• Target Shoplifter Apprehensions
    114 replies, posted
When I worked at Kroger we called Loss Prevention "Shrink"; and honestly, the Kroger Co. gets bent over and reamed in the ass by customers. Unless there was an absolute airtight case management wouldn't pursue a shoplifter. Hell, one time a guy walked out of the store with half the meat department's products but management essentially let him walk right out. He did this a couple of times until pretty much all of the staff--and funny enough, some of our regular customers recognized his face. Finally, local Police timed an encounter as he was leaving the store with yet, another $500 in meats.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;44840207]Why do they need 3 cop cars for one shoplifter, even that raises more questions, how do they get the cops to respond almost instantaneously with 3 vehicles.[/QUOTE] Already explained. I'm pretty confident that particular shoplifter was getting busted for Organized Retail Crime which is a really serious offense. The Target AP saw the guy and immediately phoned ahead to the Police who were waiting for them to leave the store. [editline]18th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MR-X;44840385]Prolly did refund fraud - IE go in store, steal merchandise and takes it right to the customer service to get a refund/instore credit.[/QUOTE] Most retailers don't apprehend for refund fraud. If they spot someone trying to return merchandise they just took off the shelf they'll refuse to process the refund. Unless they try to leave with the stolen merchandise, than they can just walk out. At Best Buy the guy I mentioned before who wore his sunglasses at night and tried to return one of our Beats ended up leaving the merchandise. Which sucks, because we were really looking forward to apprehending him. In the end we had to let him go because he came in with nothing and left with nothing, bad intentions aside.
It's so strange that some people think they can just act all shifty and not expect anyone to know they're stealing something. If you're planning to do a crime, at least get the planning part done.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;44844658]It's so strange that some people think they can just act all shifty and not expect anyone to know they're stealing something. If you're planning to do a crime, at least get the planning part done.[/QUOTE] It's logistically impossible to catch every shoplifter. People shoplift so often that it's really hard to grasp, so as unfortunate as it is most people get away with it. But regarding the planning phase too, that never made sense to me. A lot of shoplifters don't go into a store planning on steal but they do when they see the chance too. The ones that do plan, usually don't do so very well. I don't quite understand. With the smallest amount of research and investment you can buy tools to make it easier on yourself and read some shoplifter forums and cobble together some sort of plan. But they don't seem to do that instead they end up dragging their feet and not thinking it through and get caught because they didn't prepare well enough. So you want to steal Beats headphones? Okay. Well. You know they're spider-wrapped. So what do you do? Instead of buying a magnet or the proper mag-key off Ebay or something and being clever they decide to walk into the department, wonder around the display rack for five minutes looking nervous and finally they pick up the Beats and struggle to SQUEEZE the spider-wrap off with their fingers which is do-able but takes a lot of time and effort. So naturally they get caught.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44844709]It's logistically impossible to catch every shoplifter. People shoplift so often that it's really hard to grasp, so as unfortunate as it is most people get away with it. But regarding the planning phase too, that never made sense to me. A lot of shoplifters don't go into a store planning on steal but they do when they see the chance too. The ones that do plan, usually don't do so very well. I don't quite understand. With the smallest amount of research and investment you can buy tools to make it easier on yourself and read some shoplifter forums and cobble together some sort of plan. But they don't seem to do that instead they end up dragging their feet and not thinking it through and get caught because they didn't prepare well enough. So you want to steal Beats headphones? Okay. Well. You know they're spider-wrapped. So what do you do? Instead of buying a magnet or the proper mag-key off Ebay or something and being clever they decide to walk into the department, wonder around the display rack for five minutes looking nervous and finally they pick up the Beats and struggle to SQUEEZE the spider-wrap off with their fingers which is do-able but takes a lot of time and effort. So naturally they get caught.[/QUOTE] You can just put magnets on most of the spider wraps, and if the poles are aligned correctly, they pop right out. Spider Wraps are seriously easier to break into than 3 digit rotating locks. How dumb do you have to be to fail at breaking them? I mean shit, you can take some generic strong magnets, and make a credit card sized holder for them out of any palstic/wood and literally just slap it on the back plate and pull the locks out in 5 seconds. I've seen a guy open at least 25 in a little over a minute (local store, owner made his own key, and was shifting inventory). Someone who is good at sleight of hand could easily palm a small homemade key, and open as well as remove the wrap while reaching for an item on the back of the shelf.
