• It’s OK to like The Force Awakens
    111 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Speedhax;52846642]TFA was decent, but it wasn't amazing either. Honestly Rey ruins a lot of it for me. The best part of that movie was when Finn fought Kylo Ren, but when Rey took over I lost interest. I hope they make Finn the real main Jedi, and Rey the false protagonist. It would be interesting for Rey to die in the next movie.[/QUOTE] I liked the Finn parts because ordinary people standing up to the extraordinary is cool. When you have a protagonist that is destined to win it takes all the fun out of action.
Thats part of what made Rogue One so much better than Force Awakens for me is that, aside from the monk who was simply force sensitive and not even a Jedi, everyone else was a normal person. You've got a spy, an ex-terrorist/thief, a pilot, and so on. They felt more human than most Star Wars characters and I found myself more interested in them because they didn't have super-powers and a magic sword. Finn was cool in that regard too, he felt more human than most Star Wars characters.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52846683]Thats part of what made Rogue One so much better than Force Awakens for me is that, aside from the monk who was simply force sensitive and not even a Jedi, everyone else was a normal person. You've got a spy, an ex-terrorist/thief, a pilot, and so on. They felt more human than most Star Wars characters and I found myself more interested in them because they didn't have super-powers and a magic sword. Finn was cool in that regard too, he felt more human than most Star Wars characters.[/QUOTE] I found Finn to be half baked, his character arc was pretty cool at first but got thrown away once he did the obvious 180 to be a super good guy forever.
[QUOTE=thepwnwar;52846689]I found Finn to be half baked, his character arc was pretty cool at first but got thrown away once he did the obvious 180 to be a super good guy forever.[/QUOTE] It weirded me out that he was super okay with and even seemed to be having a good time massacring those guys in the hangar with Poe. Shit Finn you probably grew up with these guys
Yeah, he had issues, but at least by virtue of him having been a Storm Trooper and part of the First Order, he was a bit more compelling. I really hope they do a bit more with him and give him more character as opposed to just making him generic hero good guy.
I like TFA purely because Kylo Ren is exactly how Anakin Skywalker should have been in the prequels. A guy who throws tantrums which actually causes him to become less in tune with the force and make mistakes and lose his focus so he can't use the force very well, and then starts beating on his wounds to cause himself pain to try and tune into the dark side. Anakin in the prequels was just whiny
[QUOTE=Splarg!;52844493]But the way the characters interact is such a critical part of their development, and you can see where they tried to do that in Rogue One but it's flaaaaaaaaaaat. Characters don't get an A+ right when they're introduced. Rey is [sp]the closest analogue for Luke, right? What makes Luke interesting if you take away his arc? [/sp] We see Rey [sp]sending BB-8 away at first and then eventually giving in despite turning down a shitload of food, her charging like a maniac at Finn when BB-8 tells her he's a bad guy, and then when Finn tells her he's a "resistance fighter" and mentions Luke she gets this look of kid-like fascination, then she gets pissed at Finn for leading her by her hand, then we get an action scene and they do that little bit after where they're amazed at each other's flying/shooting (the kind of stuff you do if you want characters to be friends, so that when Finn says he's leaving it actually means something), and this is all in the first act leading up to meeting Han Solo. Let's jump ahead - what about her relationship with the villain? Her confrontation with Kylo Ren after she gets captured establishes that she's capable of challenging him and shows that there's more to her than meets the eye (which you could have guessed but we still need to show it) and shows Kylo's weakness. Very simple but effective character development.[/sp] And her emotional range in all of this stuff is way broader than Jyn's. Jyn's most emotional scenes are [sp]when she's watching the Hologram of Galen and when he dies later,[/sp] but the rest of the time she's just doing generic drama face and I can't tell if it's the actor but the script didn't give her much opportunity. Too much of the movie's downtime is people talking about story and not playing off of each other. Go back and look at [sp]Krennic's face when he freaks out at Tarkin after they fire the Death Star on Jedha.