• MGSV: A Bad Open World Game
    67 replies, posted
Not to derail things, but there is a youtuber I can't find and it's been killing me. He reviewed games and talked about the concepts behind games a shitton and he had this mascot like a dude in a suit with a T-Rex head that appeared in all of his videos whenever he was speaking. Pls help me find it.
[QUOTE=redBadger;50083665]mgsv just wasn't even that great to begin with. the open world was bland and I heard the ending was a complete joke[/QUOTE] the ending isn't even part of the game, it's a mix of cg and storyboard that they never got a chance to put in the game as a mission.
anyone expecting more than a fully fleshed out, next gen peace walker was completely delusional also what's up with the weird filter over the video?
[QUOTE=usaokay;50085018]Make that 3-5 more years. Chapter 2 wasn't even close to being halfway done. If you look at Final Fantasy XV and it's ten year development time, then holy shit, that looks amazing (who knows if it will play like ass similar to FF XIII). Problem was Konami making shitty business decisions in the past six years with Castlevania and Silent Hill. Square-Enix has (actually good) western properties (Tomb Raider, Hitman, Deus Ex) to keep them afloat. If Konami's games (other than MGS) were profitable and actually good, then we could have seen MGSV come out in 2020 or something. I am pretty sure Sony will throw a lot of money at whatever Kojima might make.[/QUOTE] I am not so sure of that. The game was a victim of feature creep rather than anything else, and unless there were serious budget cuts it's Kojima being unable to handle being actually famous now. It's not just the inner circle of gaming that knows about him, and shit like avi arad (lol) convincing him to hire bigger names (nothing against sutherland or his performance) might have impacted the budget in way it wouldn't have if he kept to being realistic so unless sony is willing to put up with losing a lot of money on features that could be cut and have a game of the same quality, I don't really know hoping for the best, always liked the guy
sry
[QUOTE=TheJoey;50082026]my opinion on the open world mechanic in Metal Gear Solid V. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LP-uLcn26E[/media] tl;dr it doesn't do enough with open world to let the world seem alive.[/QUOTE] Great video man. Could not agree more.
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;50085183]We've got Battle Gear, [b]guard dogs[/b], and KotF. What else do we know was actually cut?[/QUOTE] Sad thing is, they [i]have[/i] dog AI in the game, thanks to the wild wolves and animals you can encounter. They could've easily assigned specific types to outposts or certain bases, or maybe after enemy alertness reaches a certain point, given them patrol routes and had the allegiances filled over, but they didn't even bother. So we see guard dogs at the beginning of Ground Zeroes, and in concept art, but never actually in-game in GZ or TPP.
I really enjoyed the game, enough to get 80ish hours out of it. It did start feeling more and more bland after the wow factor of being able to do all this stuff, especially how the side missions started just becoming repeats and it was quite dull completing one in like 1 minute then spending 5 mins travelling to the next one. I remember a review stating that in a way the game gave too much freedom, which I kinda agree with. There were a million ways to dispose of people but in reality I just ended up using tranq or assault rifle and almost never used any of the extra gear aside from sleeping gas nades. MP was the biggest disappointment for me though. After the amount of fun I had on MGO PS3 I was pretty hype for it. First they delay it by 3 months then we find out it's P2P which effectively ruined it. Even in good connection games I constantly had weird laggy stuff happen which just made it frustrating.
The game needed more story. More kojima story making details and a Snake asking questions all the time about shit in the world. The whole game was rushed as it seems.
Lets not forget the lack of Ocelot and the fact that some scenes look subpar in comparison to past games. The jeep ride is awkward as fuck and is put together in the wrong way, and the quarantine platform part was put together badly aswell. Really badly. It loses all its impact the way its put together. If they had the cutscene right after you killed the last guy instead of making you walk to the door, it would have made a whole lot more sense and kept its impact.
One of the things I was hyped for is non-fob motherbase invasions. Like I thought it could randomly happen, because one of the first things I heard is fake people dressed as MSF show up. But even then theres no struggle, there should of been a way to go in loud with that mission with all your soldiers and such. Imagine god damn helicopters flying over, dropping off troops and diamond dogs soldiers cutting them off in jeeps and such.