Apparently when I was a little kid I went to the mall with my mom and carried around a VHS copy of Anastasia and I forgot to ask her if we could buy it so I just casually walked out of the store all the way to the parking lot with that stupid VHS tape in my hands. I never even watched Anastasia.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44844709] With the smallest amount of research and investment you can buy tools to make it easier on yourself and read some shoplifter forums and cobble together some sort of plan. [/QUOTE] I literally googled shoplifting forum and found a thread on how to get shit lol
when looking for shoplifters, what's your criteria for suspecting someone as one? ie having backpack, going to the bathroom frequently, etc
I do LP as well and I'm really surprised at the level of forced used for some of the apprehensions. I've NEVER once had to go hands on with anyone. Normally I just introduce myself and let them know what is going on and I'm not playing any fucking games. Some of the shit I saw in the video was a bit excessive. But each place has its own rules and such. I'm really surprised that target allowed this video to be released on youtube.
i will say these LP threads have taught me just as much if not more about how to correctly shoplift than about the job of loss prevention
[QUOTE=Bredirish123;44844417]When I worked at Kroger we called Loss Prevention "Shrink"; and honestly, the Kroger Co. gets bent over and reamed in the ass by customers. Unless there was an absolute airtight case management wouldn't pursue a shoplifter. Hell, one time a guy walked out of the store with half the meat department's products but management essentially let him walk right out. He did this a couple of times until pretty much all of the staff--and funny enough, some of our regular customers recognized his face. Finally, local Police timed an encounter as he was leaving the store with yet, another $500 in meats.[/QUOTE] Kroger has no idea what they are doing with anything 95% of the time. My store doesn't have an onsite LP team, but sometimes the district team will drop by. The only thing I remember them doing was harassing an off-duty employee when she took her cart into the lobby to retrieve sodas there. From what I remember hearing, they didn't know she was an employee and said some very unprofessional things to her. She ended up getting a formal apology for it. As for refund scams, they are [B]piss easy[/B] to pull off. We'll give no-receipt refunds up to ~$25 or so but if you complain to management, they will probably give you more than that. Most stores now, when you bring them a receipt for a refund, scan a barcode or enter a transaction number that pulls up the transaction in their system. This tells them that the receipt is authentic, and the items weren't returned before. Our POS systems are so amazingly out-of-date (they consist of a keyboard and a 2x20 character alphanumeric display). It has no such ability. Transactions can only be looked up in the master accounting computer, and only for that store alone. So, we just have to trust that any receipt is good. Forgery is really easy.
Some of the more electronic/bulk-buy focused chains have guys standing at exits specifically to check receipts and make sure that all products going out match them. Are they purely a deterrence measure, or are they actually supposed to be able to do that fast and well for entire shifts? I ask this specifically because I have a Costco nearby which has this position, and the guys must either be just there for looks or have a Terminator-style scanning HUD built directly into their retinas based on how quickly they decide that carts filled with literally hundreds of items contain no illegitimate goods.
[QUOTE=Crash155;44845531]when looking for shoplifters, what's your criteria for suspecting someone as one? ie having backpack, going to the bathroom frequently, etc[/QUOTE] For normal shoplifters it's behavior and perhaps their clothing (large clothing to conceal) For professional shoplifters they usually bring in huge ass empty bags to stores.
