• ex-Bungie compared to 343 Industries (CrowbCat)
    197 replies, posted
[QUOTE=T553412;51012647]I'm kind of torn on the Pelican. On one hand, the new Pelican sorta resembles a Hind, which by all means is a beautiful aircraft. [t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/4/46/H4-PelicanDropship.png[/t] On the other hand, it doesn't has the same charm as the original, boxy yet meaner looking, Pelican [t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/1/1a/PelicansAnniversary.png[/t][/QUOTE] both that fat lump on its ass and the bubbly separated cockpit glass breaks the curve along the top. It'd make more sense if it were designed more like a helicopter I'd forgive the style (and I know it's VTOL but it's very spaceship/plane like in form and flight), but as it stands that breaks the entire 'look' of the ship
[QUOTE=paindoc;51012597] Don't even get me started on how hard they fucked the visual design of the Pelican and UNSC Naval Vessels though. I will [I]never[/I] forgive them for fucking the Pelican up. So much of what made Halo neat and inspirational for me is how realistic the tech was, it felt like what humans would have made if they could. FTL sucked but it works. Our best weapons are big fucking railguns and missiles. Fusion power unlocked the solar system. The armor had gel inside to fight against the whole "inertia is a bitch" thing that most futuristic armor suits seem to forget. etc.[/QUOTE] Yeah i totally agree. All the designs in halo felt like this is where we'd be in a hundred years because it was so based. So much sifi is just stupid don't mind the man behind the curtain bullshit, and the grounded nature of halo's world is what really sold me on it
The thing about Bungie art design was that everything was damn well distinct. Humanity was either based off of realistic weapons and tech/uniform, or boxy as fuck in a utilitarian fashion yet still workable. Those human cities were a mix of both, using hardware limitation abstraction and some clever workarounds to make the environments seem like real futuristic cities without coming off as abnormal. The Covenant were rounded, often sticking glowing things, but they were also [i]usually[/i] lacking in greeble besides here and there, often very simplistic designs (relatively) besides a few things that stuck out. If anything, they were 'simple exteriors' that hid complex interiors, like the Needler Rifle stuff. And the Forerunners were extremely angular, geometric, and very (no pun intended) spartan, sparse as if they didn't even remotely need to care for aesthetic. If the Covenant hide complexity, the Forerunners were the definition of "it just works" when it came to their technology in a rather simple, ambiguous way. Considering the Covenant stole and repurposed Forerunner tech, it helped differentiate them still. 343 turned it into this weird idea that humanity also started using Forerunner tech and in five years suddenly everything is more rounded, filled with gratuitous and excessive detail that makes no sense practically or aesthetically (as the shotgun comparison before shows). While Reach, er, 'reached' into tacticool a little bit, 343 went and mixed this weird design aesthetic with tacticool attempts and it goes all over the place. Covenant simplicity gets toned down as more detail is there, but this isn't as excessive (though the Covenant themselves look almost completely different compared to what they did before). And the Forerunners? Well, their stuff suddenly turns into the modern sci-fi shtick of "white and gray greeble bits and lights everywhere with overly complicated geometry that makes no sense whatsoever because it's eyecatching and alien". Suddenly the sparse detail of Forerunner stuff before transformed into fucking detail everywhere as almost everything is either incredibly angular, floating and shifting about, or glowing. Even the Promethean weaponry is all a bunch of highly angular and detailed parts that basically float together and stabilize to fire blasts that disintegrate people from existence. It's like 343's artists wanted to do their own thing entirely but were constrained by Halo as a series and just threw their ideas at what was there and decided what stuck. [editline]7th September 2016[/editline] It also doesn't help that while human faces were ugly as sin in Bungie's games (until Reach, maybe 3 depending on your viewpoint), suddenly 343 went straight into facial motion capture detail, 'realistic' faces, and a lot of high-budget CGI flung around, so now these caricatures transformed into uncanny people that still don't look quite right up close no matter how well the CGI is done. And let me tell you, Blur is damn good at their craft, so that's a damn shame.