I really hate how they went the open world route on this. I much much prefer the linearity of the old ones. I had sold my copy about 15% into the game because it was just so boring running from A to B.
[QUOTE=TedStriker;50082170]Yeah, what the fuck were people thinking to give the game so many awards? I bought, beat it, uninstalled it. Don't get me wrong: it's not bad, but compared to other MGS titles it's just bland. There's really not much to do in the world than ever repeating sidequests. No real variety, no real memorable moments. I kinda regret buying it...[/QUOTE] For me it had the best fucking stealth gameplay I've ever experienced outside of the Hitman style of games. But yeah the story was odd to say the least, and not in the good way MGS games normally are.
[QUOTE=Cushie;50085989]I really enjoyed the game, enough to get 80ish hours out of it. It did start feeling more and more bland after the wow factor of being able to do all this stuff, especially how the side missions started just becoming repeats and it was quite dull completing one in like 1 minute then spending 5 mins travelling to the next one. I remember a review stating that in a way the game gave too much freedom, which I kinda agree with. There were a million ways to dispose of people but in reality I just ended up using tranq or assault rifle and almost never used any of the extra gear aside from sleeping gas nades.[/QUOTE] Not to mention actively discouraging you from using everything at your disposal. It's probably my biggest gripe about the game. The Chicken Hat and [sp]Parasite Suit[/sp] are one thing, but limiting your mission rating for effectively using your resources like the helicopter? I dunno, maybe it's just me, but i don't really appreciate having gold held over me while being told i have to settle for my rocks. Also, imo, worth mentioning that it needlessly suffers from the "you CAN kill everything but it'll bite you in the ass later, especially in your mission scores" stealth trope.
[QUOTE=TedStriker;50082170]Yeah, what the fuck were people thinking to give the game so many awards? I bought, beat it, uninstalled it. Don't get me wrong: it's not bad, but compared to other MGS titles it's just bland. There's really not much to do in the world than ever repeating sidequests. No real variety, no real memorable moments. I kinda regret buying it...[/QUOTE] I regret the purchase. Had to force myself to finish it. Bad game and maybe the worst MGS. I enjoyed AC!D more.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;50092291]Not to mention actively discouraging you from using everything at your disposal. It's probably my biggest gripe about the game. The Chicken Hat and [sp]Parasite Suit[/sp] are one thing, but limiting your mission rating for effectively using your resources like the helicopter? I dunno, maybe it's just me, but i don't really appreciate having gold held over me while being told i have to settle for my rocks. Also, imo, worth mentioning that it needlessly suffers from the "you CAN kill everything but it'll bite you in the ass later, especially in your mission scores" stealth trope.[/QUOTE] If anything I found the opposite true. It's great that you can use anything you want in exchange for maximum A rating. They hit both worlds in that decision I think. Allowing player freedom while also retaining designer choices, in the end giving player the means to play however they choose.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;50092291]Not to mention actively discouraging you from using everything at your disposal. It's probably my biggest gripe about the game. The Chicken Hat and [sp]Parasite Suit[/sp] are one thing, but limiting your mission rating for effectively using your resources like the helicopter? I dunno, maybe it's just me, but i don't really appreciate having gold held over me while being told i have to settle for my rocks. Also, imo, worth mentioning that it needlessly suffers from the "you CAN kill everything but it'll bite you in the ass later, especially in your mission scores" stealth trope.[/QUOTE] Well yeah, despite the shift in gameplay it's still a stealth game at heart. Snake is still God emperor of sneaking up on dudes, and straight up killing most soldiers is counter to one of his goals, which is to expand Diamond Dogs back to MSF tier greatness and beyond. You only need to perfectly stealth a mission once, then you can go back and do whatever you want with no penalty really. As much as I thoroughly enjoyed the game (even if it was clearly lacking a chapter, the ending was still pretty good for me), the open world aspect could really do with work. Taking over outposts becomes a chore after a while, and as mentioned in the video the lack of infighting between factions is killer.
