[QUOTE=Serj22;29178759]Having used to be a security guard, the guard was not correct in action whatsoever, but city codes give schools and theme parks special laws to enact. 620 (or 602, can't remember) is a good one that is for parks and schools, and gives the owner (the city) the right to hire someone, and allow that person to have the authority to eject someone from the premises. It's only trespassing if you are interfering with the business of the school, or if there is a sign posted, or if you were given verbal warning that you were trespassing and the school is not in session on normal school hours.
So what he was saying was right, what he did was wrong.
The proper course of action (since the guard was obviously unarmed) would have been:
1. Ask the skaters to stop what they were doing
2. Ask them to leave
3. If they don't leave threaten to call the police
4. If they still don't leave, call the police then let them come handle it.
If the guard had handcuffs, he could make a citizen's arrest on the skaters, though he couldn't arrest all of them, and it would have been legal to detain them (ask them to sit on the grass and wait for the cops, etc.)
The police would have likely come, issued them a warning, or a citation and told them to leave, and would wait there until they did, or arrest them for being in violation of the city code and not removing themselves from the grounds.
Taking the skateboard made no sense whatsoever, unless the security guard was a PPSO, and the school gave him special instructions to do that. If his training included the removal of skateboards from people like that, then it would be ok for him to do that, and up to the school to take the blame if someone thought it was wrong or illegal.
If the people swung the board at him and used it as a weapon of sorts, the likely action would be to run away, not hit anyone or take it (if they did that). That guy is not getting paid enough to get his ass kicked by idiots.
It was also a bad idea to run back into the fight. Once they pushed his cart or whatever, it was not okay to go back and try to hit someone, it would have been appropriate to get far away from the kids and call the cops and watch the kids till the police showed up.
Edit: I must also make note, trespassing can be comitted by anyone. You don't have to work, go there, or live there, etc... but you can and still be trespassing. All you have to do is make a negative affect on the grounds, or have a posted sign stating what you can not do. Once you've been ejected (asked to leave) you are then trespassing if you don't leave. Say you live in an apartment complex, and there is a pool. You go for a swim at 11pm. There is a sign that says there is no swimming after 9pm, the complex security guard sees you in the pool, and asks you to get out. At this point, it doesn't matter if you live in the complex or not, if you don't get out then you are trespassing. If a school has a sign that says no skateboards, rollerblades, bikes, etc... and you are asked to stop doing that, and refuse, then you are trespassing, whether you go to the school or not.[/QUOTE]
So what part of the law makes it legal to steal a skateboard cause "My employer told me to"?
you just condensed what he said
[QUOTE=Crimor;29181400]So what part of the law makes it legal to steal a skateboard cause "My employer told me to"?[/QUOTE]
I just said it. If your employer trains you to confiscate things in a manner that is safe, then, it's ok. You give the stuff back, unless it is prohibited no matter where you are, like a pipe bomb or something else like that. There are many many laws that protect a school's right to confiscate stuff. In elementary ad middle school I recall many times where kids had their Cd-players or cassette players taken due to them not being allowed on campus. Skateboards were also confiscated. This is nothing new. If you had a pocket knife on campus, and I worked for the school as a teacher, or whatever, I'd have a right to take it, and I'd give it back to you if your parents came and got it.
Technically, you are volunteering for them to take your stuff. Just like when you go to an airport and TSA takes your stuff and doesn't give it back. They give you the option to put it back in the car, but you are usually in a hurry, they say it can't go on the plane, so you let them "discard" it. At that point it has become garbage, and the airport staff has the right to throw it away or dispose of it (or keep it). Same thing if you went to an amusement park, went to the metal detectors and were told you couldn't bring a knife in the park. You then get an option to go put it back in your car or whatever. If you choose to surrender it, it's basically throwing it away, and trash is technically public domain as far as a decision on what to do with it (which is usually throw it away), but garbage can also be kept, this is why you make sure to shred credit card statements and the like, because there's not much you can do about someone rumaging through your trash once you place it on the street.
There is almost always a sign saying that you shouldn't do something or have something or it will be taken. If you bring it or do it anyway, you have just been warned, and volunteered to have your stuff confiscated.