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;51013132] [editline]7th September 2016[/editline] It also doesn't help that while human faces were ugly as sin in Bungie's games (until Reach, maybe 3 depending on your viewpoint), suddenly 343 went straight into facial motion capture detail, 'realistic' faces, and a lot of high-budget CGI flung around, so now these caricatures transformed into uncanny people that still don't look quite right up close no matter how well the CGI is done. And let me tell you, Blur is damn good at their craft, so that's a damn shame.[/QUOTE] 343 did good by the faces of characters though? (excluding Halo Wars 2, but that was entirely Blur's fault) [IMG]http://www.haloarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/2955851011_1_16_CWkouHU1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://cdn2.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/000/309/194/20141121052204/smaller_square/etienne-jabbour-hood1.jpg?1443930793[/IMG] [IMG_thumb]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/legendsofthemultiuniverse/images/b/b0/Halo_2_Hood.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140720001431[/IMG_thumb] [IMG_thumb]http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/cocop/The%20Storm%20Has%20Passed/The%20Storm%20Has%20Passed%20Large/Hood1-large.jpg[/IMG_thumb] [IMG_thumb]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/7/7c/Lordhoodhalo.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20131222173039[/IMG_thumb] [IMG]https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/encyclopedia/characters/miranda-keyes/miranda-keyes-thumbnail-708x398-108cf74502254a54967268165ecea353.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://s1.postimg.io/9ax7jw4kv/Halo_2_Anniversary_Miranda.png[/IMG] [IMG_thumb]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/b/be/Miranda_Vista.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070521213909[/IMG_thumb] [IMG_thumb]http://www.electricblueskies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Halo-3-Crows-Nest-04-Miranda-Keyes.jpg[/IMG_thumb] They're most certainly not bad, and at the very least the lighting on them isn't going to give you nightmares.
Halo's story being shit now wouldn't hurt as bad if Bungie went off to make better things, but Destiny's writing (or lack thereof) is a total joke and complete fucking train wreck that makes even 343's Halo feel like the fucking Citizen Kane of gaming when you compare the two. I really want to say it feels awful to be a Halo fan right now, but hey, Halo 5 forge on PC looks pretty neat.
[QUOTE=Fouytan222;51013629]Halo's story being shit now wouldn't hurt as bad if Bungie went off to make better things, but Destiny's writing (or lack thereof) is a total joke and complete fucking train wreck that makes even 343's Halo feel like the fucking Citizen Kane of gaming when you compare the two. I really want to say it feels awful to be a Halo fan right now, but hey, Halo 5 forge on PC looks pretty neat.[/QUOTE] If you read the grimoire cards the writing is actually pretty good in Destiny it's just a shame activision screwed the game over.
[QUOTE=Fouytan222;51013629]Halo's story being shit now wouldn't hurt as bad if Bungie went off to make better things, but Destiny's writing (or lack thereof) is a total joke and complete fucking train wreck that makes even 343's Halo feel like the fucking Citizen Kane of gaming when you compare the two. I really want to say it feels awful to be a Halo fan right now, but hey, Halo 5 forge on PC looks pretty neat.[/QUOTE] Destiny's had its flaws, but nowhere near the level that it would make 343's stuff look good for one thing, there's only been one destiny, so their fuckups are self-contained instead of shitting on an established and beloved franchise
[QUOTE=Fouytan222;51013629]Halo's story being shit now wouldn't hurt as bad if Bungie went off to make better things, but Destiny's writing (or lack thereof) is a total joke and complete fucking train wreck that makes even 343's Halo feel like the fucking Citizen Kane of gaming when you compare the two. I really want to say it feels awful to be a Halo fan right now, but hey, Halo 5 forge on PC looks pretty neat.[/QUOTE] Destiny was the one game that taught me never to pre-order, even from trusted developers. It was such a big disappointment.