I've honestly never been more dissapointed in a game than I was with MGSV. Metal Gear Eolid is my favorite games series and the game just fell way to flat. It started out with this holy fucking shit opening, and then the rest of the game ended up being a repetitive infilitrate base game with little cutscenes or story, across the most boring environment I've ever seen. I honestly couldn't finish the game. The gameplay, the stealth, and everything felt so smooth and solid it was great. But the setting, lack of story; and repetitive missions made it feel flat. If they had sticked to smaller instances like Ground Zeroes I think I would've enjoyed it way more. i have a dream that somebody recreates MGS1-3 with a modern engine and gameplay style although I know that'd never happen.
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;50092291]Also, imo, worth mentioning that it needlessly suffers from the "you CAN kill everything but it'll bite you in the ass later, especially in your mission scores" stealth trope.[/QUOTE] If there were no penalties for going in guns blazing, there would be absolutely zero reason not to. Why would you bother being sneaky stealthy and knocking out guards when it's 10x easier to just shoot them? There's a reason it's a trope, because in a stealth-focused game, there needs to be an actual incentive for playing stealth. Or would you rather go back to the days of "An enemy has seen you. Game over"?
It does create sort of a weird thing in the game design though. The game wants you to non-lethal, both for fultons and for mission rankings and rewards. But then you're invariably forced to bring some sort of lethal weaponry along because surprise surprise it's the motherfucking Skulls here to ruin your anus and their rock armor from the second fight on rejects all non-lethal weaponry entirely. If you run around killing everything, the only truly inherent punishment outside of enemies being more likely to be alerted by dead corpses rather than sleeping ones, is an invisible demon system that just makes your horn longer and gives you permanent blood. It's.. more like a joke, a mockery of you being an asshole than something unsettling. So naturally at least 75% of all your weapons and items are lethal, and while the non-lethal are effective, for a usually slow-paced game like MGS the enemies have a pretty good chance of waking up soon enough. It's not MGS4 levels of 'metric fuckton of guns that all basically do the same thing in killing guys really hard' but it's up there. Not to mention most of the non-lethal stuff is like, one or two variants of lethal weapons that are functionally identical otherwise. You still have a lot of non-lethal options compared to something like Dishonored, but unlike Dishonored which ruined your story if you were a murderous asshole, The Phantom Pain just silently thinks you're a dick, docks your points on a mission, and doesn't really care but doesn't really provide a reason outside of enemy alertness levels to bother with variety or killing either. It's fucking apathetic unless you're really good at total stealth runs, and it makes all that shit feel superfluous when it barely cares.
[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;50098928]If there were no penalties for going in guns blazing, there would be absolutely zero reason not to. Why would you bother being sneaky stealthy and knocking out guards when it's 10x easier to just shoot them? There's a reason it's a trope, because in a stealth-focused game, there needs to be an actual incentive for playing stealth. Or would you rather go back to the days of "An enemy has seen you. Game over"?[/QUOTE] There's a reason i said right there at the beginning that it was my opinion, because i know not everyone is going to agree with it. But part of the point in having an open game with many courses of action is to be able to actually do those things, not be actively discouraged from one course. I mean yeah, guns blazing WOULD be easier but having the option to go back through and get a difference experience by doing it stealthy adds replayability to the game and doesn't railroad me into one experience unless i want to go back through and screw myself over later on by not doing it that way. For example, in another genre, in Dark Souls 9 out of 10 people start as your typical knight to experience the game, but go back through later as different builds. It doesn't actively put me off from any one action and allows me to experience the game in many ways many times without consequence. I think Bioshock had the best version of this sort of dillema. Altering the ending aside, you COULD harvest all of the Little Sisters and get more Adam that way, OR you could save them and get gifts as well. I'm not actively being impeded in any way unless i'm going for a specific ending. But again, this is my opinion and i don't expect anyone to agree with it.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;50086805]Lets not forget the lack of Ocelot and the fact that some scenes look subpar in comparison to past games. The jeep ride is awkward as fuck and is put together in the wrong way, and the quarantine platform part was put together badly aswell. Really badly. It loses all its impact the way its put together. If they had the cutscene right after you killed the last guy instead of making you walk to the door, it would have made a whole lot more sense and kept its impact.[/QUOTE] My favourite part of the Quarantine Platform is the glaring typo above the front door. [t]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/353899007307503001/7A5D68477B0BCBF60A50EEEFE16C15BA85F7C3FF/[/t]
