issue

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41765304]What? So you don't want support of more people? These are obvious attempts to make the movement look bad and antagonize it. Wouldn't you have more support if they weren't doing it or if their attempts would fail? Wouldn't that support the accomplishment of your goals?[/quote] no these people have absolutely no effect on the way feminism is viewed period. the only people who take these videos seriously are only using it to validate their preconceived notions about feminism. they are the people that most intelligent feminists have absolutely no interest in arguing with or trying to persuade because they are giant wastes of time and energy. [editline]9th August 2013[/editline] and frankly i don't even know if feminism needs more support. i think it needs more organization and radicalization more than it needs more people simply saying they are feminists. [editline]9th August 2013[/editline] which is true with most movements.

Apparently this is the proper context of this video, nothing to do with feminism at all: [quote]It wasn't a crowd of feminists. It was a religious demonstration, and people (ie - students) were applauding that someone took action against him.[/quote]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;41767104]no these people have absolutely no effect on the way feminism is viewed period. the only people who take these videos seriously are only using it to validate their preconceived notions about feminism.[/QUOTE] But people are being fed this crap from every direction (that things like this are what a feminist would do). And every attempt should be invalidated, on the individual level, when you stumble upon it. I'm not asking you to go and look for these threads, but since you're already here... [QUOTE=yawmwen;41767104]they are the people that most intelligent feminists have absolutely no interest in arguing with or trying to persuade because they are giant wastes of time and energy. [/QUOTE] This would make sense if it was a PM conversation. But this is a forum. The OP might be impossible to persuade, but some of those who read this thread might not.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41769209]But people are being fed this crap from every direction (that things like this are what a feminist would do). And every attempt should be invalidated, on the individual level, when you stumble upon it. I'm not asking you to go and look for these threads, but since you're already here... This would make sense if it was a PM conversation. But this is a forum. The OP might be impossible to persuade, but some of those who read this thread might not.[/QUOTE] if a person looks at this video and thinks "those god damned feminists!" then they very likely already have their mind made up and trying to convince them of anything is wasted energy.

Is anyone going to talk about what actually happened? come on people im much more interested in the aftermath, I seriously hope he presses charges against that stupid cunt.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41769209]But people are being fed this crap from every direction (that things like this are what a feminist would do). And every attempt should be invalidated, on the individual level, when you stumble upon it. I'm not asking you to go and look for these threads, but since you're already here...[/quote] i'm more concerned about mass media and corporate smear campaigns against feminism, not some random youtube video. [quote]This would make sense if it was a PM conversation. But this is a forum. The OP might be impossible to persuade, but some of those who read this thread might not.[/QUOTE] nah maybe in a video actually discussing feminism like the "tropes vs. women" video threads. in these threads the only people who will look at this and think it represents feminism in any way are the type of people i don't argue with simply because it's pointless.