Men's rights speech by Dr. Warren Farrell disrupted by radical violent feminist - General

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40146268]Kissing =/= sex[/QUOTE] Making out in her bedroom after a date = high chance of sex. We've been through this. But lets do this the other way around. When should I think that a girl wants to have sex with me without being a frighteningly socially retarded fuck? I guess kissing in her bedroom doesn't mean that. How about kissing in her bedroom naked? How about getting a blowjob in her bedroom naked? How about when she's riding my dick and the bed is falling apart?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146313]Making out in her bedroom after a date = high chance of sex[/quote] um can you please post your source? i'd love to see the data on this [quote]But lets do this the other way around. When should I think that a girl wants to have sex with me without being a frighteningly socially retarded fuck? I guess kissing in her bedroom doesn't mean that. How about kissing in her bedroom naked? How about getting a blowjob in her bedroom naked? How about when she's riding my dick and the bed is falling apart?[/quote] omg ur so dumb of course any of those situations means she might want sex, but there's also a chance she doesn't want to go any further than wherever it is you're at right there and then. it's fine for you to [I]expect[/I] sex in any of those situations - we've all been there (well maybe you haven't considering your attitude to it) - but to be offended and think you've been tricked by a fraudster when she doesn't want to have sex is just flat out retarded

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146340]um can you please post your source? i'd love to see the data on this[/QUOTE] Well OBVIOUSLY when you engage in mouth on mouth skinship, your alpha male salival glands activate the coitus sensors in her salival glands.

Silly Sil vs thisispain vs MaxofS2d I can already tell this thread is going to end up as a nominee for the worst thread 2013.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146284]wow. a room with a flat comfy surface known as a bed? and making-out? yep she definitely wants sex 100% - she practically just told you she does! so when she says "sorry i'd like to take it a bit slower"[/QUOTE] I've never seen so many strawmen in one post. Never said 100%. But it's likely. And it's even more likely the guy is gonna think that. "sorry i'd like to take it a bit slower" I covered that in a previous post. [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146284]you can either storm out and tell her she's a fraud or just have your way with her anyway cos she's obviously a bitch[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146284]i might think she might want to have sex. i'd test the water. i might make a move. the moment she says "i don't want to have sex" i'd be all like "oh sorry that's cool yeh let's take it slow"[/QUOTE] And no, if it's clear what her intentions are, it's clearly not fraud. What are you even talking about? [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146340]um can you please post your source? i'd love to see the data on this[/QUOTE] Wouldn't you say that from non-verbal things that can indicate she wants to have sex (before taking off your clothes) this would be the most probable one? [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146340]omg ur so dumb[/QUOTE] So if I assume she wants to have sex I'm a socially retarded fuck, but if I don't I'm dumb. Okay. No seriously, inviting a guy to your bedroom after a date and making out, is likely to make him believe you'll have sex. What the fuck is so hard to understand? And before you go with another strawman I myself would never "go for it" if she said "no" but continued to make out. But there might be someone that does. And before another strawman, no it's not okay. [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146340]of course any of those situations means she might want sex, but there's also a chance she doesn't want to go any further than wherever it is you're at right there and then. it's fine for you to [I]expect[/I] sex in any of those situations - we've all been there (well maybe you haven't considering your attitude to it) - but to be offended and think you've been tricked by a fraudster when she doesn't want to have sex is just flat out retarded[/QUOTE] You called me a socially retarded fuck, now you're saying it's okay to expect sex? Are you bipolar? And again, we're not talking about situation when her intentions are clear. If she says, "no, I want to take it slow" when you try to pull her blouse off, you know what you stand on, so how could that be fraud?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146504]how could that be fraud?[/QUOTE] uh that's exactly what i've been asking you?? i dunno buddy you fucking said it [quote]Think about this for a second. If your date makes you believe that you're gonna have sex but he/she gets satisfied by making out and doesn't want to go any further, what are you gonna call that? Fraud[/quote] [quote]making your date think that you're gonna have sex and then not doing it, while getting some satisfaction/pleasure out of it, is from definition, fraud[/quote] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146504]You called me a socially retarded fuck, now you're saying it's okay to expect sex?[/QUOTE] jesus why is this so hard i'm not telling you it's wrong to expect sex - everyone has been in situations where they expected sex from it and it doesn't happen - i'm telling you it's wrong to call someone a fraud for not wanting to have sex with you just because you got some sort of signal that they did, as if you have a right to sex just because you interpreted one or many of any thousands of social cues in a positive way

