A Russian woman experiences gender in the Nordic countries - General

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47638152]Of course, but I'm talking about the cause of that. I never meant to say that you think that way, my rant about the "biotruthers" was more of an example of how some people actually think. I never said a word about forcing anyone to do/like anything, my point is the exact opposite of that [editline]1st May 2015[/editline] These aren't things I've read online somewhere, I've heard them first-hand, so no, sorry My point is that we shouldn't have a society in which people are afraid/uncomfortable to do/openly like certain things, because they're "not for them" because they're of the "wrong" gender[/QUOTE] I concede that using the term "forcing" might be too strong, however you are strongly pushing ideas that don't reflect a free society. You seem to imply "Women in STEM educations and careers are still very rare" is bad even though it's in the most free countries where you notice this disparity the most (I'm all for encouraging but it's a fine line between encouragement and pressure to meet some sort of quota) and you somehow feel knowledgeable in dismissing what you mock as "biotruths" in that men are fascinated with logical things even though there are plenty of studies that support it.

A lot of "biotruths" are actually quite true. Men and women have different bodies, to accommodate that they also have different chemistry and brain. For example on average men are stronger than women because in animal kingdom males are built for fighting and straining physical activities. That's also why generally men prefer fast cars and military oriented stuff. But these things vary a lot on individual level. A very easy way to validate many biotruths is by looking at how estrogen and testosterone affects our mind and body. I said it before somewhere else, pump a feminine woman with testosterone and she will become a butch man with a vagina. Or pump a man with estrogen and he will both physically and mentally become feminine. Hell, testosterone affects muscle growth, hence why men are stronger by default. That's why we should not be forcing or shaming anyone for doing either gender stereotypical things or gender anti-stereotypical things.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47639440]That's why we should not be forcing or shaming anyone for doing either gender stereotypical things or gender anti-stereotypical things.[/QUOTE] Except equally, people use biotruths as a basis for enforcing gender roles and identities. Hell, when I was younger, I did that (shitty as I was).

[QUOTE=gufu;47639817]Except equally, people use biotruths as a basis for enforcing gender roles and identities. Hell, when I was younger, I did that (shitty as I was).[/QUOTE] Really, it's stupid to believe that people's psychology solely depends on hormones just like it is stupid to believe they have no significant effect on the psyche. Going to either extreme is not sensible.

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47634695]Women in STEM educations and careers are still very rare.[/quote] And you're totally ignoring the rather strong liklihood that they're simply not interested. Even if we had no social norms dicating what one gender should do you'd still see gender splits in many areas out of nothing more than honest, innocent interest/disinterest. If Women, as a majority, aren't interested in X no amount of equality is going to resolve a gender split in X. [quote] Men who likes/do ""girly"" things still get ridiculed.[/quote] And it's in sharp decline. Those stigmas you ranted on about, that you strawmanned against, are dying off, and for good reason. Still, there's always gonna be gender splits in some parts of our society. There's always going to be professions that have more men than women, more women than men, and that everlasting split will eventually stem 95% from the interests of an average person of that gender. We're making massive strides towards breaking down the social expectations and reaching that point, but let's not delude ourselves with ideations of a perfectly 50/50 gender mix in every facet of society. Men and Women are not wired the same and will, on average, have different preferences for their futures.