[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44838707]best part is if they say that and then you find out they actually stole shit[/QUOTE]
At Best Buy there was a 70 year old woman. Gray hair, bent over, walked with a cane and wore one of those old ass pink suits like Jackie Kennedy used to wear.
She would come in pushing a cart with a Freezer Bag with a broken laptop in it and her cane and she'd try to put shit in her freezer bag (We call them booster bags. Fun fact: Freezer Bags don't work) and attempt to walk out. She had this whole act too. She'd go to Geek Squad say "I can't get internet on my laptop" and they'd ask her what her internet provider was and she'd say "I don't have one" and than when we told her she couldn't get internet without one she'd pretend to get mad and huff away.
We stopped her the first time she came. She got away with it at another store. She drove a brown, shitty old buick with the license plate "RIP ELVIS" no fucking shit. I'm not making that up. She lost her license though when the Police pulled her over and arrested her later on. She kept coming back with her Son who'd yell at her about being a thief. I don't know if he was playing along with her or if she really had dementia or some shit.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44838537]That's pretty strange. In a lot of circumstances I see people getting taken away from the floor after they pass through the doors and the alarm sounds. If not taken away, at least pulled to the side and questioned.[/QUOTE]
You would love my store, the ones by our main tills would go off around a average of at least 200 times a day, I'm not even kidding too, I had to check our gates daily to make sure they worked.
have you ever caught someone doing the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refund_theft"]white house scam[/URL]?
[QUOTE=Wii60;44838735]have you ever caught someone doing the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refund_theft"]white house scam[/URL]?[/QUOTE]
My current duties involve me dealing with it all the fucking time.
At Best Buy I think I saw it happen twice. The one guy wasn't even clever he walked in at 8 at night with sunglasses, a hood up, nothing in his hands. Took a Beats off the shelf, squeezed off the spider wrap and than tried to return it immediately after.
At Burlington Coat Factory it's super fucking common that they do refund scams. We do no-receipt returns (which is a STUPID idea by the way) and they get store gift cards for the value of the product. I manually check every single without-receipt-return that happens every day via the paperwork and the CCTV and when I find the suspicious ones I lock them down so they can't make anymore returns.
It happens all the time. There is a drug dealer in my home town that accepts Burlington gift cards for drugs. There is a pawn store as well right down the road that will take Burlington cards for cash. $20 for every $100 of store credit. [i]That may sound like a rip-off but for the thieves it's a really lucrative strategy[/i].
We don't apprehend for it though. We just shut them down, lock them out, take their picture (we have cameras build into the registers) and if we see them come back we watch to see if they're stealing and if they do, than we can apprehend but again, only if we have the five steps. The refund-fraud alone we can't make apprehensions for.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838754]We do no-receipt returns (which is a STUPID idea by the way) and they get store gift cards for the value of the product.[/QUOTE]
We did this at my store back when I was there, wasn't too much of a hassle as it wasn't done terribly often.
You ever have to dig into the system to see weird shit cashiers did? Like a massive discount on some item with no explanation at all?
[QUOTE=Moreto;44838778]We did this at my store back when I was there, wasn't too much of a hassle as it wasn't done terribly often.
You ever have to dig into the system to see weird shit cashiers did? Like a massive discount on some item with no explanation at all?[/QUOTE]
Not yet. And from what I've heard it's not common for cashiers to actually steal from their registers or pull off any elaborate fraud like that.
It's kind of annoying sometimes. I basically get a copy of the receipt and than I watch it happen on the camera play-back and I have to make sure that everything went according to policy. Scanning the right things, money changing hands, registers closings. Why did this take so long? Why did this get moved? Why did he leave and come back? What did she need a manager for? etc. and sometimes it drives me nuts but eh. Even real detectives have paperwork.
The most common front-lanes shit that happens is like free-bagging where people put stuff in the customers bags without charging them. Employees get fired for stealing the dumbest shit. Usually potato chips, soda and really small items like a T-Shirt, underwear, Lotion or Ear Buds and stuff like that.
It does take a bit of detective work I guess to figure out what goes on. Like if you see on the receipt 35% MARK DOWN -HAND KEYED- you wonder why they gave them a discount. Than you have to sort of figure it out by what you see them buying, what their body language is and stuff like that. Like "Oh, the cashier and customer keep pointing at the bottom of those shoes. They must be used or worn out. So he got them for a discount" like that.
