Muslim student go crazy in campus showing anti-Islamic amateur film in Sweden 2012.
91 replies, posted
[QUOTE=huyu;38124091]
We have the right to offend anyone in any way, it doesn't mean that the people doing it aren't bloody morons, but [B]they STILL have the RIGHT to do so. [/B]
[/QUOTE]
That's where you're wrong.
You have no right to offend people. You don't direct to random people on the streets that insert a stereotype you have in your head and say "Your beliefs is stupid, look at this drawings making fun of it" and expect them to behave or not to be angry.
First because it doesn't prove any point, second because you're making a huge unfair generalization.
Let's say I start making paintings of your mother with open legs in degrading pornographic positions, getting gangbanged, bukaked, all kinds of sick shit you may think of. All in the name of art and free speech.
Let's say I crowd an entire amphitheatre and show images of all the present people's mothers at the sound of "Gay bar", insinuating the love you have for your mother is something ridiculous to feel.
Would that make me an artist? And by being an artist, would being an artist confer me green light to start doing such things freely?
Now, we all know Muhamed is not a Mother, and it's kind of a far fetched analogy, however the love Muslims feel for their beliefs is as strong as the love we feel for our parents. Believe me, it is.
And as incomprehensible to the western world as it may be, despite there not being any actual laws and punishments for such behaviours, we have absolutely no right to bash other people's deep beliefs and spiritual connections, be it to a mother or a dead prophet from another culture.
[QUOTE=God dammit;38123763]Never quite understood Islam's tolerances. [B]We[/B] let[B] them [/B]build mosques here, but [B]we[/B] can't build churches in their [B]country?[/B]
Does Freedom of Speech to[B] them [/B]mean as much as Copyright Infringement to the chinese? [/QUOTE]
i didnt know islam was a country/monolothic hive mind entity
[QUOTE=ionuttzu;38124114]What a surprise, muslims acting like brainless retards[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=cucumber;38122801]Stupid Muslims. Guys i really cant understand that, why EU countries and US let Muslims to immigrate?
They are just making problems.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mean swagger;38117751]these people are fucking savages, they should be killed. I'm glad these extremist nutjobs are getting killed off in afghanistan.[/QUOTE]
sigh
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;38124306]That's where you're wrong.
You have no right to offend people. You don't direct to random people on the streets that insert a stereotype you have in your head and say "Your beliefs is stupid, look at this drawings making fun of it" and expect them to behave or not to be angry.
First because it doesn't prove any point, second because you're making a huge unfair generalization.
Let's say I start making paintings of your mother with open legs in degrading pornographic positions, getting gangbanged, bukaked, all kinds of sick shit you may think of. All in the name of art and free speech.
Let's say I crowd an entire amphitheatre and show images of all the present people's mothers at the sound of "Gay bar", insinuating the love you have for your mother is something ridiculous to feel.
Would that make me an artist? And by being an artist, would being an artist confer me green light to start doing such things freely?
Now, we all know Muhamed is not a Mother, and it's kind of a far fetched analogy, however the love Muslims feel for their beliefs is as strong as the love we feel for our parents.
And as incomprehensible to the western world as it may be, despite there not being any actual laws and punishments for such behaviours, we have absolutely no right to bash other people's deep beliefs and spiritual connections, be it to a mother or a dead prophet from another culture.[/QUOTE]
While your argument is far fetched as you said, I can see your point. But I never said they aren't expected to get angry, however they were never forced to be there, they chose to be angry and savages.
Sure you can choose to use my mother as an argument, that'll spite me and win me over on your side. But let's pretend with the thought that you did do this. I would certainly have been angry with you, but you would still be legally allowed to make me angry.
If you however said that what you drew was a real thing without it being so, that would be slander and a crime in most places.
And since deities can't really be proven to exist or not, this incident falls under the freedom of speech.
I can show you lots of western people being wild and savage over much mundane things because they chose too.
And second, do you choose to be angry? Because where I'm from people usually get angry as a consequence of something.
Also does the fact of them being there by choice invalidate how immoral it was to show them such thing?
Is it correct to naively assume that freedom of speech as legal as it may be isn't used about 80% of the time as an excuse to buid up conflict between nations.
Should we now allow Nazis to freely hate the jews and sit by and watch as hatred grows between east and west because it's all in the name of freedom of speech?
[QUOTE=Big Bang;38118241]The people there weren't most likely extremists to begin with, it's a reaction you could get out of showing a video of defacing a Christian church in front of a Christian crowd.[/QUOTE]
Dude, how many times have we seen Youtube videos insulting Christians and Christianity and how many times have we seen a massive Christian riot/assassination/bombing/etc?