[/sp] It's great, exactly the kind of stuff you can use to fill a movie with a darker tone. If they can do that with [sp]villian vs. CGI villian[/sp] surely they can get more out of their main protagonists?[/QUOTE] I mean if all that was important to a character was relationships, Cast Away and Moon wouldn't be as highly regarded as they are. And you still haven't answered what makes Rey interesting. In that entire spoiler paragraph, they're typical hero character tropes except made worse because [sp]succeeding at every hardship isn't an interesting character trait. Even Luke needed Obi-Wan, Han and Leia to back him up. Finn helps her a bit in Ren's fight but is unsuccessful so Rey has to fix everything again. In Ep 4, Obiwan has to protect luke from Tuskans and Vader. And Han defeats Vader to give Luke his shot at the death star. And Leia saves Luke in Strikes Back. There's barely any relationship between Rey and Ren in the movie either. Having a character that is strong is not the same as having a strong character. It's hard to sympathize with a character that doesn't have to work to do anything.[/sp] And then there's Rogue One which after the opening sequence [sp]you have the co protagonist murdering his contact to save his own(And the republic's) skin. Jyn loses her family and after being raised by radicals and abandoned becomes a criminal herself to survive. Rey is abandoned on a desert planet as a child and never loses her upstanding morals. Both Jyn and Cassian have to learn to work together throughout the movie. But they both NEED each other to succeed. When it comes down to each situation, especially in the end, all of them are playing a pivotal role. Rey never felt like she needed Finn for anything. Or Han. And Poe had barely any story to him at all.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Blueleaf;52845611]I don't understand why people have a problem with this in particular. He's a weary, broken old man, literally on life support by this point. Even if he physically could escape in time, he barely had any desire to keep on going any longer.[/QUOTE] He'd also be escaping on a ship that's going straight to Rebel HQ, where everyone thought he was a dangerous extremist. He'd probably be interrogated and locked in a cell for the rest of his life.
[QUOTE=MenteR;52840498]tbh the only thing that really pissed me off was the giant planet sized death star. if they did something else i'd be way cooler with the film. its still an ok film but eh i wouldn't rewatch it. [editline]31st October 2017[/editline] the first half is very solid though.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this. I mean, this is supposed to be [sp]the Empire reborn, the phoenix rising from the ashes, right? ...so let's do exactly what my grandfather did [I]with exactly the same design flaws[/I][/sp] Maybe it's better that Luke wasn't in this film that way he wouldn't have laughed at Kylo Ren in his face. Also yeah, Mark Hamill made some good points regarding Luke Skywalker's absence and a huge slew of missed opportunities there. Other than that I shit myself in excitement the whole movie. Rey and Finn are honestly huge fuckin badasses and I'm glad they didn't make each other love interests (even going as far to subtly hint at homosexuality in Finn and that other guy which didn't feel too forced or out of place).
[QUOTE=KingKombat;52858265][sp]...so let's do exactly what my grandfather did [I]with exactly the same design flaws[/I][/sp][/QUOTE] [sp]To be fair to Starkiller Base, it wasn't actually as flawed as the Death Star was - it just took a shitload of contrivances to make it vulnerable. The entire base was supposed to be shielded from fighter attack, the TIE squadrons were immediately sent out the moment they saw the Resistance fighters break through, the actual weak spot was heavily armored to the point of being near-impervious to outside attack, and even then if it wasn't fully fuelled with star energy when it got blown up it would only have disabled the weapon instead of taking out the entire base. Hell, Starkiller actually succeeded in its main goal - obliterating the New Republic capital, decapitating their leadership and throwing the galaxy into chaos. If it wasn't for the Resistance they would have straight up won then and there.[/sp] [editline].[/editline] [sp]Though that said, "To be fair to Starkiller Base" was not something I was expecting to say anytime soon.[/sp]
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