Men's rights speech by Dr. Warren Farrell disrupted by radical violent feminist - General

[QUOTE=thisispain;40147325]have you ever had sex m8 unless youre an awkward quiet teenager having sex with other awkward quiet teenagers, usually a sex partner will say something that lets you know they are consenting; whether its a "lets do this" or a "pretend you're a TSA agent and strip search me"[/QUOTE] I don't think more than 20% of the times I had sex we said anything of the sort, especially with the girl I was for 2 years. We'd just start making out, take our clothes off and fuck. And so, unless sucking my cock or riding it is a sign of consent, I'm a serial rapist.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40147405]I don't think more than 20% of the times I had sex we said anything of the sort, especially with the girl I was for 2 years. We'd just start making out, take our clothes off and fuck. And so, unless sucking my cock or riding it is a sign of consent, I'm a serial rapist.[/QUOTE] Did you completely forget the pep talk we had last time? Consent isn't always explicit. Stop pretending that's what everyone's saying, because it's really not. It doesn't have to be a verbal "yes", it doesn't even have to be verbal, consent implies that the person you're going to have sex with reciprocates your advances and doesn't express reluctance to them. If someone says no, it's no. It's not fraud, it's not an evil machination to hurt your feelings, it's just a refusal. [editline]besides[/editline] also your posts are really awkward + weird pls stop

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40147405]I don't think more than 20% of the times I had sex we said anything of the sort, especially with the girl I was for 2 years. We'd just start making out, take our clothes off and fuck. And so, unless sucking my cock or riding it is a sign of consent, I'm a serial rapist.[/QUOTE] thats awkward

Coming Soon : Sex must first be agreed to by both parties with a signed legal contract to avoid any issues. I wouldn't even give 2 shits if it stopped these god-awful threads.

[QUOTE=entertainer89;40147472]Coming Soon : Sex must first be agreed to by both parties with a signed legal contract to avoid any issues. I wouldn't even give 2 shits if it stopped these god-awful threads.[/QUOTE] Read above. Or not. Ignorance is bliss from what I've heard.

[QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40147451]Did you completely forget the pep talk we had last time? Consent isn't always explicit. Stop pretending that's what everyone's saying, because it's really not. It doesn't have to be a verbal "yes", it doesn't even have to be verbal, consent implies that the person you're going to have sex with reciprocates your advances and doesn't express reluctance to them. [/QUOTE] Yeah I remember. I replied to what thisispain said. Just because we've come to an agreement, doesn't mean I can't reply to what he said on the same subject. [QUOTE=Dr. Gestapo;40147451]If someone says no, it's no. It's not fraud, it's not an evil machination to hurt your feelings, it's just a refusal.[/QUOTE] Check the top of this page or bottom of the last one. Lets not have another misunderstanding for another 3 pages :v: [QUOTE=thisispain;40147457]thats awkward[/QUOTE] I think that it's awkward when you need someone to explicitly tell you that they want to have sex or you will be afraid of raping them.

[QUOTE=person11;40146193]When people complain about protesters who say bad things about calm MRA people I think of this image [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/6e58b0716d443fbe0501833f7da62136/tumblr_mhkxv1zGwk1rabj8wo1_1280.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] You don't really compare Mens Rights Activists to Adolf Hitler?

Sil, your posts throughout this thread keep sending me mixed messages. You start to defend Farrell's "date fraud" bullshit, but then keep denying that you're dismissive of date rape. Farrell's quote was trying to equate being raped by your date to being as bad as your date being a tease, later saying "back in my day we didn't call it date rape, we called it 'exciting'". Your arguments keep defending the first part of his quote (about the 'date fraud'), making us think that you're trying to defend date rape, but then you keep denying that and saying you only want to defend the concept of 'date fraud'. And I think you're enjoying it. What else would I call this besides post fraud?

[QUOTE=Last or First;40147577]Sil, your posts throughout this thread keep sending me mixed messages. You start to defend Farrell's "date fraud" bullshit, but then keep denying that you're dismissive of date rape. Farrell's quote was trying to equate being raped by your date to being as bad as your date being a tease, later saying "back in my day we didn't call it date rape, we called it 'exciting'". Your arguments keep defending the first part of his quote (about the 'date fraud'), making us think that you're trying to defend date rape, but then you keep denying that and saying you only want to defend the concept of 'date fraud'. And I think you're enjoying it. What else would I call this besides post fraud?[/QUOTE] Actually going with that figurative I got gang post raped because everyone who attacked me misinterpreted my intentions and did what they wanted anyway, while I kept saying "no that's not what I meant".