[QUOTE=O'Neil;51013756]Destiny was the one game that taught me never to pre-order, even from trusted developers. It was such a big disappointment.[/QUOTE] Keyword being was
[QUOTE=T553412;51012647]I'm kind of torn on the Pelican. On one hand, the new Pelican sorta resembles a Hind, which by all means is a beautiful aircraft. [t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/4/46/H4-PelicanDropship.png[/t] On the other hand, it doesn't has the same charm as the original, boxy yet meaner looking, Pelican [t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/1/1a/PelicansAnniversary.png[/t][/QUOTE] I almost have more issue with this, because of all the redone designs they had to make not [I]shitler-tier[/I] they chose my personal favorite, so its a bit biased. But its a drastic design departure, regardless. It almost couldn't be more aesthetically removed - It happens to look like a gunship or dropship but that's it. The design doesn't make sense from a technical standpoint. Where are the articulation points for the thrusters in the wings? Why does it have such huge intakes, when its not primarily an air-breathing system (it works in vaccuum just as well)? Whats the random greebly shit just behind the main sensor pod? Why are the weapon mounts on the wings suddenly way more diminutive, and why add one at the edge of the wing too? What's with the random hump at the tail end? ugh. Its such a drastic departure, but they just "handwavium"-d the fuck out of it like they did with the chief's armor. Where did humans suddenly get nanites? If we have nanites that can do that, so much of the UNSC medical tech would've been way easier and spartans could have been self-healing or some shit. I really liked the books, too. I think the Kilo Five series is still decent, but that's because it avoids the forerunner nonsense.
yeah Eric Nylund's books were genuinely fantastic. The flood was kinda eh, mostly because it was a huge departure from Nylund's style and post 343 i only read the forerunner one with the didact in it, which was pretty bad on a conceptual level, though technically decently executed
[QUOTE=dai;51012962]both that fat lump on its ass and the bubbly separated cockpit glass breaks the curve along the top. It'd make more sense if it were designed more like a helicopter I'd forgive the style (and I know it's VTOL but it's very spaceship/plane like in form and flight), but as it stands that breaks the entire 'look' of the ship[/QUOTE] This is a UNSC Frigate in Halo 3, the design that was used since Halo 2 and in all the other Halo games until 4: [t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d5/H3_UNSC_FUD_HigherSide.png/revision/latest?cb=20130912001345[/t] In Halo 4, they proceeded to retcon it, and said the Forward Unto Dawn (and supposedly other UNSC frigates?) were this instead: [t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/e/e6/Strident_frigate.png/revision/latest?cb=20130413030529[/t] Like. Why.
I find the ship design retcons one of the most upsetting things I absolutely loved the ship designs in Halo but they turned them into generic shit
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;51015056]I find the ship design retcons one of the most upsetting things I absolutely loved the ship designs in Halo but they turned them into generic shit[/QUOTE] Stop stop stop you're [I]triggering me[/I] Honestly the UNSC ship designs are a large part of what inspired me to focus on working in the space industry, and working on fusion power plants. I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned the fusion into like some unobtanium shit. I mean ffs, bungie even chose a sensical fuel type and gave the Autumn a prototype reactor that made a fair amount of sense ;_; If I ever get to lay down the hull or systems design of a human space vessel I will shamelessly steal inspiration from Bungie Halo lol
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51014998]This is a UNSC Frigate in Halo 3, the design that was used since Halo 2 and in all the other Halo games until 4: [t]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/d/d5/H3_UNSC_FUD_HigherSide.png/revision/latest?cb=20130912001345[/t] In Halo 4, they proceeded to retcon it, and said the Forward Unto Dawn (and supposedly other UNSC frigates?) were this instead: [t]http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/e/e6/Strident_frigate.png/revision/latest?cb=20130413030529[/t] Like. Why.[/QUOTE] That's a Strident-class frigate, the Forward Unto Dawn is canonically a Charon-class frigate. [url]https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/canon-fodder-have-s-moa[/url] [QUOTE=HALO Waypoint] [B]What is the canonical design of the Charon-class Frigate? The one featured in Halo 3, or Halo 4? - Onyx81[/B] Halo 3 shows the canonical Charon-class, while Halo 4 introduced us to the Strident-class of UNSC frigates. [/QUOTE] [url]https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/universe/vehicles/forward-unto-dawn[/url] [QUOTE=HALO Waypoint's article on the FUD] Class: Charon-class Light Frigate [/QUOTE] The canonical version of the Forward Unto Dawn is the Charon-class. It was changed in Halo 4 due to how small the Forward Unto Dawn was, to avoid backtracking they changed it so that they would have a larger space to create a level with. [IMG]http://www.halopedia.org/images/5/53/FUD_H3-Hyperion_H4-scaled2.jpg[/IMG]
Still just as bad
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51015407]Still just as bad[/QUOTE] How so? Bungie did the same thing back in Halo CE with the Maw. Is using a different design for gameplay reasons really as bad as outright retconning the original design?