To be a little more condensed, imagine you own a private institution where people learn Spanish as a second language or something. It is a 3 building operation with narrow walkways in-between each building. One day, a person on a bicycle is in a hurry, that does go to your school, and he looks down for a second, looks back up, can't stop, and plows right through 2 people; one of which is a 4-year old boy. What do you think happens? Aside from the injuries, and medical care (which you have to provide through your insurance or out of pocket) due to you owning the property the 3 buildings are sitting on, you will also face a civil suit because the other person is now no longer able to work and needs to be paid reperations for emotional and physical distress. The child will probably have had some major brain injury from falling backwards on their head, and you will need to settle with a payment out of budget every month that will probably set that kid up for life as far as rent/ car payments/ etc goes due to the massive brain trauma and possible mental instability you caused him.
In this same situation, how much do you think the bicyclist will be sued for? Not a damned thing, because he doesn't have any money, YOU DO!
So those same stupid skateboarders are being careless and run into an old woman who falls and breaks her ankle. Do the skateboarders get sued or blamed? Nope, the owner does for not doing anything about it, and not keeping a dangerous activity off the property. Due to this sort of thing, laws were in fact passed that protected campuses, and landlords abilities to do these kinds of things. They are very legal.
Another thing to make note of, is that in some cities, and most states, you are responsible for the sidewalk and street adjacent to your home. Though you are not allowed to make repairs to the sidewalk due to city ordinances usually, you are held accountable if a tree has grown a root under the concrete and made a bump that someone trips over and hurts themselves on. They can technically come after you, as well as the city.
except they weren't rushing to leave and didn't knowingly leave their skateboard with the guard
90% of what you just wrote is irrelevant
edit: in most states it is also illegal to skateboard on city property, which includes but isn't limited to roads and sidewalks. i've been told to pick up my board and walk many times by police officers when riding down even my street.
[QUOTE=FFStudios;29184401]
except they weren't rushing to leave and didn't knowingly leave their skateboard with the guard
90% of what you just wrote is irrelevant
edit: in most states it is also illegal to skateboard on city property, which includes but isn't limited to roads and sidewalks. i've been told to pick up my board and walk many times by police officers when riding down even my street.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure on most college campuses it is not allowed. He is allowed to confiscate stuff from the students after warning them.
The employers own the property, and they can hire security guards to uphold the property's rules as long as it doesn't violate government laws. If his employer told him he could do it, he can do it. They have the rights that are given to them by their employer.
The problem here is the kids probably were lying about being students. They would obviously just run away if the guard called the cops.
[QUOTE=thisispain;29163074]right so it's okay to kill and steal people's things as long as it's your campus because obviously it's your rules?
no i don't think the law works like that[/QUOTE]
Who said kill, and the skate boarder would most likely have to wait a day to get it back just so he receives a lecture. For fuck's sake.
Holy shit, this isn't "Government business, you'll never see this again."
This is a fucking college campus who could get sued because of an employee fucking up. They're more worried about lawsuits from almost anything than they are about academic achievement. The skateboarder would've gotten his board back, and he would just be told not be caught skating on the property again.
I swear, both sides arguing this are being irrational to hell and back equating it to theft and murder. We don't have the full video, we'll probably never see the full video and so we cannot accurately say whether or not either side was right or wrong. In fact we'd probably find that both sides are still massive retards so you can't just pin it on the guards or skate boarders. STOP FUCKING TRYING.
[QUOTE=Swilly;29186379]Who said kill, and the skate boarder would most likely have to wait a day to get it back just so he receives a lecture. For fuck's sake.
Holy shit, this isn't "Government business, you'll never see this again."
This is a fucking college campus who could get sued because of an employee fucking up. They're more worried about lawsuits from almost anything than they are about academic achievement. The skateboarder would've gotten his board back, and he would just be told not be caught skating on the property again.
I swear, both sides arguing this are being irrational to hell and back equating it to theft and murder. We don't have the full video, we'll probably never see the full video and so we cannot accurately say whether or not either side was right or wrong. In fact we'd probably find that both sides are still massive retards so you can't just pin it on the guards or skate boarders. STOP FUCKING TRYING.[/QUOTE]
We're talking about a security guard that punches teens for just asking for their board back so they can leave, I'm pretty sure he would just throw it away somewhere.
And here's the shit I saw on the video:
Kids leaving the campus on their skateboards
Security guard shoves one of them off their skateboard (Assault #1)
Guard steals the skateboard (Theft)
They tell him they'll leave if they get the skateboard back
Guard punches one of them (Assault #2)
Skater attempts taking his stolen property back
Guard punches one of them again (Assault #3)
Skater retrieves his skateboard
Guard sucks at driving and crashes into a waist high wall.
Guard assaults the (Walking) camera man, who has had nothing to do with this other than filming it (Assault #4)
Guard apologizes now that he see's that they're like 8 people that are ready to fight him in self defense.
See anything that didn't happen on the video?