[QUOTE=Crash155;44845531]when looking for shoplifters, what's your criteria for suspecting someone as one? ie having backpack, going to the bathroom frequently, etc[/QUOTE] Yeah, more or less. You even start to pick up on subtle shit too after awhile. For example, it's not too uncommon to people to walk into a store with a backpack. The area my store is in isn't the richest place in the world so sometimes people walk. But if you see someone walk into the store while it's raining, and the backpack is dry than that's suspicious because it meant they drove here. Since I'm usually at the front door I see all the cabs that pull up so right away it's something to watch out for. People wearing clothes inappropriate for the climate. Right now it's getting hotter so no one should be wearing North Face jackets. As for Bathrooms and Fitting Rooms most retailers don't touch it with a pole. You can't follow anyone into a stall or fitting room so the five steps are broken, you basically have to let them go or just try to scare them by following them closely and spooking them. The only tactic I use for that is to go into the bathroom and say "Sir, it's store policy that you can't have merchandise in the bathroom." which usually scares them shitless because they know that I know they have shit on them, even though they were slick and concealed it. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MR-X;44845645]I do LP as well and I'm really surprised at the level of forced used for some of the apprehensions. I've NEVER once had to go hands on with anyone. Normally I just introduce myself and let them know what is going on and I'm not playing any fucking games. Some of the shit I saw in the video was a bit excessive. But each place has its own rules and such. I'm really surprised that target allowed this video to be released on youtube.[/QUOTE] Target didn't allow it. They even got Youtube to take it down once, that's why they gloat about it during the first video. The AP probably burnt those CD's and kept them to show off. That particular Youtube account posts apprehension videos so they probably wanted some exposure. I'm positive that those people don't work for Target anymore. Some of them at least. Like in the second video when that undercover guy in the striped shirt tackles that guy from behind. No reason for that. I've never had to touch anyone during an apprehension. They are either scared enough to walk with you or if they try to run or become a dick you get really aggressive and when they see you're not backing down, they usually do. "I need you to come back in this fucking store." "You can deal with me, or the State Police. If you walk out of here I promise you that you're going to jail tonight." Sometimes I just lie to them. Well, kind of. More like reason with them and stay cryptic. "Hey man, you stole a $20 pair of jeans. It's not a big deal. You come with me, fill out some paper work. I call my boss and you'll be on your way. You won't be able to come back here for two months, but if you walk out of here you're going to jail. So let's head back inside and get this over with. It'll take like forty minutes at most." Sometimes if they cooperate we let them go anyway, depends on what our boss wants us to do (My regional LP) and when the cops show up, it's not like I technically lied to him. I said 'on your way' never told him where that would be.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;44842020]Oh, and the reason why having more metal sets those things off is probably because they are just doing what most metal detectors do, and looking for changes in the electric field. You can get through most metal detectors by simply moving slowly enough. Most security patches/gadgets are magnetized. In laymans terms, the pad you rub crap on to deactivate the patches is just a weaker version of the same machine you use to securely erase a hard drive.[/QUOTE] They go off when a chip in merchandise that hasn't been magnetically disabled by the checkout lanes triggers it. They are a form of deterrence and nothing else. They aren't meant to be the main line of defense, they are just another way for Assets Protection to have a reason to check your reciept.
[QUOTE=Pennywise;44846256]Some of the more electronic/bulk-buy focused chains have guys standing at exits specifically to check receipts and make sure that all products going out match them. Are they purely a deterrence measure, or are they actually supposed to be able to do that fast and well for entire shifts? I ask this specifically because I have a Costco nearby which has this position, and the guys must either be just there for looks or have a Terminator-style scanning HUD built directly into their retinas based on how quickly they decide that carts filled with literally hundreds of items contain no illegitimate goods.[/QUOTE] Deterrence. I had to do receipt checks at Best Buy. For the first few months you actually pay attention. But the most I ever caught was "Oh, inventory gave you the wrong laptop. Sorry, let's get you the right one" nothing shady though. Especially around Christmas and beyond all I did was glance at it, signed it and let them go. Sometimes on the big receipts you count the items to make sure they didn't add an extra item or something. But receipt checks are a customer service thing at Best Buy. At Sam's Club they're theft deterrence, but not even a good one.
