The only thing that outstrips people's capacity to be vicious and self destructive is their ability to do so in the name of justice.
The Russian prisons have the right idea for the worst of the worst, but drug users and thieves don't belong in that environment. I also liked how they where in control in every single aspect, they commanded respect from the inmates and they knew how to act. Very structured and face paced. Not a lot of places can say they do that, honestly russians know how to deal with dangerous inmates.
A cell, within a cell, within a cell. Thinking of that alone is a deterrent for me.
Though I was really impressed with their 200 pound beasts, wish we had something like when I worked in corrections.
People don't dare fuck with the dog.
You people understand that the people who live in the nice norwegian prisions did something comparable to jaywalking when compared with Black Dolphin's inmates, right
yeah Black Dolphin is for serial rapists and cannibals and shit
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35766932]I wasn't aware canniablism was such an issue.
Murderers can be rehabilitated. many have been
Uh no, there is zero evidence that points to that. Harsh prisons are NOT a deterrent.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, I wouldn't even dare trust a man who has murdered other people and says he's normal all of a sudden. The thing with murderers is that most of them are likely to be psychopaths or sociopaths, they'll say anything to move along and continue to hurt others after they get past their obstacle. And I believe harsh prisons are a deterrent because honestly, I wouldn't want to be thrown in one of these prisons, anyone who murders someone usually does it on impulse as well, and if you give them a free ticket like what Norway does, they won't think killing someone is all that bad, which isn't good at all. Russia's huge as fuck, and it's also been pretty bad for quite a while, which leads to more crimes.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
Plus I knew a sociopath who was forced to get treated, lets just say that he got a whole lot worse and was a lot more manipulative when coming back from his "treatment", he ended up nearly killing someone afterwards.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=latin_geek;35779798]You people understand that the people who live in the nice norwegian prisions did something comparable to jaywalking when compared with Black Dolphin's inmates, right[/QUOTE]
I sometimes don't understand the forum and their views on this stuff, first they oppose the death penalty and want these guys to rot forever in prison, then they see shit like this and they want them to be more free and more relaxed. Make up your minds people.
[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;35781075]The thing with murderers is that most of them are likely to be psychopaths or sociopaths[/QUOTE]
In a single sentence you proved yourself wrong, this is simply not the case. You need to get your facts straight.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35781098]In a single sentence you proved yourself wrong, this is simply not the case. You need to get your facts straight.[/QUOTE]
Well that's kind of the way I see it, if it's intentional and not an accident, you can't really be normal now can you?
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
I mean seriously, someone who wanted that person dead and murdered them with no regrets, they're beyond fixing at that point.
You cannot diagnosis people with mental disorders just because you want to.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;35781150]You cannot diagnosis people with mental disorders just because you want to.[/QUOTE]
Well like I said before, you may want to believe they're normal, but a brutal murder is clearly not committed by a person thinking logically. I don't think they can be fixed, there have been cases where people claim to be fixed and they go out and commit the same crime all over again. Now if the murder was an accident, and it's quite obvious it was an accident, they don't deserve something this bad. But if the person just snapped and did it with no second thoughts, you can't fix them.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
You kind of just have to realize that there's fucked up people out there that absolutely cannot be fixed. But maybe I'm just not optimistic enough to really believe people can be fixed in a center with problems such as these. They probably work for a lot of petty stuff, but when you get down to murderers and the like, there's just no way it's going to even come close to working.
that ending gave a tear to my eye
[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;35781075]To be honest, I wouldn't even dare trust a man who has murdered other people and says he's normal all of a sudden. The thing with murderers is that most of them are likely to be psychopaths or sociopaths, they'll say anything to move along and continue to hurt others after they get past their obstacle. And I believe harsh prisons are a deterrent because honestly, I wouldn't want to be thrown in one of these prisons, anyone who murders someone usually does it on impulse as well, and if you give them a free ticket like what Norway does, they won't think killing someone is all that bad, which isn't good at all. Russia's huge as fuck, and it's also been pretty bad for quite a while, which leads to more crimes.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
Plus I knew a sociopath who was forced to get treated, lets just say that he got a whole lot worse and was a lot more manipulative when coming back from his "treatment", he ended up nearly killing someone afterwards.