Is this seriously called Loss Prevention?
[QUOTE=Killuah;44838834]Is this seriously called Loss Prevention?[/QUOTE]
I used to work LP but from what I was led to believe, most retailers stopped calling it "Loss Prevention" because it it sounds negative and has the idea that, there will be a loss, so most stores I've worked at since have gone from calling it Loss Prevention to Asset Protection. I know when I worked at Best Buy, they were real quick to point out it was no longer called LP but AP.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838629]Absolutely incorrect.
Merchant Clause provides retailers the means to use reasonable force to apprehend shoplifters.
If what you said was a reality than I and everyone else in the LP industry would be in jail or suffering serious legal repercussions which is obviously not the case.
Security Guards are considered Peace Officers. Disobeying a Security Guard is legally the same as disobeying a Police Officer. Security Guards are by law (at least in my State) allowed to perform arrests.
But to be fair ANY US citizen can perform a citizens arrest if they personally witness a felony.[/quote]
While some of what you say is true, its truth is inexstensive.
Reasonable force is largely undefined and is left up to a jury to decide upon. Its a terrible term really because any force is "reasonable" until it is decided upon by a jury.
While the logic of your second statement is understandable, the reason that the LP industry isn't fucked is because nobody knows their rights to the extent that truly benifits them. Shoplifters think that since they are commiting a crime (note that I didn't say felony) that they are vulnerable to whatever force is necessary to stop them. And actually there are many situations in which LPs have been fucked over due to forceful aprehension of somone.
In regard to Peace Officers, "Peace officer" is another loose term for law enforcement, and applies to police, sheriffs, park rangers, and yes, security guards, amongst everything else that wears a badge, really. This does not mean each branch is granted the same powers. It means that an individual may have certain ppwers granted to them, according to their job description. A security guard's power ends where the store ends, and legally a person has not stolen something until they have left the store. See where I'm going?
As for the last statement, we come back to the word felony. Shoplifting isn't a felony until the value of stolen merchandise exceeds a certain point. LPs are consid ered citizens, and a citizens arrest leaves the arresting party extremely liable, and if the crime comitted isn't a felony, a citizens arrest isn't warranted.
Oh, and if somone is aprehended or detained and there is a notable delay in contacting law enforcement, then the aprehension is illicit. If law enforcement isnt called, lube up and bend over if the aprehended party knowstheir rights, or has a lawyer who does.
The US has so many loopholes within its laws that sometimes it pays to be a criminal.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838796]Not yet. And from what I've heard it's not common for cashiers to actually steal from their registers or pull off any elaborate fraud like that.[/QUOTE]One of my girlfriend's co-workers would wait until she was the only one in the store (small store, one register) and then start refunding items and pocketing the cash. She managed to get about AU$10000 over the course of a month before getting caught.
And its not that I'm advocating crime, I just find it interesting how our legal system works.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838796]Not yet. And from what I've heard it's not common for cashiers to actually steal from their registers or pull off any elaborate fraud like that. [/QUOTE]
Oh man we had one cashier at my last place that we figured was stealing 100s out of out of self checkouts, at the time as a country we were switching over to plastic bills so the machines couldn't read them, so we had to keep them in the machines behind one key.
Nobody ever actually knew exactly what happened with her though, last day working for us ended with her in the back of a police cruiser after talking to the district lp person.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838796]It does take a bit of detective work I guess to figure out what goes on. Like if you see on the receipt 35% MARK DOWN -HAND KEYED- you wonder why they gave them a discount. Than you have to sort of figure it out by what you see them buying, what their body language is and stuff like that. Like "Oh, the cashier and customer keep pointing at the bottom of those shoes. They must be used or worn out. So he got them for a discount" like that.[/QUOTE]
You would love what I had to do just to see the original order for specials, look up the receipt in our old computer system, go into the new system for orders go to the print preview and put in the number there, preview it and then write down the actual order number, THEN put it into the system to see all the notes.
I once had to do that for a order that had something like a $900 discount on it and my store manager was lightly freaking out over it. Turned out it was a manufacturers discount.