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;40144637]i heard something about him being a former feminist or something like that[/QUOTE] Yeah, his wikipedia page says he was a chairman or something like that at the NYC Board of National Organization of Women before leaving when they made policies he regarded as anti-father and such. [QUOTE=Zeke129;40144686]So in other words you think being seductive should be punishable by rape [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] - Farrell on the 3% of cases of incest involving children that are good [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] - Farrell on how we should be caressing the genitals of our children to promote healthy sexual expression[/QUOTE] uhhh you got some sources on those edit: okay i found a interview between farrel and someone else on the incest part [URL]http://www.menweb.org/svofarre.htm[/URL] yeah that was an analogy. and most of it is just twisting his words anyway, you can just google 'warren farrel incest' and most of it is links of him showing that he doesn't actually support it.

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;40146503]Silly Sil vs thisispain vs MaxofS2d I can already tell this thread is going to end up as a nominee for the worst thread 2013.[/QUOTE] This happens very often when the subject of feminism, MRA's, etc. comes up on facepunch (people on both sides going at it). I hope this won't be another thread where they (and any others on either side that decide to join in) just go back and forth for pages upon pages until one side says "This is pointless" and leaves.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146546]uh that's exactly what i've been asking you?? i dunno buddy you fucking said it[/QUOTE] Read that second quote. The satisfaction/pleasure thing was about getting it from keeping the guy's hopes up, but denying his advances without making it clear that it's not gonna happen, or I could call it being a cocktease. If the guy "tests the water" and he gets clear information that they can make out but she won't take her blouse of or whatever, it's a completely different story. And again before the strawman I stop at the first "no" verbal or non-verbal. Not everyone does. And it's not crystal clear every time either.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146682]Read that second quote. The satisfaction/pleasure thing was about getting it from keeping the guy's hopes up, but denying his advances without making it clear that it's not gonna happen, or I could call it being a cocktease[/QUOTE] but you got called out on this a page ago because this argument is totally shitty because there's no concrete way you can ever say that any party has deliberately led on the other party for personal enjoyment - it's all complete subjective interpretation of emotions. it just sounds like an excuse for someone to be vindictive like "oh that cockteasing bitch"

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146105] No really how would you call making someone believe he's gonna get something, not giving it to them and getting pleasure from all that?[/QUOTE] sounds like fun if she could slap me and call me a bastard too it would make my day

man i'm so tired of this feminism/men's rights debate it's literally just devolved into fingerpointing and yelling "die cis scum" at this point, and i'm an advocate for feminism :/ one thing that i would love to see is the recognition that rape is wrong in any case, and for both mras and feminists to stop crusading to the point where they actually begin parodying their own movements through their rhetoric i understand the need for a feminine-friendly society and i'm totally supportive of it, but i'm becoming really tired of the empty rhetoric offered by both sides, the pointless arguments that devolve into derisive, baseless criticisms of both men and women, and the ignorance both sides possess mras seem to be incapable of understanding that rape and sexual assault are traumatic experiences, and perpetrating them in any way is wrong, and on the other end of the spectrum, feminists seem to be incapable of understanding that not all men want to support oppression, that some of us are actually pretty alright (i dated a feminist who thought that i was a woman-hating pig :/) i don't mean to generalize both movements, but that's what they've become to me at this point - and i also don't intend to advocate pacifistic activism on either's part, because it's the spirit of activism that brings about change. however, there is a specific point at which activism becomes an annoyance, and i think both movements have reached that point it could just be the way social media/media in general portrays both, though, opting for a status quo - i know there are pretty low-key mras and low-key feminists (i know both types), but i'm still pretty sick of the way these movements are looping into themselves in a self-parodying manner

Wait what are you guys even arguing about? If a woman "leads you on" and stops just short of sex, sure you could think of her as a bit of a flirt (or see her behavior as being dickish,) but that's your personal opinion, not some objective standard upon which all dates are judged.