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51015431]How so? Bungie did the same thing back in Halo CE with the Maw. Is using a different design for gameplay reasons really as bad as outright retconning the original design?[/QUOTE] To be fair, the Autumn is pretty damn large, little more than a kilometer in length. It isn't until you go into the editor that you see the [B]huge[/B] discrepancy between the Autumn's model and the level's layout.
[QUOTE=T553412;51015495]To be fair, the Autumn is pretty damn large, little more than a kilometer in length. It isn't until you go into the editor that you see the [B]huge[/B] discrepancy between the Autumn's model and the level's layout.[/QUOTE] Not true at all. I remember reading in the booklet for CE when I first got it that the Autumn was 1.5 kilometers long and later realizing that the Maw was roughly 3.5 kilometers. Then there's the big gap in the level were Foehammer gets shot down. Both levels were distant from the lore to provide a better gameplay experience. The FUD is roughly 200 meters long and 100 meters high post-Halo 3. 343 doesn't have as much of an excuse as Bungie did since they didn't even bother to make it look like it's supposed to, but if we're going to bash 343 we should at least bash them for something they deserve.
It's not that they made the FUD larger for gameplay, it's that the FUD doesn't even remotely resemble what it once was and might as well be a different ship in Halo 4 altogether. Again, they had all the excuses in the world to have an outdated Chief with whatever old gear and shit he can assemble from the wreckage, stuck on an alien world once more where things have gotten weird and unpredictable, and if they really wanted to change Chief up, they could've given him new armor or an upgrade when he met up with the Infinity. Instead everything is suddenly new and revised, the FUD suddenly doesn't even adhere to what little room design we saw in Halo 3 (much less ship designs overall), and Chief and his gear are all transformed through magical nanomachines to resemble SPARTAN-IV tech off-screen with a handwave.
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51013597] [IMG]https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/encyclopedia/characters/miranda-keyes/miranda-keyes-thumbnail-708x398-108cf74502254a54967268165ecea353.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]https://s1.postimg.io/9ax7jw4kv/Halo_2_Anniversary_Miranda.png[/IMG] [IMG_thumb]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/b/be/Miranda_Vista.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070521213909[/IMG_thumb] [IMG_thumb]http://www.electricblueskies.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Halo-3-Crows-Nest-04-Miranda-Keyes.jpg[/IMG_thumb] They're most certainly not bad, and at the very least the lighting on them isn't going to give you nightmares.[/QUOTE] Why did Miranda look so much older in Anniversary? I got the impression from 2 and 3 that she was more in her late 20s or early 30s, not like 45.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;51015730]It's not that they made the FUD larger for gameplay, it's that the FUD doesn't even remotely resemble what it once was and might as well be a different ship in Halo 4 altogether.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I realized. But my counterpoint was that they had a reason for changing things, and that the ship is still canonically the exact same one we saw in Halo 3. There was no retcon. The likely reason for why they chose not to use a similar design to the original is budget issues, you never see the whole FUD outside of two? cutscenes. Strident assets were ready to go, and wouldn't use up much more of the budget. EDIT: You hadn't added this when I first saw your post. [QUOTE=RikohZX;51015730] Again, they had all the excuses in the world to have an outdated Chief with whatever old gear and shit he can assemble from the wreckage, stuck on an alien world once more where things have gotten weird and unpredictable, and if they really wanted to change Chief up, they could've given him new armor or an upgrade when he met up with the Infinity. Instead everything is suddenly new and revised, the FUD suddenly doesn't even adhere to what little room design we saw in Halo 3 (much less ship designs overall), and Chief and his gear are all transformed through magical nanomachines to resemble SPARTAN-IV tech off-screen with a handwave.[/QUOTE] This was actually explained recently. I can't find the source, but they couldn't fit another set of armor for Chief on the disc and they came up with the nanomachine excuse for fanboys. Same thing with the Warthogs that came off of the FUD I'd imagine.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51015796]Why did Miranda look so much older in Anniversary? I got the impression from 2 and 3 that she was more in her late 20s or early 30s, not like 45.[/QUOTE] i think the change was for it to have made more sense from a military perspective, as it doesn't make a lot of sense for a 20-30's year old person to be commanding an entire ship