Reminds of when I was at a Dick's store during the holiday shopping season. It was busy as shit and the alarm kept going off but they werent able to do anything because it was jam packed with customers
[QUOTE=3picFail;44838896]While some of what you say is true, its truth is inexstensive.
Reasonable force is largely undefined and is left up to a jury to decide upon. Its a terrible term really because any force is "reasonable" until it is decided upon by a jury.[/QUOTE]
So having a large guy sit outside all day outside the entrance waiting for runners to clothesline would go down badly? :v:
This is something I've always been wondering about, does the security/whatever people pay more attention to people who walk into the stores without a basket? Like every store I go to has a huge sign near the entrance saying "entrance only with a basket or cart" or something like that, but I never do it because I honestly can't be bothered dragging a cart around if I'm buying one or two things, usually just games or some other small electronics.
[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;44839862]This is something I've always been wondering about, does the security/whatever people pay more attention to people who walk into the stores without a basket? Like every store I go to has a huge sign near the entrance saying "entrance only with a basket or cart" or something like that, but I never do it because I honestly can't be bothered dragging a cart around if I'm buying one or two things, usually just games or some other small electronics.[/QUOTE]
Entrance with only a cart or basket? I've never ever seen that. But it appears you live in Poland. So, that's probably why.
In America I've never heard of that. If anything the people with shop carts draw more attention to themselves depending on the store.
The reason they have that rule in Poland is probably because it's a statistical fact that if you have a basket or shopping cart you're more likely to buy more. So making it a rule to have one is probably their way of trying to coax people to spending more money.
At Best Buy for example. Anyone using the full-size shopping cart was suspicious. We sold a lot of high value merchandise. It's not typical for people to walk around with a cart like it's Wal-Mart shoveling things into their cart because almost everything in the store exceeds $20 so if anyone is doing that it could be because they plan to bolt with it.
[editline]18th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=3picFail;44838896]While some of what you say is true, its truth is inexstensive.
Reasonable force is largely undefined and is left up to a jury to decide upon. Its a terrible term really because any force is "reasonable" until it is decided upon by a jury.
While the logic of your second statement is understandable, the reason that the LP industry isn't fucked is because nobody knows their rights to the extent that truly benifits them. Shoplifters think that since they are commiting a crime (note that I didn't say felony) that they are vulnerable to whatever force is necessary to stop them. And actually there are many situations in which LPs have been fucked over due to forceful aprehension of somone.
In regard to Peace Officers, "Peace officer" is another loose term for law enforcement, and applies to police, sheriffs, park rangers, and yes, security guards, amongst everything else that wears a badge, really. This does not mean each branch is granted the same powers. It means that an individual may have certain ppwers granted to them, according to their job description. A security guard's power ends where the store ends, and legally a person has not stolen something until they have left the store. See where I'm going?
As for the last statement, we come back to the word felony. Shoplifting isn't a felony until the value of stolen merchandise exceeds a certain point. LPs are consid ered citizens, and a citizens arrest leaves the arresting party extremely liable, and if the crime comitted isn't a felony, a citizens arrest isn't warranted.
Oh, and if somone is aprehended or detained and there is a notable delay in contacting law enforcement, then the aprehension is illicit. If law enforcement isnt called, lube up and bend over if the aprehended party knowstheir rights, or has a lawyer who does.
The US has so many loopholes within its laws that sometimes it pays to be a criminal.[/QUOTE]
Well, during your initial post I just assumed you were being edgy for the sake of being edgy. I glazed over the topic as quickly as I could without writing a wall of text because you're right the subject is complicated as fuck and every situation is different.
In reality there is nothing different from me and the shoplifter I'm apprehending. I've also [i]never[/i] used force for an apprehension. All my shoplifters so far have come with me willing.
The guys you see in the Target videos, I'm pretty sure if their bosses saw what they were doing a lot of people would lose their job. But, I also don't claim to know Target's policy 100% but having been working this sort of work for the amount of time I have I know that sometimes LP bend rules to get arrests and keep their bad guys from running off.