[editline]1st May 2012[/editline]
I sometimes don't understand the forum and their views on this stuff, first they oppose the death penalty and want these guys to rot forever in prison, then they see shit like this and they want them to be more free and more relaxed. Make up your minds people.[/QUOTE]
This forum has many people with many views, you can't act like it is one person being inconsistent.
[QUOTE=VagueWisdom;35781075]To be honest, I wouldn't even dare trust a man who has murdered other people and says he's normal all of a sudden.[/quote]
Which is why you definitely don't take his word for it.
[quote]The thing with murderers is that most of them are likely to be psychopaths or sociopaths, they'll say anything to move along and continue to hurt others after they get past their obstacle.[/quote]
For one, they aren't. There are many reasons to kill. Someone who kills for money or out of rage are likely not sociopaths.
[quote]And I believe harsh prisons are a deterrent because honestly, I wouldn't want to be thrown in one of these prisons, anyone who murders someone usually does it on impulse as well, and if you give them a free ticket like what Norway does, they won't think killing someone is all that bad, which isn't good at all. Russia's huge as fuck, and it's also been pretty bad for quite a while, which leads to more crimes.[/quote]
Um you said that these people were sociopaths. That means whatever deterrent you think you have in place won't work anyways. Also, no one is thinking about jail or prison when they commit a crime. If people were thinking about it, no one would commit crimes right?
[quote]Plus I knew a sociopath who was forced to get treated, lets just say that he got a whole lot worse and was a lot more manipulative when coming back from his "treatment", he ended up nearly killing someone afterwards.[/QUOTE]
Yea, because you can't currently treat ASPD effectively. That doesn't mean we never will, just that currently we don't have the knowledge.
[QUOTE=Megadick;35778195]Crime is stopped only when (maybe) every crime is punishable by death.[/QUOTE]
what? no it isn't, then you just end up with lots of dead people and extra money spent on appeals processes and such
most serious crimes are commited by frustrated and naturally violent individuals in the heat of the moment without thinking ahead. if most violent people don't stop to think of the consequences, they aren't going to affect their actions
Also, the Death Penalty should not exist because it assumes that the Justice system cant be wrong.
You can send a man to prison for life, and find evidence of his innocence 50 years later and free him. It would suck to be in prison for 50 years for a crime you did not commit, but it is better than dying and never having the chance to be freed if you are proven innocent later.
[QUOTE=Hullu V3;35767867]No, you just don't see my point.
If you live on the street and barely get your daily meal, then this:
[img]http://theworldsbestever.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/halden-prison-norway-.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
True, to a homeless person that would look like a palace, but this prison exists in Norway, not the US. The social services they provide to ensure that downtrodden people get the help they need dwarf America's to quite an extent.
thanks for posting, real fun to watch
[QUOTE=person11;35784796]Also, the Death Penalty should not exist because it assumes that the Justice system cant be wrong.
You can send a man to prison for life, and find evidence of his innocence 50 years later and free him. It would suck to be in prison for 50 years for a crime you did not commit, but it is better than dying and never having the chance to be freed if you are proven innocent later.[/QUOTE]
That's why death penalty should be applied in cases where you have blatant evidence. Such as serial killers, serial rapists, violent murderers etc.
Anything that might be confusing should go straight for prison for life, as you said it.
So, you're wrong. I don't wanna pay taxes so serial killers can stay in jail.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;35767466]On a side note: I don't even know if a prisoner is capable of being institutionalized in Norwegian prison. At least I wouldn't think it to be common. Institutionalization means that you are so used to a life of confinement and the routines of prison that you are unable to effectively live on the outside. However, Norwegian prison basically puts all the focus on effectively living on the outside, so when prisoners leave they have the tools they need to succeed.[/QUOTE]
Pretty off-topic but..
I lived in an orphanage for 5 years, and after that i moved to a reinforced foster home for a couple of more years.
When I eventually got home, I was heavily institutionalized.
And of course, some stupid phsychologist wanted to convince me and my mom that i had asperges because of my unnatural behaviour :v:
I am pretty sure it costs more to kill people than to keep them. Too lazy to look it up though. And a lot of the time you can't 100% prove things.
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