When I worked at Fry's Electronics our main LP officer was an ex-Hell's Angels. Also Fry's pays $50 everytime the guys at the front finds an error on your receipt/catches cashier mistakes (aka a friend letting you take things.) Yah don't fuck with Fry's. Story time: One time we had a kid come in during the WoW: Cataclysm release. This kid straight up started up opening up like 8 boxes when he thought no one was looking and stuffing his jacket. Needless to say he got caught at the door easily with the LP officer dressed in a Hawaiian shirt stalking him, but the best part was all that he "stole" was the CDs and not the keys. Essentially, had he been successful all he would have gotten was to be able to install the game, which you can do for free from Blizzard's site anytime. Also I just recently had one of my 20 year old friends get caught stealing Magic cards, that shit is embarrassing.
[QUOTE=Chinook249;44842800][video=youtube;6EjIh4DHRfY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EjIh4DHRfY[/video][/QUOTE] i still think my favorite part of this video is the "slimmest tv in the world" poster at the end
It is justifiable to steal from a corporation. They had to steal something (resources, hard labor) somewhere along the line to make a profit. Therefore it is simply stealing stolen goods. eheh
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850499]It is justifiable to steal from a corporation. They had to steal something (resources, hard labor) somewhere along the line to make a profit. Therefore it is simply stealing stolen goods. eheh[/QUOTE] you cant really justify stealing id say the only times to ever steal is if its bullshit overcharged stuff like $60-$80 for a t-shirt
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850499]It is justifiable to steal from a corporation. They had to steal something (resources, hard labor) somewhere along the line to make a profit. Therefore it is simply stealing stolen goods. eheh[/QUOTE] ...And they have the legal right to get you arrested so it's a win win. Shortage at a place like Target is factored into store prices and team member available hours at the end of 4th quarter so you're also stealing from the regular working class team members good job.
[QUOTE=Tudd;44850358]Also I just recently had one of my 20 year old friends get caught stealing Magic cards, that shit is embarrassing.[/QUOTE] You ever looked at the price of those things? People will pay a shitload for printed cardboard :v:
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850499]It is justifiable to steal from a corporation. They had to steal something (resources, hard labor) somewhere along the line to make a profit. Therefore it is simply stealing stolen goods. eheh[/QUOTE] From operating inside of these companies I honestly don't feel like that sentiment has any serious grounding anymore. These stores barely make a profit. Like, barely. For example, at Target someone walked out with one of those dumb little electric motorcycles. It was $400. In order to make enough money to break even on that bike we had to sell another 10 of them. In North America retailers lose 40 billion dollars a year due to 'shrink', Employees who steal are responsible for the largest portion followed by shoplifters. The cost is passed onto consumers, adding about $440 to what the average person spends in stores every year. At Best Buy which has one of the worst AP program (the only way it could be worse is if they had none at all, which they did for awhile..) barely makes money off of the shit it sells. Almost all their profit are in accessories. If you pay $600 for a TV than we make an incredibly small fraction of that. $40 for example. The only place we make serious profit are things like remotes and shit that costs us $5 to buy and we make a $50 profit on. Not to mention that loss gets reflected into the pay and hours of associates who work there. If we lose a ton of money to theft in a month, than the next month some people get hours cut to make up for the financial loss. The smaller the business. The worse it is.
