[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52842831]Much of RLM's problems with Rogue One were just stupid as shit imo. Like how the film was stupid for not explaining things like the Empire or who Tarkin is, or how it used stuff like x wings and star destroyers for fan service and not simply because those were vehicles used during that period. Don't get me wrong, as much as I like the film it does have big problems, but those sure as hell aren't them.[/QUOTE]
Thanks to RLM any time a franchise shows basic continuity I have to put up with a flood of I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW A THING I RECOGNISE.
[QUOTE=Stopper;52840641]Same thing for me. I don't think I've been as bored in a cinema as I was while watching TFA.[/QUOTE]
wow look at how cultured these guys are
[QUOTE=Joazzz;52841555]i think i'll need people to elaborate on what was so apocalyptically horrible about Rogue One
i liked it more than TFA, because at least it recycled familiar elements in a more original way. and maybe because i wanted to see a film set in the Star Wars universe instead of an actual Star Wars film with lightsabers and such.
the start was a bit rocky, i think the early stuff with the cargo pilot up until they actually met him was unnecessary, and since Saw was apparently needed to highlight the more extremist edge of the rebellion, his part in the film should've been handled better. somehow he felt like filler.
so what are the damning parts?[/QUOTE]
As far as I'm concerned I don't think it was [I]terrible[/I], just pretty bland.
I think the importance of it being new and different, etc. were a bit overstated though since it's still a pretty standard action blockbuster (save for the ending maybe). It's still a group of rebels fighting the evil empire, which is perfectly fine and what I expect from a Star Wars movie but them having somewhat different weapons and skills isn't like a game-changer.
[QUOTE=Captain;52841496]As much as I love RLM, the constant annoying fans screeching, "Endless Trash" and "Thing I know!" at almost any movie ever is so grating.
Especially if you ever hint at anything Star Wars related.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was amusing when I watched RLM's Star Wars reviews and noticed virtually every major negative talking point I've been hearing lately come up. Finally I knew why everyone seemed to be saying pretty much the same thing, basically [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1584014&p=52840745&viewfull=1#post52840745]MenteR's post[/url]. He makes a lot of good points, but he's too heavy handed with it and it comes off as a man who is searching for things to prod at. The worst was Rogue One's review where he started complaining about OT weapons and vehicles that appeared in a movie that took place in that timeline. I just know that if Rogue One did not use any OT assets, he would have put up his video criticizing them for leaving out things that would fit. If anything the real fanservice in the new movies is the TIE Fighters in The Force Awakens, because TIE Fighters were supposed to be replaced with TIE Interceptors.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52843519]I thought it was amusing when I watched RLM's Star Wars reviews and noticed virtually every major negative talking point I've been hearing lately come up. Finally I knew why everyone seemed to be saying pretty much the same thing, basically [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1584014&p=52840745&viewfull=1#post52840745]MenteR's post[/url]. He makes a lot of good points, but he's too heavy handed with it and it comes off as a man who is searching for things to prod at. The worst was Rogue One's review where he started complaining about OT weapons and vehicles that appeared in a movie that took place in that timeline. I just know that if Rogue One did not use any OT assets, he would have put up his video criticizing them for leaving out things that would fit. If anything the real fanservice in the new movies is the TIE Fighters in The Force Awakens, because TIE Fighters were supposed to be replaced with TIE Interceptors.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention the fact that there is no other starfighters other than the most iconic ones. No A-Wings, B-Wings, Y-Wings. No TIE Bombers or any other TIEs. Just variants on TIE Fighters. I really hate that.
It's like technology stagnated after Episode 6 in the new canon, wheras in the old lore there was all sorts of cool stuff.
People saying that Rogue One was a heartless callback film clearly didn’t watch A New Hope: The Corporate Remake aka The Force Awakens
i liked TFA, but I wouldn't rate it higher then any of the OT movies other than ROTJ.
Rogue One I'd put higher then both TFA and ROTJ.
[QUOTE=Splarg!;52842841]What? It sounds like people are just saying that it's okay to not have compelling characters in a movie now. Like a big, general audiences movie to boot.
And what does the outcasts banding together thing really have to do with that? Can they not interact in a way that makes you care about them more?[/QUOTE]
I said nothing about how interesting the characters are so not sure where you got that from.(In fact I said chirrut and baze seemed tacked on) You mentioned relationships not what makes the character interesting. What can you tell me about Rey? What makes her an interesting character?