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40147488] I think that it's awkward when you need someone to explicitly tell you that they want to have sex or you will be afraid of raping them.[/QUOTE] not really awkward, its pretty simple i mean you can be like entertainer89 and be stupendously pedantic by assuming that i literally mean asking if you can have sex; or you can like use some critical thinking and assume that i mean reciprocation of any sexual or romantic contact but srsly not saying anything during that whole time would be so awkward [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40147661]Actually going with that figurative I got gang post raped because everyone who attacked me misinterpreted my intentions and did what they wanted anyway, while I kept saying "no that's not what I meant".[/QUOTE] then post what you actually mean and stop wasting our time

[QUOTE=thisispain;40147704]not really awkward, its pretty simple i mean you can be like entertainer89 and be stupendously pedantic by assuming that i literally mean asking if you can have sex; or you can like use some critical thinking and assume that i mean reciprocation of any sexual or romantic contact[/QUOTE] That's why I asked you. [QUOTE=thisispain;40147704]but srsly not saying anything during that whole time would be so awkward[/QUOTE] Why? If you're with someone for a long time it's pretty easy to read. I dunno maybe it's cultural difference, seems pretty normal to me. [QUOTE=thisispain;40147704] then post what you actually mean and stop wasting our time[/QUOTE] I thought that argument ended at the top of this page.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40145882]Can you read at all? Point it where it says "seductive behavior" in there. And wasn't your it position that you can't objectively say that behavior is seductive? Aaaaand did I say that rape is okay if they give you mixed signals? You can't read really well can you? Where does it say that it's not? Why do you keep replying to things that I haven't said? And I could swear we were talking about saying "no" verbally but continuing to be playful, not about getting drunk and understand what consent is. That's why I didn't focus on that.[/QUOTE] still blows me away that you come into every thread related to women's rights and then spew shit like this lol

ey man whatever works for you but quietness just makes me self-conscious forcing me to make jokes wouldnt surprise anyone to know ive been gagged before i reckon

btw if you can't tell the difference between someone that doesn't want to fuck you and someone that does you might want to talk to a doctor. get this; if you're raping someone, they'll let you know (unless they're unconscious in which case that's on you) [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] omg tpain what kind of gagging r we talkin about

[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40147846]still blows me away that you come into every thread related to women's rights and then spew shit like this lol[/QUOTE] I reply in those threads because sometimes they contain the weirdest logic. There was a guy in of those threads saying that it's not rape only if there's a vocal yes. Hell in this thread one guy said that body language is purely subjective and you just cannot base anything on it. That it's completely meaningless. And because of the circlejerk squad that goes around those threads posts like that often get many agrees. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40147870]btw if you can't tell the difference between someone that doesn't want to fuck you and someone that does you might want to talk to a doctor. get this; if you're raping someone, they'll let you know (unless they're unconscious in which case that's on you) [/QUOTE] Who are you even replying to?

How easy is it for a woman to get a man with a rape charge? I know it doesn't really happen but I've seen conversation logs where women threaten rape to get something. Does this actually happen? Also, is a man fucked if he is on the recieving end?

you say that contain weird logic, but are you even trying to make a point in counter, or just prove people wrong to feel better about yourself? what points have you made, what is your goal? to argue with a "group" just because they get "agrees"? wtf And if a point is meaningless why argue against it? You don't make any sense and it appears to me you are just arguing for the sake of it. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ellibob;40147965]How easy is it for a woman to get a man with a rape charge? I know it doesn't really happen but I've seen conversation logs where women threaten rape to get something. Does this actually happen? Also, is a man fucked if he is on the recieving end?[/QUOTE] it happens like once in a blue moon. what you should really be thinking about is how many women are raped and DON'T report it (hint: a lottttttt)

[QUOTE=ellibob;40147965]How easy is it for a woman to get a man with a rape charge? I know it doesn't really happen but I've seen conversation logs where women threaten rape to get something. Does this actually happen? Also, is a man fucked if he is on the recieving end?[/QUOTE] 0% fucked if she can't prove you had sex. Even if she can it's hard to prove it was rape and not consensual. [QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40147989]you say that contain weird logic, but are you even trying to make a point in counter, or just prove people wrong to feel better about yourself? what points have you made, what is your goal? to argue with a "group" just because they get "agrees"? wtf And if a point is meaningless why argue against it? You don't make any sense and it appears to me you are just arguing for the sake of it. [/QUOTE] If there's a group of people circlejerking about something that I completely disagree with, why is it wrong to have a discussion with them?