[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;50085183]We've got Battle Gear, guard dogs, and KotF. What else do we know was actually cut?[/QUOTE] David Hayter :v: Other than that: Because of the removed guard dogs, showering had once more purpose, the guard dogs could smell you when you haven't been taking a shower for a while... KotF was by no means Mission 51 and is not the only mission missing There were more missions in Camp Omega (not only sideops; footage of this is still seen in the old trailers) A more fleshed out Child Soldier backstory (As seen in the trailers with them in training) (What happened to the burning village scene in the trailers?) Battle Gear customizations and it was useable - probably even used in the extra ops Weapons - melee weapons such as machettes, the Patriot, the Nosin of "The End" some remains are still found on the disc. Visual filters, such as an 80s styled screen filter (It was teased by Kojima over the past years on twitter) More interaction with PAZ, possibly some missions connected to her and or more cutscenes The Jeep ride's "Dialogue" with Skullface was cut together out the voice lines of several scrapped missions, the player had more encounters with Skullface in the first place A mission editor (Teased several times, it was compareable to how you create own missions in Hitman) Apparently more backstory about DDog and his origin/breed Enemies in the open world calling in for heavy reinforcement such as helicopters and tanks - if you used Battle Gear in the open world, enemies would hit you hard with everything they got I also refuse to believe that bike that was seen in the last cutscene was created just for that last damn cutscene. [url]https://www.vg247.com/2015/10/24/snakes-metal-gear-solid-triumph-motorcycle-is-up-for-sale-on-ebay/[/url] It was teased on one of the trailers with Venom on it (that cutscene got repurosed), the bike was produced and it was seen on every god damn videogame event simply to be nowhere in the game?
[QUOTE=usaokay;50092962]I'm just glad this felt more like a side story and a explanation of some minor plot devices (like [sp]body doubles, Zero's vegetation, and FOXDIE[/sp]) and the entire story practically ended with MGS4. [editline]8th April 2016[/editline] I'm pretty much comparing Chapter 1's original missions to Chapter 2.[/QUOTE] How did MGSV explain the third thing in the spoiler? [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;50098928]If there were no penalties for going in guns blazing, there would be absolutely zero reason not to. Why would you bother being sneaky stealthy and knocking out guards when it's 10x easier to just shoot them? There's a reason it's a trope, because in a stealth-focused game, there needs to be an actual incentive for playing stealth. Or would you rather go back to the days of "An enemy has seen you. Game over"?[/QUOTE] There a penalty to not going in guns blazing: you can't extract them. You're gonna want to be stealthy, take people out, and then add them to expand your Mother Base. And that's basically mandatory to develop a good chunk of items. The reward for stealth gameplay is expanding your base. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=RikohZX;50098958]It does create sort of a weird thing in the game design though. The game wants you to non-lethal, both for fultons and for mission rankings and rewards. But then you're invariably forced to bring some sort of lethal weaponry along because surprise surprise it's the motherfucking Skulls here to ruin your anus and their rock armor from the second fight on rejects all non-lethal weaponry entirely. If you run around killing everything, the only truly inherent punishment outside of enemies being more likely to be alerted by dead corpses rather than sleeping ones, is an invisible demon system that just makes your horn longer and gives you permanent blood. It's.. more like a joke, a mockery of you being an asshole than something unsettling.