[QUOTE=Robbi;38124684]Dude, how many times have we seen Youtube videos insulting Christians and Christianity and how many times have we seen a massive Christian riot/assassination/bombing/etc?[/QUOTE]
Not the case here.
In the west we do not become savages because someone insulted our religion we do it because our sport team lost or we disagreed with the outcome of a trial. Once again too many people fall to conformation bias without even trying to understand the culture.
I always thought it was funny that a friend of mine in high school wold go on and on about Muslims being "savages" and every time he met a Muslim would just assume they were the exception to the rule. The reason there are so many videos of Muslims over reacting is not because the majority of Muslims do but because the ones that do are more likely to attend something like this.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;38123969]
And frankly, I don't think crowding random muslims in a room showing them naked people with mohameds face photoshoped in it proves any point or does any good to art.[/QUOTE]
I believe that art comes from evoking feelings inside yourself, and I think that Vilks evidently succeeded in doing so.
[QUOTE=smeismastger;38123656]Christianity and Islam are equally bullshit ways of bending people to your will and do things "for the will of God". They shouldn't even be counted as religion.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry I abused you in the pa---
Oh wait I didn't, so pull your head out of your cavernous rectum and see that [I]not all religious people want to oppress you.[/I]
[QUOTE=Mooe94;38125050]I believe that art comes from evoking feelings inside yourself, and I think that Vilks evidently succeeded in doing so.[/QUOTE]
So he has just invented a cheap and easy way to make art. Congratulations to him.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;38126825]So he has just invented a cheap and easy way to make art. Congratulations to him.[/QUOTE]
Hey, at least he made something.
[QUOTE=Mooe94;38117858]This presentation was a part of the seminar held by Swedish artist [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lars_Vilks]Lars Vilks[/url] (you might know him for his drawings of Muhammed from 2007) at Uppsala Universitet in 2010.
Prior to the seminar Vilks had generated a lot of hatred from most Muslim fundamentalists and that is probably the reason why they all gathered to the seminar; to spew hatred on Vilks and his creations.
That is also probably the reason for the amount of cops on the location.
Here's some of the controversial drawings of Muhammed:
[img]http://bonaofficia.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/profeten-muhammed-som-rondellhund.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.trivia.se/bilder/questions/863-20070901210915.jpg[/img] [img]http://petterssons.bloggsida.se/files/2011/12/muh-hund-originallit.jpg[/img]
I think, if I'm not mistaken, that Vilks made the drawings as a way to show the boundary of free speech as an argument against religious fundamentalism and extremism.
[editline]21st October 2012[/editline]
I don't know very much about the whole Vilks drama/situation, but hopefully I made some things a bit more clear.
Here's some info on the lecture day from wiki[/QUOTE]
TAKE IT OFF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED MUST NOT BE SHOWN BECAUSE IT WOULD RUIN MY IMAGIONATION LIKE READING A BOOX THEN WATCHING A FILM.
TAKE IT OFF
TAKE IT OFF!
EDIT: Above was a post from a raid on an islamic forum by trolls. Thought people would recognize it. Ill try and find the thread.
[QUOTE=MisterMedia;38127371]TAKE IT OFF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED MUST NOT BE SHOWN BECAUSE IT WOULD RUIN MY IMAGIONATION LIKE READING A BOOX THEN WATCHING A FILM.
TAKE IT OFF
TAKE IT OFF![/QUOTE]
I cant tell if you are trying to make a witty remark about people who do not understand why they do not display their prophet or if you are one of them.
A lot of the people here saying that the Muslims in the room are crybabies for reacting like that really need to look at this from a different perspective.
A Muslims' religion is ingrained in their personality and culture as they have been exposed to it throughout the entirety of their lives. Their religion prohibits imagery of their prophet and god, so naturally they're going to get pissed if a video plays of their prophet having oily sex with other men. A rational Muslim might not resort to violence in a situation like this, but those individuals got really pissed off by that video. I don't condone the violence, but we should at least acknowledge why they're upset.
A lot of you guys are doing a complete mental 180 about this video, too. If the video was criticizing atheism, transsexualism, or homosexuality in a hateful manner you would probably all blow a fuse just like the Muslims in that video. Both sides were wrong; the director for making a "haaahh gay muhammed" video to "promote" free speech, and the Muslims for running up and attacking him.
[editline]21st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=MisterMedia;38127371]TAKE IT OFF THE PROPHET MUHAMMED MUST NOT BE SHOWN BECAUSE IT WOULD RUIN MY IMAGIONATION LIKE READING A BOOX THEN WATCHING A FILM.
TAKE IT OFF
TAKE IT OFF![/QUOTE]
It's not that they get mad when their prophet isn't exactly how they want him to look, it's that the depiction of Muhammed is [i]prohibited[/i]. Like someone said on the previous page, the prophet is beyond comprehension, so trying to convey his appearance is rude and offensive.