[QUOTE=person11;40146193]When people complain about protesters who say bad things about calm MRA people I think of this image [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/6e58b0716d443fbe0501833f7da62136/tumblr_mhkxv1zGwk1rabj8wo1_1280.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] But even if one side is standing up for equal rights but being loud, aggressive, and attacking it doesn't make that side look good to some people and the other side more attractive as they seem to be the "calm and rational" ones despite how despicable/evil that side advocating whatever may be. If they want to look good then they should debate/protest more peacefully and people might be more sympathetic to their cause. I'm not saying I would agree to the person who's advocating something bad/evil but acting calm and rational but it makes the side I'd be with look bad.

[QUOTE=SystemGS;40146804]it's literally just devolved into fingerpointing and yelling "die cis scum" at this point[/QUOTE] no one actually does this

don't understand why we're even having a debate on women's consent though, if a woman says no it's pretty clear she means no like if you say no to something it's pretty obvious that you don't want it, it's pretty simple :/

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40146843]no one actually does this[/QUOTE] But Tumblr does it and they're a perfect representation of the population!

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40146843]no one actually does this[/QUOTE] i write up a big long thing and max ignores it to point out the generalization i admitted to later in the post please don't do this

the rule isnt no means no the rule is yes means yes theres no consent unless the person actually consents

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146732]but you got called out on this a page ago because this argument is totally shitty because there's no concrete way you can ever say that any party has deliberately led on the other party for personal enjoyment - it's all complete subjective interpretation of emotions. it just sounds like an excuse for someone to be vindictive like "oh that cockteasing bitch"[/QUOTE] 3 options. 1. The girl changes her mind, doesn't want to continue at all. She has a bf, thinks that having sex on the first date is too fast, whatever. No problem. A let down at most. She didn't do that intentionally. 2. The girl you're with wants to take it slow. She never intended to have sex with you this night. But you could have misinterpreted that and hoped for more. You try to take off her clothes and she stops you. You know your limits. 3. The girl gets most of her enjoyment from your denied attempts. During the same night she switches the limits back and forth, playing with you. And you can see how much she's enjoying your growing frustration. And she won't give you straight answer what she wants either. I've been in all 3 instances. And in this thread I was only talking about the third one. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=thisispain;40146864]the rule isnt no means no the rule is yes means yes theres no consent unless the person actually consents[/QUOTE] Is this one of those "a girl must actually, verbally say "I want to have sex" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex" otherwise it's rape if you do it"?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146885]3 options. 1. The girl changes her mind, doesn't want to continue at all. She has a bf, thinks that having sex on the first date is too fast, whatever. No problem. A let down at most. She didn't do that intentionally. 2. The girl you're with wants to take it slow. She never intended to have sex with you this night. But you could have misinterpreted that and hoped for more. You try to take off her clothes and she stops you. You know your limits. 3. The girl gets most of her enjoyment from your denied attempts. During the same night she switches the limits back and forth, playing with you. And you can see how much she's enjoying your growing frustration. And she won't give you straight answer what she wants either. I've been in all 3 instances. And in this thread I was only talking about the third one. [/QUOTE] Ok, if you're able to prove that's why she did it then it makes her a dick... ... And?

[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;40146940]Ok, if you're able to prove that's why she did it then it makes her a dick... ... And?[/QUOTE] And it makes the entire thing a fraud, which was the fucking argument for 3 pages now.