Rogue one was a snore fest during the first half. The later half was a treat though.
Since when did RLM become the only movie critique and if you disagree you're wrong
Its silly, make your own observations, reviews can be both good and bad, if you just blindly follow a reviewer you're just bad at making up your own observations.
The old EU was amazing and the Sun Crusher was hilarious.
Fight me.
I love Star Wars, I just wish they would make movies about the Star Wars universe without the story revolving around (Luke, Darth Vedar/Anikan, Han Solo, Leia, Clones, Emperor Palpatine, Death Star, etc )
Basically, make a new saga.
I've watched like six minutes in and this guy is such a condescending jackass so far jesus
Imagine comparing movies to food and thinking you've said something clever. A large part of why I liked Star Wars in the first place is because the original films do such a fantastic fucking job of introducing you to a [I]world[/I] so well and in such a short timespan. I've seen the argument that 'well original things can still be bad!' Before and it's like, no shit? That doesn't mean originality counts for nothing. I won't go so far as to say that the Prequels were better than TFA, but I'll say that although George showed that he can't handle a story worth a damn when he has absolute control, his universe was stll fairly interesting and other people used the Prequel era to far better effect.
TFA was like the opposite. The story was solid enough, but the universe was so dull and [I]deliberately[/I] uninspired that I couldn't really care. The characters were fine, certainly better than the Prequels- but as soon as they showed the not-death-star I was like 'oh, that's what's happening' and found myself completely checking out because the movie had almost spoiled itself for me.
I guess I could put it this way- Rogue One was a heavily flawed concept of a movie I really wanted to see, TFA was a [I]fine[/I] concept of a movie I had less desire to see. A lot of it does come down to personal preference- not saying you're not allowed to like it, but saying the unoriginality argument somehow doesn't count is just silly.
[QUOTE=Cliff2;52843902]I said nothing about how interesting the characters are so not sure where you got that from.(In fact I said chirrut and baze seemed tacked on) You mentioned relationships not what makes the character interesting. What can you tell me about Rey? What makes her an interesting character?[/QUOTE]
But the way the characters interact is such a critical part of their development, and you can see where they tried to do that in Rogue One but it's flaaaaaaaaaaat. Characters don't get an A+ right when they're introduced. Rey is [sp]the closest analogue for Luke, right? What makes Luke interesting if you take away his arc? [/sp]
We see Rey [sp]sending BB-8 away at first and then eventually giving in despite turning down a shitload of food, her charging like a maniac at Finn when BB-8 tells her he's a bad guy, and then when Finn tells her he's a "resistance fighter" and mentions Luke she gets this look of kid-like fascination, then she gets pissed at Finn for leading her by her hand, then we get an action scene and they do that little bit after where they're amazed at each other's flying/shooting (the kind of stuff you do if you want characters to be friends, so that when Finn says he's leaving it actually means something), and this is all in the first act leading up to meeting Han Solo. Let's jump ahead - what about her relationship with the villain? Her confrontation with Kylo Ren after she gets captured establishes that she's capable of challenging him and shows that there's more to her than meets the eye (which you could have guessed but we still need to show it) and shows Kylo's weakness. Very simple but effective character development.[/sp]
And her emotional range in all of this stuff is way broader than Jyn's. Jyn's most emotional scenes are [sp]when she's watching the Hologram of Galen and when he dies later,[/sp] but the rest of the time she's just doing generic drama face and I can't tell if it's the actor but the script didn't give her much opportunity. Too much of the movie's downtime is people talking about story and not playing off of each other. Go back and look at [sp]Krennic's face when he freaks out at Tarkin after they fire the Death Star on Jedha.[/sp] It's great, exactly the kind of stuff you can use to fill a movie with a darker tone. If they can do that with [sp]villian vs. CGI villian[/sp] surely they can get more out of their main protagonists?
I finished watching it. He has [I]some[/I] fair points. Rey beating Kylo while he's heavily wounded is believable enough (although a staff is a pretty drastically different melee weapon in a lot of ways from a lightsaber, but this is a movie) but no, I'm not sure Luke is comparable to Rey in the shit she can do- at least as far as the force-training stuff. The only force thing we're shown that Luke does without any real practice whatsoever is assisting his own alluded-to Marksmanship at the end of the Trench Run. He isn't great with the lightsaber training robot. In ESB, he has to visibly strain to do a basic force pull after around 2-3 years fighting in the Rebellion and probably having some time to practice with it- and gets defeated by Vader, anyway. In ROTJ he's clearly spent some time training under Yoda, so no shit he's better now.