I agree with the Muslims that the film was [I]extremely[/I] disrespectful, but they acted like a bunch of angsty 15 year olds. That's the thing I don't understand about these religious nutjobs, whether it be Muslims, Hindus, Christians, etc. But mainly Muslims in this case. They leave their home country because it has been ravaged by religious violence, and the first thing they do when they go into a secular nation? They try to instigate more religious violence. It's stupid, immature, and childish.
The only thing that I find completely disturbing is that people cling to the premise that it's ok to offend someone as long as you invoke freedom of speech.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;38118241]I don't find either side to be really tolerant of each other. Nobody is right here, showing a video clearly intended to offend Muslims is not the right way to talk against Muslim extremists. The people there weren't most likely extremists to begin with, it's a reaction you could get out of showing a video of defacing a Christian church in front of a Christian crowd.
Whether or not is the reaction appropriate, and in most cases it isn't, it's the reaction you'll get, and to not have foreseen it is very naive.[/QUOTE]
Defacing something physical and a digital powerpoint are two totally different things. No, I can't imagine many people would react this way to that picture of The Creation of Adam photoshopped with Garry on it, which is much closer to what Vilks did than real-life vandalism.
[img]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/aug/garry1.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=cccritical;38128563]Defacing something physical and a digital powerpoint are two totally different things. No, I can't imagine many people would react this way to that picture of The Creation of Adam photoshopped with Garry on it, which is much closer to what Vilks did than real-life vandalism.
[img]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/aug/garry1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
[B]How dare you disgrace the holy image of garry!
Off with your head![/B]
[QUOTE=cccritical;38128563]Defacing something physical and a digital powerpoint are two totally different things. No, I can't imagine many people would react this way to that picture of The Creation of Adam photoshopped with Garry on it, which is much closer to what Vilks did than real-life vandalism.
[img]http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/12/aug/garry1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I figured I would veer off the subject for a second and point out an interesting fact.
Michelangelo painted that painting, and surrounded god in a very specific way. You can clearly see he is actually situated in a human brain. Correct proportions and everything.
Just thought that was interesting.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38127530]
A lot of you guys are doing a complete mental 180 about this video, too. [b] If the video was criticizing atheism, transsexualism, or homosexuality in a hateful manner you would probably all blow a fuse just like the Muslims in that video.[/b] Both sides were wrong; the director for making a "haaahh gay muhammed" video to "promote" free speech, and the Muslims for running up and attacking him.
[/QUOTE]
No I wouldn't. I probably would think the guy is a dickhead but I wouldn't rush the stage trying to turn the video off, yell at police officers calling them pigs, start booing someone trying to backup free speech, start chanting madly and then call the guy who made the video gay.
[QUOTE=God dammit;38123763]Never quite understood Islam's tolerances. We let them build mosques here, but we can't build churches in their country?
Does Freedom of Speech to them mean as much as Copyright Infringement to the chinese?[/QUOTE]
Actually most modern Muslim countries allow churches, just no evangelicalism.
If you're an atheist they are an awesome place to live.
-No bullshit politics allowed on TV
-No Christians allowed to annoy you
[editline]23rd October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;38127530]
It's not that they get mad when their prophet isn't exactly how they want him to look, it's that the depiction of Muhammed is [i]prohibited[/i]. Like someone said on the previous page, the prophet is beyond comprehension, so trying to convey his appearance is rude and offensive.[/QUOTE]
It's a good idea to understand why it is prohibited. It's not because the prophet is beyond criticism or anything like that.
It's so people do not idolize the appearance of one individual and think that that is the entire religion.
Most modern muslims I know don't give two fucks about all of these arguments and would sooner ignore this stupid shit.
[editline]23rd October 2012[/editline]
It's also important to note that in my opinion most of the muslims shown in these videos (i.e. the enraged muslim cliches) come from bachakee ass countries which have no real education and their economies are constantly run into the ground by corrupt fucks.
I'm talking about places like:
-Pakistan
-Palestine
-Egypt
-Lebanon
That's the reason they need to immigrate somewhere else, because their own countries are fucked three ways sunday and they aren't strong enough to do anything about it.
Countries like Palestine have sat around trying to play to everyone elses sympathy for 20-30 years, when in reality there are lots of people that hate them; Palestine has had corrupt as fuck governments time and time again, yet they act like their problem is Israel, even if Israel didn't exist Palestine would still be a miserable shitstain of a country. Countries like Egypt have had corrupt as fuck governments for DECADES. In countries like Pakistan, even when they don't have food or water they still sit there whining about politics time and time again.