Hello from 2816 in the 300 region. We are broke so we can only afford 1 TPS. :v:
[QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;44850207]They go off when a chip in merchandise that hasn't been magnetically disabled by the checkout lanes triggers it. They are a form of deterrence and nothing else. They aren't meant to be the main line of defense, they are just another way for Assets Protection to have a reason to check your reciept.[/QUOTE] Moving magnets cause changes in electric fields. [IMG]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-science.gif[/IMG] Try walking through different stores with a big ass neodynium magnet in your pocket. They will go off every single time. With a strong magnet, they will go off several feet before you even go through them.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850499]It is justifiable to steal from a corporation. They had to steal something (resources, hard labor) somewhere along the line to make a profit. Therefore it is simply stealing stolen goods. eheh[/QUOTE] And with your logic, it's justifiable to steal from you because it's just stolen goods. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Death_God;44850456]i still think my favorite part of this video is the "slimmest tv in the world" poster at the end[/QUOTE] I'm inclined to say it's a very clever ad. Doesn't make it any less funny though.
[QUOTE=Death_God;44850511]you cant really justify stealing id say the only times to ever steal is if its bullshit overcharged stuff like $60-$80 for a t-shirt[/QUOTE] In that case, it's also okay to lift a $200 pair of Beats by Dre since they only cost like $14 to make. [QUOTE=Rofl my Waff;44850544]...And they have the legal right to get you arrested so it's a win win. Shortage at a place like Target is factored into store prices and team member available hours at the end of 4th quarter so you're also stealing from the regular working class team members good job.[/QUOTE] I didn't say it was legally justifiable. Sure they can have you arrested, but only if you comply. They have no right to lay hands on you or detain you for a misdemeanor offense. That second part is concerning though. Is that true? That makes me respect the store even less. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44850561]From operating inside of these companies I honestly don't feel like that sentiment has any serious grounding anymore. These stores barely make a profit. Like, barely. For example, at Target someone walked out with one of those dumb little electric motorcycles. It was $400. In order to make enough money to break even on that bike we had to sell another 10 of them. In North America retailers lose 40 billion dollars a year due to 'shrink', Employees who steal are responsible for the largest portion followed by shoplifters. The cost is passed onto consumers, adding about $440 to what the average person spends in stores every year. At Best Buy which has one of the worst AP program (the only way it could be worse is if they had none at all, which they did for awhile..) barely makes money off of the shit it sells. Almost all their profit are in accessories. If you pay $600 for a TV than we make an incredibly small fraction of that. $40 for example. The only place we make serious profit are things like remotes and shit that costs us $5 to buy and we make a $50 profit on. Not to mention that loss gets reflected into the pay and hours of associates who work there. If we lose a ton of money to theft in a month, than the next month some people get hours cut to make up for the financial loss. The smaller the business. The worse it is.[/QUOTE] I find it really hard to feel bad for the store itself. Even if the profit margin is as small as you say, the business itself sure as hell isn't hurting from it. The CEO still somehow manages to get paid tens of millions a year. In a business that big, the fact that they make up for losses by cutting workers' (who are already compensated at poverty levels, comparatively) hours really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
I once accidentally stole a bottle of coke from tesco because I had already picked it up when we decided to go somewhere else. It haunts me to this day.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850702] That second part is concerning though. Is that true? That makes me respect the store even less. [/QUOTE] Respect the store less? It's economics, if you have a huge portion of an item being stolen it drives the prices up. Store hours are regulated by sales, if sales are down (which is directly related to shortage) then there are less hours. The world isn't as black and white as you make it. [editline]19th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850702] I find it really hard to feel bad for the store itself. Even if the profit margin is as small as you say, the business itself sure as hell isn't hurting from it. The CEO still somehow manages to get paid tens of millions a year. In a business that big, the fact that they make up for losses by cutting workers' (who are already compensated at poverty levels, comparatively) hours really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.[/QUOTE] Target doesn't have it's own crime investigation center (which is on par with FBI investigation centers) for no reason. Internal and external theft are DEFINITELY hurting target.
[QUOTE=Mister_Jack;44850702]In that case, it's also okay to lift a $200 pair of Beats by Dre since they only cost like $14 to make. [/QUOTE] im pretty sure they'll be more lenient with a shirt than $200-400 headphones just dont get caught dude
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