[QUOTE=BmB;23430298]Again, not understanding it. I'm not really qualified to explain it. Ask a real christian.
[editline]10:50PM[/editline]
War in Iraq causes pain suffering and death, yet there are people on both sides that think it's a good idea. Is that evil somehow?[/QUOTE]
Moral absolutism is evil.
BmB is probably 12-14. He's making up and pulling arguments out of his ass to try and support an argument he doesn't fully understand in the first place. Doc Communism had it right up there when he said the only reason he's defending it is because he's been preprogrammed to do so.
you know, all this fuss over god and religion and christianity, i might just go and read that little book just to see what everyone thinks everyone else is misinterpreting.
That video was hilarious.
BmB quit making a(n) (bigger) ass of yourself.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;23436260]Oops, well I guess all the other philosophers who have argued against it didn't "understand" it either.[/QUOTE]
Yeah nobody does understand but BmB and he won't tell us the truth.
[QUOTE=BmB;23430298]Again, not understanding it. I'm not really qualified to explain it. Ask a real christian.
[/QUOTE]
Then why the fuck are you talking?
It's simple. An act of true evil is not defined by opinion, whether or not you could classify a "good guy" or a "bad guy" in the act of ending a human life is irrelevant, you are murdering somebody against their will and removing them from existence.
God is the ultimate example of an egotistical fuckwit toying with a lab rat, and that lab rat is the human race.
He can't get enough praise for himself so he condemns to eternal torment all who do not expressly worship him on an annual basis, he intentionally plants the seeds of dischord, just waiting for somebody to make a "wrong" decision so he can condemn them too.
In his world, he creates billions of people with billions of different opinions, plants only incredibly debatable evidence towards his existence, and whoever doesn't immediately believe he exists with miniscule proof that he in fact does will end up in eternal torment for something anyone who isn't a completely mindless sheep would have done.
Is that the God people want? A God who favors mindless following over independant thinking?
That isn't the God I want.
Actually no, that's the point. As I understand it God favors exactly independent thinking over mindless following. He could have created a perfect world where everyone loves him and are happy. But only because they were made that way.
As I understand, God wants people to choose to love him. And only through ambiguity, suffering and all that jazz, can people truly do that.
There's a lot more to it, as I said I'm not exactly qualified to explain it.
But it makes sense.
And no, I'm not christian in the least and I still think it makes sense.
Yes, God wants people to choose to love him, and if they [b]don't[/b] choose to do so they are cast into hell forever.
That isn't a choice, it's an ultimatum.
God is still a fucking prick.
Hell is a later invention. So far as I understand it doesn't say shit about hell in the bible.
You yourself disregarded the bible earlier, way to be a fucking hypocrite.
It doesn't really matter anyway, since Hell is so incredibly ingrained in the religion that it is as "existent" as heaven is.
lol I guess some people get sucked up arguing in these threads about stuff that doesn't matter ok
I find it odd how that turned from a statement into a directed comment DiscoBiscut.
Anyways, it's to be expected from any religion-centric thread on FP.
[QUOTE=BmB;23459474]Hell is a later invention. So far as I understand it doesn't say shit about hell in the bible.[/QUOTE]
Stop trolling/posting.
[QUOTE=BmB;23456104]Actually no, that's the point. As I understand it God favors exactly independent thinking over mindless following. He could have created a perfect world where everyone loves him and are happy. But only because they were made that way.
As I understand, God wants people to choose to love him. And only through ambiguity, suffering and all that jazz, can people truly do that.
There's a lot more to it, as I said I'm not exactly qualified to explain it.
But it makes sense.
And no, I'm not christian in the least and I still think it makes sense.[/QUOTE]
Once again, easy to understand when you haven't suffered. If God was God, then it would be on his head that children are dying, people are suffering, all in the name of "God wanting people to choose to love him".
How the hell can all of this suffering justify that. Let me get your opinion on something. What's better, a man who murders his entire family of 5 but then goes on to find God and redemption in prison, or the man born with the belief in God?
I'll remind you that it's extremely hard to choose to love God when you're dead.
Also read J.L Mackie's argument on it.
This one is better
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXcHV_zTNBs[/media]
Maybe we all live in a giant computer server as data
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;23467045]Once again, easy to understand when you haven't suffered. If God was God, then it would be on his head that children are dying, people are suffering, all in the name of "God wanting people to choose to love him".
How the hell can all of this suffering justify that. Let me get your opinion on something. What's better, a man who murders his entire family of 5 but then goes on to find God and redemption in prison, or the man born with the belief in God?
I'll remind you that it's extremely hard to choose to love God when you're dead.
Also read J.L Mackie's argument on it.[/QUOTE]
Again, not qualified to explain it. If you recall shit was perfect in the beginning. But I think that because Adam and Eve chose for themselves to defy god, god loves humans enough to respect that choice, and still wait for you in heaven and shit. He loves you enough to let you suffer off of your own volition. That is to say the volition of Adam and Eve but whatever. The whole original sin business and all that.
I'm not sure you understand just how precious free will is in the christian world view.
[editline]10:57PM[/editline]
Whatever, even if there does exist coherent and genuinely interesting counter arguments, that's not exactly what AA is doing, he's just flaunting his ignorance and looking like a douche.
He's a fucking idiot.
This guy is stupid and annoying.
This guy is fucking awesome, but it seems that this has spawned another retarded flamewar.
Chocolate :v:
[QUOTE=BmB;23477827]Again, not qualified to explain it. If you recall shit was perfect in the beginning. But I think that because Adam and Eve chose for themselves to defy god, god loves humans enough to respect that choice, and still wait for you in heaven and shit. He loves you enough to let you suffer off of your own volition. That is to say the volition of Adam and Eve but whatever. The whole original sin business and all that.
I'm not sure you understand just how precious free will is in the christian world view.
[editline]10:57PM[/editline]
Whatever, even if there does exist coherent and genuinely interesting counter arguments, that's not exactly what AA is doing, he's just flaunting his ignorance and looking like a douche.[/QUOTE]
But then again, if the whole Adam and Eve story is true, then you have the issue of collective punishment. Because two people fucked up, humanity must suffer horrifically. If anyone else but God did this, they'd be called a monster.
And "loving you enough to suffer of your own volition" is a massive paradox in my opinion. The fact that suffering is allowed to continue suggests a lack of love.
Whether you like it or not, AA provides an interesting point, it's not ignorant, but brutally honest. If anything he makes the point that though you can say that free will etc etc, and that looks good on paper, what's it worth when three aid workers are killed in a meaningless car accident.
[QUOTE=BmB;23477827]He loves you enough to let you suffer off of your own volition.[/QUOTE]
Wat.
"I love you so much, I will [i]let[/i] you kill yourself."
See the logic there? Oh wait, there is no logic? That is because it is stupid.
[QUOTE=BmB;23477827]He loves you enough to let you suffer off of your own volition. [/QUOTE]
So if I just look at you while you drown or bleed to death I'm a good person?
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