What the skaters did wrong:
They were trespassing.
What the security guard did wrong:
Security guards are normal people, not cops. Security guards do not have the right to confiscate property.
If a security guard takes your stuff in a manner such as in the video in the OP, it's theft.
LOL when he crashed. But what a cunt though, I would have been seriously fucking tempted to give that fat bastard a beatdown with my board.
[QUOTE=ItsGary;29184744]I'm pretty sure on most college campuses it is not allowed. He is allowed to confiscate stuff from the students after warning them.
The employers own the property, and they can hire security guards to uphold the property's rules as long as it doesn't violate government laws. If his employer told him he could do it, he can do it. They have the rights that are given to them by their employer.
The problem here is the kids probably were lying about being students. They would obviously just run away if the guard called the cops.[/QUOTE]
oh so if i hire my friend to guard my driveway he can steal shit out of cars that park there
great
[QUOTE=Serj22;29184243]*the rules*[/QUOTE]
Now that you explain the issues of liability, it all makes sense. A few things seem slightly unfair, but for the most part it keeps power and immunity out of the hands of dickheads.
I love how he hit the wall.
[QUOTE=FFStudios;29196605]oh so if i hire my friend to guard my driveway he can steal shit out of cars that park there
great[/QUOTE]
No, what you just said doesn't even make any sense. But if you owned the property the driveway is on, and you hired a guard to sit there and watch it, if someone walked onto your driveway with a knife and insisted on staying there, then he would have the option to surrender the knife to the guard, throw it away, or leave. It's perfectly acceptable for the knife-wielder to just walk off your driveway at that point and keep his knife, as long as he stays off your driveway with it. If the guy insisted on staying, you can confiscate the knife. If he would not let you take it, and would not leave, then you'd call the cops and they'd come remove him from the driveway and possibly confiscate his knife anyway, since it's a weapon.
I keep trying to explain this not to be mean to you - but to help you understand what goes on, but you are a little biased probably from either having to deal with this situation yourself, or having some kind of unfit rage towards authority in general and a lack of understanding of laws, which is alright, you just may want to read up some if you don't believe me. AS I said originally, the security guard was wrong and should not have handled the situation as he did, at no point did I say his seizure of that board was the right thing to do under the circumstances.
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chernzobog;29201065]Now that you explain the issues of liability, it all makes sense. A few things seem slightly unfair, but for the most part it keeps power and immunity out of the hands of dickheads.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. They'd hurt someone and take no blame whatsoever while the property owner would face all the consequences. You got it.
He wasn't being offensive at all. This obviously wasn't the first time he warned them, as the video just cuts in to the cop pushing him over. He even says so in the video, these guys were just being assholes.
[editline]16th April 2011[/editline]
Especially if it wasn't their property. Thought it was funny when they were saying "You can't take my board!..." acting like a child.
[QUOTE=Crimor;29187908]We're talking about a security guard that punches teens for just asking for their board back so they can leave, I'm pretty sure he would just throw it away somewhere.
And here's the shit I saw on the video:
Kids leaving the campus on their skateboards
Security guard shoves one of them off their skateboard (Assault #1)
Guard steals the skateboard (Theft)
They tell him they'll leave if they get the skateboard back
Guard punches one of them (Assault #2)
Skater attempts taking his stolen property back
Guard punches one of them again (Assault #3)
Skater retrieves his skateboard
Guard sucks at driving and crashes into a waist high wall.
Guard assaults the (Walking) camera man, who has had nothing to do with this other than filming it (Assault #4)
Guard apologizes now that he see's that they're like 8 people that are ready to fight him in self defense.
See anything that didn't happen on the video?[/QUOTE]
Like them ignoring the first couple of times being told to leave. Probably even a warning that he would take their stuff if they didn't go...
And what makes you think they were leaving? This is exactly why there isn't enough in the damn video to judge because I didn't see them leaving.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;29127885]It's the skateboarders fault, they're trespassing and acting like general dickheads. If you had to deal with this shit every other day I'd snap too and take their skateboard. It's not like he's going to throw it away, just put it somewhere where they could come get it later.[/QUOTE]
Thats why I don't want you to ever become a security guard or police officer.
You're a shitty cop if you can't contain yourself.
Fuck security guards. They're private security meaning they aren't the law, they were only hired and they cant do shit.
[QUOTE=TEAMGiant;29234612]Fuck security guards. They're private security meaning they aren't the law, they were only hired and they cant do shit.[/QUOTE]
naw, they can detain you under special circumstances or if you don't heed to their verbal warnings.
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