[QUOTE=SystemGS;40146852]don't understand why we're even having a debate on women's consent though, if a woman says no it's pretty clear she means no [B]like if you say no to something it's pretty obvious that you don't want it, it's pretty simple :/[/B][/QUOTE] Yet thousands of women (and to a lesser extent men) get raped each day. As long as there is a single rape occuring we need this debate.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146105]This is the best rebuttal you can make? And before you go "your argument is extremely dumb on it's own" or something like that. If it is, then surely it's easy to rebut? Right? No really how would you call making someone believe he's gonna get something, not giving it to them and getting pleasure from all that?[/QUOTE] You're a joke, mate.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146885]3. The girl gets most of her enjoyment from your denied attempts. During the same night she switches the limits back and forth, playing with you. And you can see how much she's enjoying your growing frustration. And she won't give you straight answer what she wants either[/QUOTE] lol this exists? [I]this[/I] is the instance you were talking about this whole time? wow you say this has happened to you but the melodramatic way in which you've described it makes you sound really bitter and mental and i doubt it even went down like that but neither of us have proof because your story is just an account of your subjective (weird) interpretation of social cues

[QUOTE=demoguy08;40146975]Yet thousands of women (and to a lesser extent men) get raped each day. As long as there is a single rape occuring we need this debate.[/QUOTE] i meant it in the context of this thread, i understand the need for the inter/national debate of course

[QUOTE=SystemGS;40146999]i meant it in the context of this thread, i understand the need for the inter/national debate of course[/QUOTE] This is, for all intents and purposes, an international debate. And we've obviously got individuals in this thread who don't quite get the message.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146995]you say this has happened to you but the melodramatic way in which you've described it makes you sound really bitter and mental and i doubt it even went down like that[/QUOTE] Sorry I don't have a better way of describing something that... weird. And I don't think that anyone would describe situation like in a nice way if they experienced it first hand. Couldn't say it felt nice. [QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;40146995]but neither of us have proof because your story is just an account of your subjective (weird) interpretation of social cues[/QUOTE] I dunno, a big smile of satisfaction is pretty hard to misinterpret. And it took me a while to understand her intentions correctly too, I didn't think that people like that exist either, let alone that I'd end up in bed with one.

[QUOTE=demoguy08;40147014]This is, for all intents and purposes, an international debate. And we've obviously got individuals in this thread who don't quite get the message.[/QUOTE] and that makes sense, i'm a total advocate for an international debate on this issue, but with the tired rhetoric and the portrayal of the self-parodying nature of both parties, little to no progress will be made it's so annoying to see that people still haven't gotten the message of respecting individual rights, and i think that's what infuriates me so much - but at the same time, it's the self-righteous and pretentious attitude that a lot of advocates reek of, because they believe in their own moral superiority over mras and people who aren't informed on the debate even on facepunch you have a sizable minority that believes in its own moral superiority over mras and the uninformed which perpetuates a negative image of feminism - it really doesn't accomplish anything. at the same time, i'm completely wary of forcing pacifistic activism and muffling opposition to the majority's views, but honestly, when you are advocating for something on the internet, you aren't supposed to laugh at the person you're trying to convince i still see a need for a debate on the issue, but without the pretension or moral superiority bullshit that both parties entertain

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146885]3 options. 1. The girl changes her mind, doesn't want to continue at all. She has a bf, thinks that having sex on the first date is too fast, whatever. No problem. A let down at most. She didn't do that intentionally. 2. The girl you're with wants to take it slow. She never intended to have sex with you this night. But you could have misinterpreted that and hoped for more. You try to take off her clothes and she stops you. You know your limits. 3. The girl gets most of her enjoyment from your denied attempts. During the same night she switches the limits back and forth, playing with you. And you can see how much she's enjoying your growing frustration. And she won't give you straight answer what she wants either. I've been in all 3 instances. And in this thread I was only talking about the third one. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] Is this one of those "a girl must actually, verbally say "I want to have sex" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex" otherwise it's rape if you do it"?[/QUOTE] have you ever had sex m8 unless youre an awkward quiet teenager having sex with other awkward quiet teenagers, usually a sex partner will say something that lets you know they are consenting; whether its a "lets do this" or a "pretend you're a TSA agent and strip search me"