Rey feels strange because Luke was a good marksman and pilot who needed three movies to become great at Jedi stuff. Rey is an adept mechanic, marksman, lightsaber duelist, pilot and force-wielder in the first movie. Some of that is explained away by her surviving on her own on Jakku for most of her life, but I felt like it could have used a bit more explanation as to how she's this good. Correct me if I'm wrong but Luke isn't shown doing that many crazy maneuvers, I recall the Trench Run mostly being him getting lucky until Han swoops in- nothing like the diving through shipwrecks in TFA. She's somewhere between Anakin and Luke in unexplainable skill.
Also I didn't love TFA and then suddenly reverse my opinion, I've pretty much always thought 'it was pretty okay with a few flaws and I really wish it had been more original'
TFA had a problem where some of the important questions were answered in outside material and not in the movie itself.
Like why is there still a resistance and empire? Its answered in the books and comics, when it shouldn't have been.
If you completely ignore the other 6 movies and treat TFA as its own, it is fine, it gives about as much info as ANH did when it came out.
But it isn't stand alone, its part of a greater universe so that doesn't work here.
[editline]1st November 2017[/editline]
Now regarding Rey and her power
[sp]The trailer for TLJ seems to imply she is just naturally powerful, like Kylo and Anakin[/sp]
[QUOTE=ThePanther;52844317]I love Star Wars, I just wish they would make movies about the Star Wars universe without the story revolving around (Luke, Darth Vedar/Anikan, Han Solo, Leia, Clones, Emperor Palpatine, Death Star, etc )
Basically, make a new saga.[/QUOTE]
The Old Republic days when they get to them is hopefully this.
[QUOTE=redBadger;52844163]Rogue one was a snore fest during the first half. The later half was a treat though.[/QUOTE]
I should probably give it another watch then. I gave up roughly halfway through when Forest Whitaker said he had to stay behind and die honorably for no reason whatsoever.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52845433]I should probably give it another watch then. I gave up roughly halfway through when Forest Whitaker said he had to stay behind and die honorably for no reason whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
You should definitely give it another go. I enjoyed the film as a whole, but it gets much, much better after that point.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52845433]when Forest Whitaker said he had to stay behind and die honorably for no reason whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why people have a problem with this in particular. He's a weary, broken old man, literally on life support by this point. Even if he physically could escape in time, he barely had any desire to keep on going any longer.
[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52844641]I finished watching it. He has [I]some[/I] fair points. Rey beating Kylo while he's heavily wounded is believable enough (although a staff is a pretty drastically different melee weapon in a lot of ways from a lightsaber, but this is a movie) but no, I'm not sure Luke is comparable to Rey in the shit she can do- at least as far as the force-training stuff. The only force thing we're shown that Luke does without any real practice whatsoever is assisting his own alluded-to Marksmanship at the end of the Trench Run. He isn't great with the lightsaber training robot. In ESB, he has to visibly strain to do a basic force pull after around 2-3 years fighting in the Rebellion and probably having some time to practice with it- and gets defeated by Vader, anyway. In ROTJ he's clearly spent some time training under Yoda, so no shit he's better now.
Rey feels strange because Luke was a good marksman and pilot who needed three movies to become great at Jedi stuff. Rey is an adept mechanic, marksman, lightsaber duelist, pilot and force-wielder in the first movie. Some of that is explained away by her surviving on her own on Jakku for most of her life, but I felt like it could have used a bit more explanation as to how she's this good. Correct me if I'm wrong but Luke isn't shown doing that many crazy maneuvers, I recall the Trench Run mostly being him getting lucky until Han swoops in- nothing like the diving through shipwrecks in TFA. She's somewhere between Anakin and Luke in unexplainable skill.
Also I didn't love TFA and then suddenly reverse my opinion, I've pretty much always thought 'it was pretty okay with a few flaws and I really wish it had been more original'[/QUOTE]
There's a bit very early on where Rey reaches into a small hole to grab something. I always though they should have had it be just out of her reach and when she tries to reach further it moves toward her. Since she's clearly meant to be a natural with the Force they should have had her unknowingly use it a couple of times.