[/quote] This was a [I]major[/I] gripe I had with this game. I'd see that I'd have a mission to sneak in and extract, so I'd prepare my weapons accordingly. Usually I go as non-lethal as possible, if anything a lethal assault rifle in case I get caught and can't make my way out on just my non-lethal weapons. So, I'll ready up, deploy, start the mission, and [I]then[/I] find out I have Skulls to fight. Well, great, now I'm unprepared, and have to go back and re-prepare. Or call in a new loadout halfway through the mission. [QUOTE=RikohZX;50098958]So naturally at least 75% of all your weapons and items are lethal, and while the non-lethal are effective, for a usually slow-paced game like MGS the enemies have a pretty good chance of waking up soon enough. It's not MGS4 levels of 'metric fuckton of guns that all basically do the same thing in killing guys really hard' but it's up there. Not to mention most of the non-lethal stuff is like, one or two variants of lethal weapons that are functionally identical otherwise. You still have a lot of non-lethal options compared to something like Dishonored, but unlike Dishonored which ruined your story if you were a murderous asshole, The Phantom Pain just silently thinks you're a dick, docks your points on a mission, and doesn't really care but doesn't really provide a reason outside of enemy alertness levels to bother with variety or killing either. It's fucking apathetic unless you're really good at total stealth runs, and it makes all that shit feel superfluous when it barely cares.[/QUOTE] I've never had an issue with enemies waking up, unless I was sticking around for a really long time. Plus, the game makes you choose between which way you want an enemy non-lethally taken down: stunning, which is quickest but they'll usually wake up the quickest, sleep which requires tranquilizing them, or holding them up and telling them to get down, which makes them stay down permanently until you get caught. I thought that was perfectly fine. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DMGaina;50099357]I also refuse to believe that bike that was seen in the last cutscene was created just for that last damn cutscene. [url]https://www.vg247.com/2015/10/24/snakes-metal-gear-solid-triumph-motorcycle-is-up-for-sale-on-ebay/[/url] It was teased on one of the trailers with Venom on it (that cutscene got repurosed), the bike was produced and it was seen on every god damn videogame event simply to be nowhere in the game?[/QUOTE] Man you have no idea how upset I was over this. I would have killed for an end-game vehicle unlock that just had really high speed. But [I]noooo[/I]
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;50099541]This was a [I]major[/I] gripe I had with this game. I'd see that I'd have a mission to sneak in and extract, so I'd prepare my weapons accordingly. Usually I go as non-lethal as possible, if anything a lethal assault rifle in case I get caught and can't make my way out on just my non-lethal weapons. So, I'll ready up, deploy, start the mission, and [I]then[/I] find out I have Skulls to fight. Well, great, now I'm unprepared, and have to go back and re-prepare. Or call in a new loadout halfway through the mission.[/QUOTE] I had the same thing happen to me because I tuned out the mission opening credits after a point and it took me by surprise, I barely managed to beat the mission with grenades and CQC counters since naturally the checkpoint put me right before the fight and all I had was non-lethal equipment otherwise. Didn't think to put in another loadout. On one hand it's great that they give you the option to improvise mid-mission with a different loadout (for a fee), but on the other hand you either have to pre-set 3 different loadouts for different situations which can be a bother due to all the item slots, or drop the necessary weapons/items in one at a time incase you forgot to set the loadouts, which takes fucking forever.
[QUOTE=omarfr;50098851]I've honestly never been more dissapointed in a game than I was with MGSV. Metal Gear Eolid is my favorite games series and the game just fell way to flat. It started out with this holy fucking shit opening, and then the rest of the game ended up being a repetitive infilitrate base game with little cutscenes or story, across the most boring environment I've ever seen. I honestly couldn't finish the game. The gameplay, the stealth, and everything felt so smooth and solid it was great. But the setting, lack of story; and repetitive missions made it feel flat. If they had sticked to smaller instances like Ground Zeroes I think I would've enjoyed it way more. i have a dream that somebody recreates MGS1-3 with a modern engine and gameplay style although I know that'd never happen.[/QUOTE] I think one of the biggest kick in the balls was that the final story mission of the game is literally the prologue copy-pasted except for two details (and when it's first revealed that [sp]you're the medic,[/sp] you're looking out for changed details later in the mission, so you don't skip any of the lengthy cutscenes that really drag along since you've already seen it before). God what a disaster. Any excitement from the initial twist was deflated by the time I had to slog through the prologue again.