And I know the different between felonies and what not. Again, I just didn't want to keep being incredibly specific with what I was talking about. But as far as LP apprehensions go I've never made an 'arrest' we just walk up to the person as they attempt to leave and say "I'm with X security, could we have a private conversation back in the store?" and so far with some exceptions they always just give up and walk with me. The Police have never taken more than 20 minutes to arrive. If the recovered merchandise is under a certain price point than we just make them fill out some paper work, ban them from the property and they're free to go.
Why do they need 3 cop cars for one shoplifter, even that raises more questions, how do they get the cops to respond almost instantaneously with 3 vehicles.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=25PEe_BU0Sg#t=396[/url]
What the fuck happened there.
In that second video, what happened with the guy at the end? Excuse me if I'm a dumbfuck, but did they just take him down for using the phone or was there actually something going on?
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;44840340]In that second video, what happened with the guy at the end? Excuse me if I'm a dumbfuck, but did they just take him down for using the phone or was there actually something going on?[/QUOTE]
Prolly did refund fraud - IE go in store, steal merchandise and takes it right to the customer service to get a refund/instore credit.
I remember my days in retail at a pharmacy, nothing was worse than hearing a bunch of other stores in the area were hit for baby formula, the entire store would become paranoid.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838424]The EAS systems are touchy. Sometimes they go off for no reason. If you walk through them with an EAS tag in the exact right way they won't activate. If you bring metal into the EAS field than the field will increase in size and detect things that are typically out of it's usual range and set it off. Sometimes certain cellphones, car remotes, credit cards and one time I even saw a conceal-carry gun set it off.[/QUOTE]
An aunt of mine started setting them off all the time after she got several bridges put in her teeth.
Meanwhile nearly everyone I know has accidentally walked off without paying for something that has a tag without a hitch, gotten the the car, and generally set the stuff off when they went back in to pay for it.
Those things are a bigger joke than the metal detectors TSA used, and that's saying something.
Oh, and the reason why having more metal sets those things off is probably because they are just doing what most metal detectors do, and looking for changes in the electric field. You can get through most metal detectors by simply moving slowly enough.
Most security patches/gadgets are magnetized. In laymans terms, the pad you rub crap on to deactivate the patches is just a weaker version of the same machine you use to securely erase a hard drive.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838495]
Getting a Guard Card is another step in the right direction too. Security Guard licenses are easy to get. For example in New York all you have to do is take an 8-hour course and than pay to get your finger prints taken and than you send your certificate from the 8-hour course and proof of finger printing to the State with a fee and they send you back your Guard Card.
Some LP require you to be licensed guards. Some don't. Best Buy doesn't require it. They'll usually tell you if you need one during the application process. Some will pay for you to take the course if they do.
If you want to be an LP than you should literally just apply to every single LP position in your area and wait for at least one or two of them to call you back.[/QUOTE]
In California, it is just as easy, my friend did the same thing except they had to do a written test, but they have to get 100% correct and you can retry immediately. The great thing is that, for my friend, they did it in a group and basically had one giant group test. So you can pass one try and not worry about, but if you want to study the guidelines beforehand. The entire handbook is online on one of the state websites, and it'll have the test and answers too.
Though California does not recognize a security guard as a peace officer, so beware of that, because impersonating can become a huge problem.
Security jobs can be pretty easy, especially in the airport parking lot.
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;44838149]That fuckin dude who just tried walking out with a flatscreen, what was he thinking
Did he just assume no one would care?[/QUOTE]
[video=youtube;6EjIh4DHRfY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EjIh4DHRfY[/video]
I would never let a Target employee lay their grubby grubs on me.
Everyone knows you go to Wal-Mart to steal shit.
I've only walked out of a store without paying for something once. I was like five and was reading a magazine like popular mechanics or something while my mom was checking out. I just kept reading as I followed her out the door, then she took it back in when she noticed.
Criminal mastermind. :smug:
these videos remind me of high school when my girlfriend at the time and i tried to walk out of a sears with condoms in my pocket. her dad had to pick her up from the little detention area. it was awful
as someone who works retail and has a mother who fucking shoplifts a lot. I can safely say I hate thieves. I don't even understand why some of these people do it, is it really worth getting busted and being branded as a thief just because you don't want to pay for shit?
Loss prevention would be satisfying in some ways knowing you're helping expose shoplifters, it's pretty humiliating getting busted for shoplifting.
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