All of these countries are fucked, and are populated by people who will never change things because they are greedy fucks who want to fuck over as many other people as they can.
Whereas in other countries that have actually done things right, there are muslims who aren't complete idiots in the modern world.
[QUOTE=Behemoth_PT;38124306]That's where you're wrong.
You have no right to offend people. You don't direct to random people on the streets that insert a stereotype you have in your head and say "Your beliefs is stupid, look at this drawings making fun of it" and expect them to behave or not to be angry.
First because it doesn't prove any point, second because you're making a huge unfair generalization.
Let's say I start making paintings of your mother with open legs in degrading pornographic positions, getting gangbanged, bukaked, all kinds of sick shit you may think of. All in the name of art and free speech.
Let's say I crowd an entire amphitheatre and show images of all the present people's mothers at the sound of "Gay bar", insinuating the love you have for your mother is something ridiculous to feel.
Would that make me an artist? And by being an artist, would being an artist confer me green light to start doing such things freely?
Now, we all know Muhamed is not a Mother, and it's kind of a far fetched analogy, however the love Muslims feel for their beliefs is as strong as the love we feel for our parents. Believe me, it is.
And as incomprehensible to the western world as it may be, despite there not being any actual laws and punishments for such behaviours, we have absolutely no right to bash other people's deep beliefs and spiritual connections, be it to a mother or a dead prophet from another culture.[/QUOTE]
I'm offended.
You're going to jail buddy.
[QUOTE=FPChris;38145598]I'm offended.
You're going to jail buddy.[/QUOTE]
You're threatening of jail against such an innocent person offended me.
I'll see you in court.
[QUOTE=Hobo4President;38145884]You're threatening of jail against such an innocent person offended me.
I'll see you in court.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=FPChris;38145598]I'm offended.
You're going to jail buddy.[/QUOTE]
I dislike both of you for reasons I can't explain.
To the chopping blocks with ya.
disgusting from both sides
cops should learn not to throw punches and takedowns so quickly
and the extremists should chill the fuck out [I]​and[/I] leave the country
[QUOTE=SoaringScout;38117322]Any radical/extremist or just occasionally aggressive person like this should not have the freedom to stop films like that from playing. If you can't take criticism, grow up and stop throwing a whiny, childish fit over things that don't even infringe on your rights.[/QUOTE]
Off to make an anti-gay video, and show it at college campuses.
Just saying, making a video to stereotype 1.3 billion people is fucking stupid and unneeded.
[QUOTE=HellSoldier;38146934]disgusting from both sides
cops should learn not to throw punches and takedowns so quickly
and the extremists should chill the fuck out [I]​and[/I] leave the country[/QUOTE]
why leave? if they chill the fuck out there would be no problem.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;38146984]Off to make an anti-gay video, and show it at college campuses.
Just saying, making a video to stereotype 1.3 billion people is fucking stupid and unneeded.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what point you are trying to make in the first half of that post. Are you implying I'll be all offended and act aggressive? Besides, I don't think people supportive of homosexuals would be as aggressive as this. Supporters of homosexuality tend to be nice people that probably wouldn't go picking fights over being offended or pissed off.
Also, that doesn't justify the actions of the people in this video at all. Don't try assuming it does and don't act like the artist had it coming or should have expected this. The year is 2012. People acting this aggressive are unacceptable and childish.
[video=youtube;PDyZkhwD0fs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDyZkhwD0fs[/video]
The yelling part is identical.
Notice how they only asked for it to be stopped at first, until it showed 2 naked men on a bed with their gods face propped over theirs. Call them radical, extremist, what the fuck ever. But if you believe in a god and someone sits you down just to show you some gay guys having sex with your gods face propped over their faces and expects you to be happy about it, then they deserve all the anger you give. There's a difference between freedom of speech and blatant disrespect.
[QUOTE=clc666;38163906]Notice how they only asked for it to be stopped at first, until it showed 2 naked men on a bed with their gods face propped over theirs. Call them radical, extremist, what the fuck ever. But if you believe in a god and someone sits you down just to show you some gay guys having sex with your gods face propped over their faces and expects you to be happy about it, then they deserve all the anger you give. There's a difference between freedom of speech and blatant disrespect.[/QUOTE]
Even so. Blatant disrespect doesn't deserve actual violence. There's a difference in being offended and actually taking action. No one has the right to not be offended. While it may be an asshole thing to intentionally offend people it is even more insane to react violently or aggressively because you can't control your own emotions. People who act like their beliefs should be held above all others at all costs don't deserve to live in a civilized society. You can't have social structure if everyone has to watch what they say and do around others in fear of offending someone else. If something makes you made then voice your opinions about it and why you think it's wrong, don't start throwing punches and attacking people over it. That's how wars start.
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