[QUOTE=Jimesu_Evil;50098928]If there were no penalties for going in guns blazing, there would be absolutely zero reason not to. Why would you bother being sneaky stealthy and knocking out guards when it's 10x easier to just shoot them? There's a reason it's a trope, because in a stealth-focused game, there needs to be an actual incentive for playing stealth. Or would you rather go back to the days of "An enemy has seen you. Game over"?[/QUOTE] There were no penalties at all in Blacklist to go in guns blazing or killing everyone and it just felt more satisfying to play.
[QUOTE=DMGaina;50099357]David Hayter :v: Other than that: Because of the removed guard dogs, showering had once more purpose, the guard dogs could smell you when you haven't been taking a shower for a while... KotF was by no means Mission 51 and is not the only mission missing There were more missions in Camp Omega (not only sideops; footage of this is still seen in the old trailers) A more fleshed out Child Soldier backstory (As seen in the trailers with them in training) (What happened to the burning village scene in the trailers?) Battle Gear customizations and it was useable - probably even used in the extra ops Weapons - melee weapons such as machettes, the Patriot, the Nosin of "The End" some remains are still found on the disc. Visual filters, such as an 80s styled screen filter (It was teased by Kojima over the past years on twitter) More interaction with PAZ, possibly some missions connected to her and or more cutscenes The Jeep ride's "Dialogue" with Skullface was cut together out the voice lines of several scrapped missions, the player had more encounters with Skullface in the first place A mission editor (Teased several times, it was compareable to how you create own missions in Hitman) Apparently more backstory about DDog and his origin/breed Enemies in the open world calling in for heavy reinforcement such as helicopters and tanks - if you used Battle Gear in the open world, enemies would hit you hard with everything they got I also refuse to believe that bike that was seen in the last cutscene was created just for that last damn cutscene. [url]https://www.vg247.com/2015/10/24/snakes-metal-gear-solid-triumph-motorcycle-is-up-for-sale-on-ebay/[/url] It was teased on one of the trailers with Venom on it (that cutscene got repurosed), the bike was produced and it was seen on every god damn videogame event simply to be nowhere in the game?[/QUOTE] All of that was cut? Jesus christ... You just reminded me... We did nothing with that battle gear, except for like 3 combat deployment missions. What the fuck.
[QUOTE=DMGaina;50099357](What happened to the burning village scene in the trailers?)[/quote] You can find at least one burned village in Africa in the corner of the map, but no missions take place there, and there's never any story scenes or anything involving the place. It's just there as a remnant from development. [quote]Apparently more backstory about DDog and his origin/breed[/QUOTE] This always bugged me because in the 2014 Africa gameplay footage, they show D-Dog's puppy self around a dead wolf mother that was presumably shot. In the final product, D-Dog just appears randomly at helicopter points in Afghanistan early in the game with no context beyond Ocelot complimenting the pup for being a tough survivor. It's like they clearly had more planned but cut it, and simultaneously wanted to make sure the 'trailer mascot' was gainable almost immediately after the game really begins. [editline]9th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;50103144]All of that was cut? Jesus christ... You just reminded me... We did nothing with that battle gear, except for like 3 combat deployment missions. What the fuck.[/QUOTE] Battle Gear was entirely intended to be playable out in side-ops and the open world. Then the developers literally went, "This is overpowered," and cut it from gameplay altogether while leaving it only in top-rank deployments. You know, despite the battery-operated Stealth Camo, the Parasite Armor and requisite external power-ups usable by it, the armor-piercing anti-material sniper rifle that can destroy most vehicles in the game, and other things like the plant that marks every enemy in the area automatically as well as the one that artificially creates extended Reflex periods to efficiently deal with threats in a short span of time.
I agree there's not much to do after missions and the map is empty but the reason they did open world was to have complete freedom to mission approach, not to go bowling with Kaz. Open world map doesn't necessarily mean sandbox like The Witcher, The Elder Scrolls or GTA.
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