[QUOTE=Ignhelper;52844252]Since when did RLM become the only movie critique and if you disagree you're wrong
Its silly, make your own observations, reviews can be both good and bad, if you just blindly follow a reviewer you're just bad at making up your own observations.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand why people view Mike "Space Cop" Stoklasa as if he has the right opinion on all movies.
Dude doesn't even have a taste, he just shits on things. The few times he likes things are when he says they're 'alright'.
[QUOTE=Tuskin;52845157]TFA had a problem where some of the important questions were answered in outside material and not in the movie itself.
Like why is there still a resistance and empire? Its answered in the books and comics, when it shouldn't have been.
If you completely ignore the other 6 movies and treat TFA as its own, it is fine, it gives about as much info as ANH did when it came out.
But it isn't stand alone, its part of a greater universe so that doesn't work here.
[editline]1st November 2017[/editline]
Now regarding Rey and her power
[sp]The trailer for TLJ seems to imply she is just naturally powerful, like Kylo and Anakin[/sp][/QUOTE]
Motherfucking midichlorians.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52845433]I should probably give it another watch then. I gave up roughly halfway through when Forest Whitaker said he had to stay behind and die honorably for no reason whatsoever.[/QUOTE]
[sp]He's staying behind because he's giving up thanks to the revelation that his entire crusade was pointless. How is this hard to grasp?[/sp]
I thought TFA was a smart, safe way to get into the Star Wars saddle without falling prey to OT syndrome, so I can't blame them too much. My only real complaint about it was the world building was horrible. It's like they needed to contort the story into having peppy good guy underdogs vs the evil empire, even when the evil empire is a rump state reduced to a fraction of its former self after. The equivalent of TFA would be Hitler getting reduced to Berlin, but somehow developing a super-hydrogen bomb and nuking a continent in revenge. It's nitpicky, but I think these things are important for a film like Star Wars.
I really liked Rogue One, despite being unable to remember any of the character's names. I thought the story could have been improved, but I love how they focused on regular Joe Schmoes rather than the heroes. It's refreshing to see main characters actually risk dying, rather than knowing they'll miraculously achieve their goal and survive for the next film. I also loved how they treated the force and light sabers by using them sparingly but effectively.
IIRC, Rogue One, originally they were going to die, but was re-written because they didn't think LucasFilm would let them kill them off, and then at one of the story meetings someone from LucasFilm brought it up as an idea.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52840281]calling it a bad movie is being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian
its not a great movie but its still enjoyable[/QUOTE]
I honestly found it boring as all hell because I felt like I was just watching an inferior version of ANH which is pretty much a top movie sin for me. I can tolerate bad sometimes if it's at least entertainingly bad, but boring not so much.
[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52845611]I don't understand why people have a problem with this in particular. He's a weary, broken old man, literally on life support by this point. Even if he physically could escape in time, he barely had any desire to keep on going any longer.[/QUOTE]
It was just the straw that broke the back door me, I was already thoroughly uninterested in the film for the entire rest of the time. I must've missed that somehow but still.
From the moment I left the move theater I felt as if the plot to Star Wars 7 was cliche and ripped off from the first one. Yes it's the safest move all things considered and it's going to make money but long term it's not healthy for the franchise to constantly take from a single source over and over. Even Mario and Pokemon innovates over time with new mechanics and design.
While not the same by far The Force Awakens didn't really bring anything new, and in fact I consider Episode Four to still be better in any aspect. Even if Star Wars took ideas from the Hero's Journey and older films they were not applied in such a manner. Sure the newer movie may have better cinematography, effects, vistas, and a whole lot of stuff but at the story is utterly predictable and takes absolutely no risks whatsoever. A protagonist (Rey) who cannot lose, a cliche villain (Snoke) and a plot twist that could have been shocking decades ago. To call these same beats references or callbacks is wrong when the entire story is a callback.
Sure the Prequel Trilogy is a mixed back with a great deal of flaws but at the very least it tried to be something different which is respectable in my book.
TFA was decent, but it wasn't amazing either. Honestly Rey ruins a lot of it for me. The best part of that movie was when Finn fought Kylo Ren, but when Rey took over I lost interest. I hope they make Finn the real main Jedi, and Rey the false protagonist. It would be interesting for Rey to die in the next movie.
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