[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;40147989] it happens like once in a blue moon. what you should really be thinking about is how many women are raped and DON'T report it (hint: a lottttttt)[/QUOTE] Yeah I figured. But is it considered a charge just from word of mouth? I know younger females can be examined, that would be pretty awful. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148015]0% fucked if she can't prove you had sex. Even if she can it's hard to prove it was rape and not consensual. [/QUOTE] OK thanks

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40146885] 3. The girl gets most of her enjoyment from your denied attempts. During the same night she switches the limits back and forth, playing with you. And you can see how much she's enjoying your growing frustration. And she won't give you straight answer what she wants either.[/quote] ok and being a woman doesn't exempt people from being weird. going as far as to call the person a "fraudster" is just ridiculous. [quote]Is this one of those "a girl must actually, verbally say "I want to have sex" or answer "yes" to a question like "do you want to have sex" otherwise it's rape if you do it"?[/QUOTE] he never said anything about that. he said people have to consent to sex. lack of resistance is not explicit consent. when in doubt, ask. [editline]3rd April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=ellibob;40147965]How easy is it for a woman to get a man with a rape charge? I know it doesn't really happen but I've seen conversation logs where women threaten rape to get something. Does this actually happen? Also, is a man fucked if he is on the recieving end?[/QUOTE] it's hard to get convicted but easy to have your reputation damaged by an accusation.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40148120]ok and being a woman doesn't exempt people from being weird. going as far as to call the person a "fraudster" is just ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I dunno man it fits the definition of fraud so I don't see why not. [QUOTE=yawmwen;40148120]he never said anything about that. he said people have to consent to sex. lack of resistance is not explicit consent. when in doubt, ask.[/QUOTE] That's why it's a question. Turned out the answer was "no" so there's no argument from my side.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148175]I dunno man it fits the definition of fraud so I don't see why not.[/QUOTE] yea a ton of things fit the definition of fraud. technically most people commit "fraud" and can be labeled a fraudster. it's still ridiculous.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;40148267]yea a ton of things fit the definition of fraud. technically most people commit "fraud" and can be labeled a fraudster. it's still ridiculous.[/QUOTE] I thought it's normal to call making someone believe he's gonna get something, not giving it to him and getting pleasure/advantage from it. How would you call it?

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148175]I dunno man it fits the definition of fraud so I don't see why not.[/QUOTE] Calling something 'fraud' is usually reserved for businesses and the like selling fake items or making false claims or whatnot. Not people teasing or lying to dates or other people for personal stuff. I mean, a girl being a tease doesn't exactly give her an advantage over you in any meaningful way, and it doesn't take away any rights. And it sure as hell doesn't give her a profit or make you part with something.

[QUOTE=Last or First;40148309]Calling something 'fraud' is usually reserved for businesses and the like selling fake items or making false claims or whatnot. Not people teasing or lying to dates or other people for personal stuff. I mean, a girl being a tease doesn't exactly give her an advantage over you in any meaningful way, and it doesn't take away any rights. And it sure as hell doesn't give her a profit or make you part with something.[/QUOTE] It gives her enjoyment tho? She gets something out of it and I don't get what I was led to believe I would. It's a fraud in that context. This argument is getting really pointless semantics.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148375]It gives her enjoyment tho? She gets something out of it and I don't get what I was led to believe I would. It's a fraud in that context. This argument is getting really pointless semantics.[/QUOTE] sorry can you prove it was her machiavellian scheme to trick you into thinking you were going to get laid

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148375]It gives her enjoyment tho? She gets something out of it and I don't get what I was led to believe I would. It's a fraud in that context. This argument is getting really pointless semantics.[/QUOTE] The argument was about semantics from the start. You're literally arguing over the meaning of words in certain situations and the use of words to convey certain ideas and desires. It's literally been about semantics. Semantics in an argument about sex, gender roles, and the like, but semantics it is. There hasn't been any debate about the real merits of either side except for like 2 posts. A discussion that could have been about the legitimate theory of feminism and the illegitimate theory of MRAs is instead a discussion on whether someone needs to give you permission to fuck them, and if they don't whether it's fraud. That's pretty much the extent that your thoughts seem to go: don't talk about theory, talk about how I'm being frauded because a woman won't let me fuck her after we make out. Because you're obviously entitled to that woman's body if she seduces you. That's the same mentality in backwards Muslim cultures that require full-body burqas: if they seduce you, and you rape them, it was their fault, so it's their responsibility to not turn you on. And the same mentality that says "she was asking for it". It's a human being with thoughts and feelings we're talking about, you aren't entitled to anything from her, no matter what actions are going on. Unless you are given explicit permission, then you simply do not have the right. By saying that you were frauded, you are saying that you are entitled to sex, to her body, and that it was yours to take, and by her changing her mind or denying you access, then something is being taken from you. This is the exact mentality that's wrong with MRAs, and it's the exact mentality that feminism tries to counter (not through blame, like MRAs focus on, but through emancipation: feminism would say that your position and mentality on this is the cause of your societal situation and upbringing in a male-privileged society).