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51015796]Why did Miranda look so much older in Anniversary? I got the impression from 2 and 3 that she was more in her late 20s or early 30s, not like 45.[/QUOTE] They wanted her to look more like her mother, but now that you mention it if Halsey had her after conscripting the Spartan IIs she shouldn't be older than 30
[QUOTE=d00msdaydan;51015864]They wanted her to look more like her mother, but now that you mention it if Halsey had her after conscripting the Spartan IIs she shouldn't be older than 30[/QUOTE] Not the worst change 343 has done to a character. [IMG]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/5/5f/HalseyPod_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100427122119[/IMG] This is meant to be Halsey :suicide:
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51015871]Not the worst change 343 has done to a character. [IMG]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/5/5f/HalseyPod_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100427122119[/IMG] This is meant to be Halsey :suicide:[/QUOTE] To be fair, this was back when 343 was a subsidiary and Bungie was still working on Reach; Legends would release in February 2010, Reach in September later that year. And besides one or two shorts, Legends was kind of a mess. But I think that comes down to the fact that every short was by a different studio.
I haven't played a Halo game past ODST despite my username. What the fuck happened?
[QUOTE=haloguy234;51016808]I haven't played a Halo game past ODST despite my username. What the fuck happened?[/QUOTE] Uuuh nothing? ODST was the last halo game, duh.
[QUOTE=AbbaDee;51015823]Yeah, I realized. But my counterpoint was that they had a reason for changing things, and that the ship is still canonically the exact same one we saw in Halo 3. There was no retcon. The likely reason for why they chose not to use a similar design to the original is budget issues, you never see the whole FUD outside of two? cutscenes. Strident assets were ready to go, and wouldn't use up much more of the budget. EDIT: You hadn't added this when I first saw your post. This was actually explained recently. I can't find the source, but they couldn't fit another set of armor for Chief on the disc and they came up with the nanomachine excuse for fanboys. Same thing with the Warthogs that came off of the FUD I'd imagine.[/QUOTE] Because it's not a necessary changes. There are so many ways around the problem that don't involve retconning one of the most iconic ships in Halo into an unimaginable blob that doesn't even make sense in canon. It's still a UNSC frigate and it's not like Chief does a warthog run in the first mission. They still proceeded to make the scale retarded when chief jumps by the Covenant cruisers and they're practically bite sized.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51015796]Why did Miranda look so much older in Anniversary? I got the impression from 2 and 3 that she was more in her late 20s or early 30s, not like 45.[/QUOTE] Because the crux of Blur's current facial animation/ modeling workflow is that it must be all based in scan data. They cast to likeness and then had the actors act, and their stacks of systems spat out what you see. Maybe they could have chosen an actress that looks closer, but I'm really forgiving of her because her pretty damn good facial performance breathed some life into Halo 2 Miranda's horrible fucking awful terrible voice performance. This is also why Cutter (and everyone else) looks so different in Halo Wars 2. [editline]8th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RikohZX;51015981]To be fair, this was back when 343 was a subsidiary and Bungie was still working on Reach; Legends would release in February 2010, Reach in September later that year. And besides one or two shorts, Legends was kind of a mess. But I think that comes down to the fact that every short was by a different studio.[/QUOTE] Nah, it comes from the fact that they used Japanese studios to try and copy the success of Animatrix and Batman: Gotham Knight when Japan in general doesn't give a fuck about Halo. Hell, you watch the commentary for The Package and Frank pretty much flat out goes "yeah, they made Halsey look like that because they wanted a waifu in the short."
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