[QUOTE=Metanar;40148390]sorry can you prove it was her machiavellian scheme to trick you into thinking you were going to get laid[/QUOTE] No proof that you'd accept exists. You don't think that if someone get's most enjoyment out of denying your advances, that person wanted you to think you'll have sex? [QUOTE='[Seed Eater];40149168']The argument was about semantics from the start. You're literally arguing over the meaning of words in certain situations and the use of words to convey certain ideas and desires. It's literally been about semantics. Semantics in an argument about sex, gender roles, and the like, but semantics it is. There hasn't been any debate about the real merits of either side except for like 2 posts. A discussion that could have been about the legitimate theory of feminism and the illegitimate theory of MRAs is instead a discussion on whether someone needs to give you permission to fuck them, and if they don't whether it's fraud. That's pretty much the extent that your thoughts seem to go: don't talk about theory, talk about how I'm being frauded because a woman won't let me fuck her after we make out. Because you're obviously entitled to that woman's body if she seduces you. That's the same mentality in backwards Muslim cultures that require full-body burqas: if they seduce you, and you rape them, it was their fault, so it's their responsibility to not turn you on. And the same mentality that says "she was asking for it". It's a human being with thoughts and feelings we're talking about, you aren't entitled to anything from her, no matter what actions are going on. Unless you are given explicit permission, then you simply do not have the right. By saying that you were frauded, you are saying that you are entitled to sex, to her body, and that it was yours to take, and by her changing her mind or denying you access, then something is being taken from you. This is the exact mentality that's wrong with MRAs, and it's the exact mentality that feminism tries to counter (not through blame, like MRAs focus on, but through emancipation: feminism would say that your position and mentality on this is the cause of your societal situation and upbringing in a male-privileged society).[/QUOTE] And this is why I post in threads like this. How ridiculous are you? Did you even read the thread or did you just see that I disagree with something and jump to the conclusion that I think I'm entitled to womans body and that it's her fault? Because that's the same exact argument you people use against everyone and anyone that disagrees with you or criticizes you. I take back what I said earlier in this thread. THIS is the post with the largest amount of strawmen I've ever seen. All your assumptions about me are ridiculous. Can you or can you not make another person think that you two will have sex? I mean when it comes as far as inviting a guy to your bedroom and making out. But yeah that isn't a contract or anything. She can change her mind and just stop altogether. She could also take it slow and give you a clear limit. That's okay too. But there are girls who like to tease. They'd invite a guy to their bedroom and just tease them. Not saying no altogether, not saying yes, and not giving a clear limit and continue being playful. You're not telling me that's not dangerous or irresponsible, especially if the guy is drunk, because the guy can just go for it. Is it her fault? No, but she's put herself in a potentially dangerous situation, it's not her fault but she could have avoided that, still every man who goes for it without clear sign of consent is mental. It's the man responsibility not to fucking rape in that situation. Of course women shouldn't be afraid of men doing that. Same way I shouldn't be afraid of going through dark alleys, but I avoid them because I'd put myself in a dangerous situation. I don't understand how "fraud" means that I think I'm entitled to anything. I'm not. Like I said every guy who ignores verbal or non-verbal "no" is mental. I can however be led to believe we will have sex. I mean you have to be pretty ignorant to think that most guys wouldn't assume that if you invite him to your bed after a date, you want to have sex. Maybe it's wrong to assume that but men do that. It doesn't change anything that you're ignorant of that. And before you go for strawmen, I wouldn't ignore a "no". Doesn't mean other men would do the same. Why would you put yourself in that position? And fraud has nothing to do with entitlement. You were led to believe you will get something, you didn't get it and the woman is getting pleasure/satisfaction out of denying it. It fits the definition of fraud. I can't do anything about that. All in all I don't know where you pulled all that out from.

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;40148375]It gives her enjoyment tho? She gets something out of it and I don't get what I was led to believe I would. It's a fraud in that context. This argument is getting really pointless semantics.[/QUOTE] Fraud means they're taking something from you. Not giving you sex isn't taking anything from you You're not entitled to sex just because someone flirted with you.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;40150410]Fraud means they're taking something from you. Not giving you sex isn't taking anything from you You're not entitled to sex just because someone flirted with you.[/QUOTE] I'm not entitled to sex just because someone flirted with me. Not giving me sex isn't taking anything from me. Having fun at my expense is.